My Fellow Catholics Please Help Me To Understand

[Anonymous]

Maybe you should research the Protestant Reformation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As some background, I was raised Catholic and grew up in a *very* Catholic family.
Went to Catholic school from preschool through college, and overall my experience was actually amazing. Some of the most brilliant, strong, inspirational women I know are Catholic nuns. My education was amazing, and very much focused on love and social justice.
All of which is to demonstrate that I'm not a rabid anti-Catholic poster, nor am I someone who hated being Catholic growing up. I very much value what Catholicism gave me.
However... now that I have kids, I started to be concerned about some things. What would they learn in CCD about families? About the inherent worth and dignity of each person? About their value as women? And yes - the abuse scandal was in the back of my mind too.

So I spent several months researching other religions, visit other churches, really praying a lot.
And about a year ago, we became Episcopalian and haven't looked back.
In many ways it feels the same. Same words (and includes "and also with you!" and not the new "spirit" stuff!), similar sense of granduer and ceremony. But in other ways, it's like I've finally found "home" I don't need to compartmentalize like I always had to as a Catholic. I don't need to worry about what my kids will be taught at Sunday school. And - bonus! - my kids actually love going to Sunday school now!

All of which is to say... maybe your discomfort right now is really a calling to explore another way to worship. Check it out. Do some research. Say some prayers. Find a place where you feel whole.

Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà.

[Anonymous]

"Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà" is Italian for "outside the church, you won't be saved."

I'm guessing that pp is saying that switching to the Episcopal Church means going to hell --- if you take old italian sayings seriously, that is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà" is Italian for "outside the church, you won't be saved."

I'm guessing that pp is saying that switching to the Episcopal Church means going to hell --- if you take old italian sayings seriously, that is.

Hard to see how hell would be the punishment for rejecting an organization that facilitated child sex abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà" is Italian for "outside the church, you won't be saved."

I'm guessing that pp is saying that switching to the Episcopal Church means going to hell --- if you take old italian sayings seriously, that is.

The Pope disagrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà" is Italian for "outside the church, you won't be saved."

I'm guessing that pp is saying that switching to the Episcopal Church means going to hell --- if you take old italian sayings seriously, that is.

Hard to see how hell would be the punishment for rejecting an organization that facilitated child sex abuse.

This kind of saved/not-saved type of mentality is why I can't inflict this belief system on my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà" is Italian for "outside the church, you won't be saved."

I'm guessing that pp is saying that switching to the Episcopal Church means going to hell --- if you take old italian sayings seriously, that is.

Hard to see how hell would be the punishment for rejecting an organization that facilitated child sex abuse.

This kind of saved/not-saved type of mentality is why I can't inflict this belief system on my kids.

Except it's not a Catholic belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà" is Italian for "outside the church, you won't be saved."

I'm guessing that pp is saying that switching to the Episcopal Church means going to hell --- if you take old italian sayings seriously, that is.

Hard to see how hell would be the punishment for rejecting an organization that facilitated child sex abuse.

This kind of saved/not-saved type of mentality is why I can't inflict this belief system on my kids.

Except it's not a Catholic belief.

Salvation through belief that christ died for our sins (substitutionary atonement) is definitely a catholic belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà" is Italian for "outside the church, you won't be saved."

I'm guessing that pp is saying that switching to the Episcopal Church means going to hell --- if you take old italian sayings seriously, that is.

The Pope disagrees.

I doubt the Pope has actively taken a stand on Episcopal beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà" is Italian for "outside the church, you won't be saved."

I'm guessing that pp is saying that switching to the Episcopal Church means going to hell --- if you take old italian sayings seriously, that is.

Hard to see how hell would be the punishment for rejecting an organization that facilitated child sex abuse.

This kind of saved/not-saved type of mentality is why I can't inflict this belief system on my kids.

Except it's not a Catholic belief.

Yes it is. Non-Catholics aren't going to heaven. My Mother wept when I became an Episcopalian. She thinks I'm going to hell. Or Purgatory. Or Limbo. Or whatever new afterlife the Catholic Church has come up with this week that is not in the bible.

[Anonymous]

The concept of salvation is alive and well in various Christian denominations, e.g.,:

- Catholics achieve salvation by having their soul cleansed via confession, receiving holy communion and/or last rites.

