Gender/non binary question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to admit it... I wasn't up to date on the non-binary culture until recently when my daughter's classmate came over to work on a project and beforehand my daughter said, "mom, just so you know, Alex is non-binary." I had to do some quick Googling even after she explained it to me and really think about what I was going to say before I said anything out loud. I did slip once with "do you guys need a snack?" and I got the Teen Eyeroll of Doom from my kid.

But now that I've learned about non-binary, I do see it more and more around me. During a college visit, many of the kids introducing themselves in the small tour group started with, "I'm Jane, I go by she/her" and "I'm Paul, they/them, please."

Why are you letting a teenager to dictate to you how to use English language?

If your teen decides to ride in the car naked for example, will you go along with that? Just because they feel like that it doesn't mean that you have to change your language, values, manners, etc. If the teen doesn't feel comfortable when you call Alex by her or his gender, then he or she has a choice not to come to your house. I would never bend to the teens' crap.

Nobody cares what you think, Granny.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, gender identity as it is being used now misuses male and female.

Truth is, it is about masculinity and femininity and how you view yourself or express yourself.

As for non binary, think of a person who really doesn't care about being masculine or feminine, or doesn't fit a mold. Honestly, I think everyone is different and doesn't fit a mold, but it doesn't change the biological sex that we are.

I think it's kind of crazy how much emphasis is being placed on gender spectrum and non binary fluidity and all the sort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a "dead name"?

"Deadname" is the term for the original name of a transgender person pre-transition. For example, Caitlyn Jenner's "deadname" is Bruce. It's called a deadname because it represents a painful portion of the transitioned person's past.

Using someone's "deadname" could be harmful because by referencing a trans person's former name in front of someone who doesn't know they're trans, you're outing them. But beyond that, activists say it is harmful to use a person's former name in any context. To return the the Caitlyn Jenner reference, activists also say that articles about Jenner should not use the phrase "formerly known as Bruce Jenner," or anything along those lines. The name Bruce should never be referred to again. For example, some say that when Jenner first publicly announced that Caitlyn would be her new name, articles should not have said "Caitlyn Jenner, Formerly Bruce, Introduces Herself." It should have only been "Transgender Olympian Announces New Name," with no mention of "Bruce" anywhere in the article or headline.

Caitlyn Jenner, by the way, doesn't agree with this- in her recent memoir, she says that Bruce existed for 65 years and she won't erase that. It's an individual thing, I suppose. But the activists say it should never be used.

Recently, there was controversy over an article published in the feminist philosophy journal Hypatia for this very thing. Because the writer, a philosophy professor, mentioned that Caitlyn Jenner was previously known as Bruce, there was a (successful) petition created to get the article removed, accusing the author of violence, deadnaming, and transphobia. The article was retracted and an apology was issued by the journal. An article on the controversy from New York magazine: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/transracialism-article-controversy.html

I know we are supposed to pretend not to know, but most trans people do not need to be "outed".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a "dead name"?

"Deadname" is the term for the original name of a transgender person pre-transition. For example, Caitlyn Jenner's "deadname" is Bruce. It's called a deadname because it represents a painful portion of the transitioned person's past.

Using someone's "deadname" could be harmful because by referencing a trans person's former name in front of someone who doesn't know they're trans, you're outing them. But beyond that, activists say it is harmful to use a person's former name in any context. To return the the Caitlyn Jenner reference, activists also say that articles about Jenner should not use the phrase "formerly known as Bruce Jenner," or anything along those lines. The name Bruce should never be referred to again. For example, some say that when Jenner first publicly announced that Caitlyn would be her new name, articles should not have said "Caitlyn Jenner, Formerly Bruce, Introduces Herself." It should have only been "Transgender Olympian Announces New Name," with no mention of "Bruce" anywhere in the article or headline.

Caitlyn Jenner, by the way, doesn't agree with this- in her recent memoir, she says that Bruce existed for 65 years and she won't erase that. It's an individual thing, I suppose. But the activists say it should never be used.

Recently, there was controversy over an article published in the feminist philosophy journal Hypatia for this very thing. Because the writer, a philosophy professor, mentioned that Caitlyn Jenner was previously known as Bruce, there was a (successful) petition created to get the article removed, accusing the author of violence, deadnaming, and transphobia. The article was retracted and an apology was issued by the journal. An article on the controversy from New York magazine: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/transracialism-article-controversy.html

I know we are supposed to pretend not to know, but most trans people do not need to be "outed".

+1. No kidding. Especially the men pretending to be women.
And the bolded part. Calling someone by their birth name is violence?! Jesus Christ, it proves these snowflakes are out of their minds.

