is THIS really what it takes for non-hooked kids to get into HYPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The state of college admissions today is quite shocking to me. I graduated high school in 2000, and I got accepted at some really impressive schools and so did my peers. My niece graduates from that same high school in a few weeks. Her GPA is higher than mine was PLUS she captained a Varsity team (I did not play a sport, nor did I hold a leadership position in any of my extracurricular clubs). She was rejected from schools in our home state that my friends and I scoffed at. I just can't believe the difference.

I don't understand what drives this phenomenon? Why is it so much harder today than 20 or even 10 years ago? (if it is harder).

More students attending college and few new college seats have been created (it isn't like a school district that builds a new high school when its first one is full). Also more students from other countries attending universities in the US now than 20-30 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This profile isn't all that different from 20 years ago. When I got into H I had:
* 3 sports, captain in one, multiple year coach's award in another
* Major statewide competition winner 2 years running
* President of National Honor Society
* Class president
* Don't remember GPA, but it was good
* SAT: 800 V, 690 M, 800 W
* Founder of one school club, officer in others

The only thing I don't remember was counting community service hours. That seems new to me. Although if it had been a thing, I would have had a lot.

I know that admissions for HYPS+ have become somewhat more competitive. But I don't buy that it's an order of magnitude difference, or that "the profile" is an unreasonable or superhuman ask.

Wow, that's a crappy math score.

Feel better now?

The old SATs were much more difficult than the current ones. At some point the test was redesigned to forgo differentiation at the top. I had a 750 on math which was excellent at the time. I have heard the comparison that a score of 720 on the math SAT in the 1980's was equivalent to an 800 in the 2000's.

NP here. It speaks volumes that you're still obsessing over your SAT score, when presumably, that was decades in the past.

[Anonymous]

Some of these kids really seem amazing. I guess everyone has different priorities, but to be so focused on a particular school or type of school (ivy league) is something I have never seen outside of DCUM, and I have lawyer and investment banker friends.

Do most of these kids do these things (volunteer, etc) because they think it will help them with college admissions, or is it something that they are genuinely interested in? I'm sure it takes a lot of hard work and a family structure that is very solid/focused.

[Anonymous]

It's just supply and demand. When you have 10 students applying for each available slot, and most of those students are highly competitive, the schools are going to be in a position to be extraordinarily picky.

The real problem is that so many parents are apparently obsessed over getting their child into an ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This profile isn't all that different from 20 years ago. When I got into H I had:
* 3 sports, captain in one, multiple year coach's award in another
* Major statewide competition winner 2 years running
* President of National Honor Society
* Class president
* Don't remember GPA, but it was good
* SAT: 800 V, 690 M, 800 W
* Founder of one school club, officer in others

The only thing I don't remember was counting community service hours. That seems new to me. Although if it had been a thing, I would have had a lot.

I know that admissions for HYPS+ have become somewhat more competitive. But I don't buy that it's an order of magnitude difference, or that "the profile" is an unreasonable or superhuman ask.

Wow, that's a crappy math score.

Not pp, but a while back someone posted a chart that compared SAT scores from 20-30 years ago to now. They've changed the grading scales several times, but the bottom line is that SAT scores have also had "grade inflation." It really made me feel better when I say that my scores, which would be considered on the high end of average now, were actually pretty excellent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jesus. Just give it up. Nobody is entitled to go to Harvard, and your kid will be fine wherever they go, unless you inculcate them with your status obsession and resentment.

+1. NOBODY is entitled, hooked or unhooked.

[Anonymous]

Oh, it's different today (alum who graduated almost 20 years ago and who interviewed until recently).

Your profile was top 10% of the student body. That left many spots for slightly less impressive but still quite talented kids.

Today your profile is middle of the pack. The space available for the slightly less impressive but still quite talented kids has shrunk enormously.

Part of it has to do with demographic changes and a growing population but not a growing number of colleges. Part of it has to do with the much greater % of international students on campus, reducing the space available for domestic applicants. Greater emphasis on diversity and racial quotas comes at the expense of "normal" white applicants.

Anonymous wrote:This profile isn't all that different from 20 years ago. When I got into H I had:
* 3 sports, captain in one, multiple year coach's award in another
* Major statewide competition winner 2 years running
* President of National Honor Society
* Class president
* Don't remember GPA, but it was good
* SAT: 800 V, 690 M, 800 W
* Founder of one school club, officer in others

The only thing I don't remember was counting community service hours. That seems new to me. Although if it had been a thing, I would have had a lot.

I know that admissions for HYPS+ have become somewhat more competitive. But I don't buy that it's an order of magnitude difference, or that "the profile" is an unreasonable or superhuman ask.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of these kids really seem amazing. I guess everyone has different priorities, but to be so focused on a particular school or type of school (ivy league) is something I have never seen outside of DCUM, and I have lawyer and investment banker friends.

Do most of these kids do these things (volunteer, etc) because they think it will help them with college admissions, or is it something that they are genuinely interested in? I'm sure it takes a lot of hard work and a family structure that is very solid/focused.

My 8th grade girl spends about 4 hours a week at the local elementary school volunteering in a kindergarten class and all day Saturday and Sunday at a pet rescue organization because she genuinely loves it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The state of college admissions today is quite shocking to me. I graduated high school in 2000, and I got accepted at some really impressive schools and so did my peers. My niece graduates from that same high school in a few weeks. Her GPA is higher than mine was PLUS she captained a Varsity team (I did not play a sport, nor did I hold a leadership position in any of my extracurricular clubs). She was rejected from schools in our home state that my friends and I scoffed at. I just can't believe the difference.