- Evangelical protestants are saved by feeling Jesus enter their heart.

- Universalists believe everyone is saved (i.e., goes to heaven when they die).
Actually many Unitarian Universalists don't believe in salvation and don't necessarily think of themselves as Christian, but the original concept of their religion was "Salvation for all" - no intervention needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà" is Italian for "outside the church, you won't be saved."

I'm guessing that pp is saying that switching to the Episcopal Church means going to hell --- if you take old italian sayings seriously, that is.

Hard to see how hell would be the punishment for rejecting an organization that facilitated child sex abuse.

This kind of saved/not-saved type of mentality is why I can't inflict this belief system on my kids.

Except it's not a Catholic belief.

Salvation through belief that christ died for our sins (substitutionary atonement) is definitely a catholic belief.

Nope. Catholics do *not* believe in salvation through faith alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Fuori della Chiesa non si salverà" is Italian for "outside the church, you won't be saved."

I'm guessing that pp is saying that switching to the Episcopal Church means going to hell --- if you take old italian sayings seriously, that is.

Hard to see how hell would be the punishment for rejecting an organization that facilitated child sex abuse.

This kind of saved/not-saved type of mentality is why I can't inflict this belief system on my kids.

Except it's not a Catholic belief.

Salvation through belief that christ died for our sins (substitutionary atonement) is definitely a catholic belief.

Nope. Catholics do *not* believe in salvation through faith alone.

While you are correct that salvation for catholics does not come through faith alone, Salvation is in fact a central catholic principle. For Catholics, gaining salvation is a different process than it is for protestants. Catholics also have to follow all the catholic rules and (usually) spend some time in Purgatory.

But Catholics absolutely DO believe in Salvation thanks to Christ dying for our sins.

[Anonymous]

So OP -- what do you gathter after all this input? Staying with the church or moving on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, I'm not a troll or an angry atheist. I'm a life long Catholic trying to understand why do I remain in the Catholic church. All the recent articles and documentaries about the rampant sexual abuse within the church really upsets me. I'm saddened and hurt whenever I come across an article about clergy abusing a child. I spent years working as a child advocate and a crisis counselor dealing with abused children. However, I feel like a hypocrite because I support an institution which covers up the abuse of children. If you're Catholic, then help me understand why do you continually support the church? Why isn't there pressure put on the church to punished clergy who abuse children? Why isn't there pressure to reconcile with victims who have been abused by clergy? It seems like this topic is often times push under the rug when I'm in the company of other Catholics. Us Catholics come together for numerous issues (abortion, poverty, immigration, etc.) However, when it comes to clergy abuse its like silence. No one wants to touch this issue. The Vatican is so powerful that even our government, The Supreme Court, and folks in Congress are afraid to touch this issue. We can hunt down Bin Laden, but we can't prosecute or find pedophile priests? Our government can go head to toe with some of the most vile criminals or terrorists around the world, but we can't prosecute pedophile priests? We can nuke places off the face of the earth, but we can't prosecute pedophile priests? Even when I try to discuss this issue with some of the priests that I know they become extremely uncomfortable and try to change the subject. I was looking at the crowd during the Walk For Life March this year. I was wondering, "It will be great to see a crowd like this to stand up against clergy abuse here at home around the world. A March Against Clergy Abuse, raising money for victim's legal fees and therapy would be great!" I'm at a lost for words and my heart is truly broke. I even told my husband today that, "I'm not sure if I want to remain Catholic because the Vatican creates a safety bubble for clergy who abuse children." Many of the monsters who have abused children are hiding out with the comforts of retirement. While their victims have yet to get justice and families of deceased love ones are still waiting for justice. Does this upset you as a Catholic? Does it make you angry with God or the church? Help me understand how can many of us (myself included) support the Catholic Church?

I'm at a crossroads here. To leave the Catholic faith equates to rejecting my family, my friends, my culture, my customs, and everything that makes me who I am as a person. I love being a Catholic. It has shaped me into the person that I am today. However, the child abuse issue is not something that I can tolerate or remain silent about. I'm not sure if anyone else has felt this way or not. If you have felt this way, did you leave the church or did you choose to stay?

My fellow Catholic.

When reading the Bible, did you ever notice something called a paragraph?

Organize your thinking first, and then your life may follow.