I don't understand what drives this phenomenon? Why is it so much harder today than 20 or even 10 years ago? (if it is harder).

More students attending college and few new college seats have been created (it isn't like a school district that builds a new high school when its first one is full). Also more students from other countries attending universities in the US now than 20-30 years ago.

but these new domestic students are in most cases marginal students, not the best ones. the number of harvards, yales etc. has remained the same.

did the proportion of international students increase dramatically?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of these kids really seem amazing. I guess everyone has different priorities, but to be so focused on a particular school or type of school (ivy league) is something I have never seen outside of DCUM, and I have lawyer and investment banker friends.

Do most of these kids do these things (volunteer, etc) because they think it will help them with college admissions, or is it something that they are genuinely interested in? I'm sure it takes a lot of hard work and a family structure that is very solid/focused.

DD (senior) volunteered at a summer camp for children with special needs last summer and had such a wonderful time. She said the experience changed her life. She's going back this summer despite not needing volunteer hours for anything after graduating. She just loves it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, it's different today (alum who graduated almost 20 years ago and who interviewed until recently).

Your profile was top 10% of the student body. That left many spots for slightly less impressive but still quite talented kids.

Today your profile is middle of the pack. The space available for the slightly less impressive but still quite talented kids has shrunk enormously.

Part of it has to do with demographic changes and a growing population but not a growing number of colleges. Part of it has to do with the much greater % of international students on campus, reducing the space available for domestic applicants. Greater emphasis on diversity and racial quotas comes at the expense of "normal" white applicants.

Anonymous wrote:

This is it. Schools like Harvard can be incredibly picky and so they are. It's not primarily about being a great student. If you're not a legacy you need to bring something unusual to the table for admission. This might be URM or international status, or it might be low SES or an unusual story of challenge or disability. Just being a straight A white kid from the suburbs with perfect SATs isn't going to cut it. Which means it's almost not worth worrying about a HYP admission for many kids, which is actually a good thing because there're are some many other great colleges out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child has a profile that is close to that but he does not have straight As (3.7) or high SAT ... He is dyslexic, he won't even get accepted to UMD.

PlAys instrument
Hundreds of volunteer hours because he enjoys it starting in 6th
Plays on 2 sports teams at the highest level, always captain
Helped raise $200k with his friend that has cancer
Created his own company
Clubs
Knows sign language
Has worked a summer job since he was in 6th grade
Is a soccer referee

He does these things because he likes them. He will go somewhere good enough and be fine.

Why do you think your son will not get into UMD because he has dyslexia? My DC with dyslexia was admitted to the UMD-CP Honors College this year.

His verbal SAT is too low. His counselor said its not probable. He has all Bs in English.

What was your child's GPA/SAT.

NP. What about the Johns Hopkins program? It is set up specifically for students with LDs. Presumably dyslexia would count.

The CTY program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child has a profile that is close to that but he does not have straight As (3.7) or high SAT ... He is dyslexic, he won't even get accepted to UMD.

PlAys instrument
Hundreds of volunteer hours because he enjoys it starting in 6th
Plays on 2 sports teams at the highest level, always captain
Helped raise $200k with his friend that has cancer
Created his own company
Clubs
Knows sign language
Has worked a summer job since he was in 6th grade
Is a soccer referee

He does these things because he likes them. He will go somewhere good enough and be fine.

I'm a professor at UMD and think your child sounds awesome. Love students like your son that excel despite a disability. More likely to work hard in college. I hope your son writes about all he has accomplished with dyslexia for his college essays!

Thanks... between the dyslexia and his dad's PTSD, yea... we have essay material.

Love UMD, I graduated with a degree in Math (ends up I am dyslexic too).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a local kid headed to Harvard in the fall. I'm not going to list his credentials because it would be extremely easy to figure out who he is, and I don't think it is particularly kind to splash a child's details all over the internet.

With all of that said, he absolutely deserves it and nothing he has accomplished is impossible for other kids to take on. It took a lot of hard work on both his part and his parents' but he earned every bit of it, and so could anyone else willing to put in those kind of hours.

EXACTLY what I was getting at. It really comes down to sustained hard work over 4-6 years. It seems nuts to some but nuts to me is letting your kids play video games and pretending a travel sport (your kid isn't very good at in the first place) dominate all their free time.

Obviously not everyone's kid can get into HYPS but if you actually follow this template your kid will end up at a top 25 college or earn a full ride merit award to somewhere respectable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child has a profile that is close to that but he does not have straight As (3.7) or high SAT ... He is dyslexic, he won't even get accepted to UMD.

PlAys instrument
Hundreds of volunteer hours because he enjoys it starting in 6th
Plays on 2 sports teams at the highest level, always captain
Helped raise $200k with his friend that has cancer
Created his own company
Clubs
Knows sign language
Has worked a summer job since he was in 6th grade
Is a soccer referee

He does these things because he likes them. He will go somewhere good enough and be fine.

Why do you think your son will not get into UMD because he has dyslexia? My DC with dyslexia was admitted to the UMD-CP Honors College this year.

His verbal SAT is too low. His counselor said its not probable. He has all Bs in English.

What was your child's GPA/SAT.

I read your post incorrectly. I thought you were linking your child's dyslexia to the reason he would not be admitted. What accommodations does your child have?

Extra time for tests. Also, test should be short answer and essay with oral followup, no matching or multiple choice.