[Anonymous]

forget about Jenner. If I legally change my name for any reason and you refuse to use it after being told, isn't that pretty obnoxious? In the sports world, Mohamed Ali didn't like being called Cassius Clay, and I'd bet most people under 50 don't know that Kareem Abdul Jabar played for UCLA as Lee Alcincer. Now take a step back, if legal name is William but I want everyone to call me Bill because William is what my Dad is known by, would you have a problem with that? Say I plan to legally change my name from Mortimer to Martain but never got to it and you know I hate Mortimer, and you keep calling me that, am I a snow flake or are you just obnoxious? This is simple respect and courtesy. If a person is transgender and that's why they change their name, are you saying they are not entitled to simple courtesy? Think about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:forget about Jenner. If I legally change my name for any reason and you refuse to use it after being told, isn't that pretty obnoxious? In the sports world, Mohamed Ali didn't like being called Cassius Clay, and I'd bet most people under 50 don't know that Kareem Abdul Jabar played for UCLA as Lee Alcincer. Now take a step back, if legal name is William but I want everyone to call me Bill because William is what my Dad is known by, would you have a problem with that? Say I plan to legally change my name from Mortimer to Martain but never got to it and you know I hate Mortimer, and you keep calling me that, am I a snow flake or are you just obnoxious? This is simple respect and courtesy. If a person is transgender and that's why they change their name, are you saying they are not entitled to simple courtesy? Think about it.

Usually they don't legally change their name.

[Anonymous]

Weak point . First , what does it matter if is legally changed or not. Second, there are no stats so "usually"'above is at most your guess. In the hierarchy of issues to deal with, legal name changes are not first on the list of any trans person I have known when they first came out. That said, third, there is so much demand for name changes among trans people that several pro bono legal groups have established formal name change projects for trans people. Several lawyers at my firm have attended trainings in NY. I attended one outside of Baltimore. And when you do change, it takes money and also time to change over all ones other records.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to admit it... I wasn't up to date on the non-binary culture until recently when my daughter's classmate came over to work on a project and beforehand my daughter said, "mom, just so you know, Alex is non-binary." I had to do some quick Googling even after she explained it to me and really think about what I was going to say before I said anything out loud. I did slip once with "do you guys need a snack?" and I got the Teen Eyeroll of Doom from my kid.

But now that I've learned about non-binary, I do see it more and more around me. During a college visit, many of the kids introducing themselves in the small tour group started with, "I'm Jane, I go by she/her" and "I'm Paul, they/them, please."

Why are you letting a teenager to dictate to you how to use English language?

If your teen decides to ride in the car naked for example, will you go along with that? Just because they feel like that it doesn't mean that you have to change your language, values, manners, etc. If the teen doesn't feel comfortable when you call Alex by her or his gender, then he or she has a choice not to come to your house. I would never bend to the teens' crap.

+ 1,000,000

And, if on a college tour with my DC, a kid introduced him or herself and then proceeded to state preferred pronouns, it would be all I could do to keep from laughing. Or perhaps chime in from the back of the group, "please refer to me as Your Royal Highness."

I cannot love this enough!

There's no way I'm creating new rules for pronouns, nor for who is male/female.

[Anonymous]

The real question is -

Why are you feeling any guilt at all, OP?

The demanding people are crazy, period.

The ones who are truly suffering know not to make a big deal out verbiage. All they want is to live in peace.

[Anonymous]

I have to chuckle at the posters who say "I'm not creating new rules for pronouns" or other sorts of refusals. It's not up to you, snowflake, and the rules have already been rewritten. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/grammar/using-they-and-them-in-the-singular

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to chuckle at the posters who say "I'm not creating new rules for pronouns" or other sorts of refusals. It's not up to you, snowflake, and the rules have already been rewritten. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/grammar/using-they-and-them-in-the-singular

Oh darlin', that usage is completely different from "Chris is non-binary and prefers they/them." But you just keep a watchful eye out for that which may offend!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have issues with non-binary and subject verb agreement. I have read Judith Butler and understand the argument but the grammarian in me can't do it. Language is limiting but we need to come up with new pronouns.

Language is not static. It changes and evolves as we do. Get over it. Everyone knows what it means when you use "they" in that context. Descriptive not prescriptive people!

[Anonymous]

Most posts on non-binary / trans people--especially pronouns--get caustic pretty quickly here, but just a reminder: People are attached to these experiences. Real people, real lives, real feelings.

It's just common courtesy: call someone what they want to be called. Use the name you're introduced by. Would you congratulate yourself for mispronouncing someone's name?

And OP, I feel you. It was hard for me to get used to new names / pronouns for the folks I know who've changed them since we've met. I felt dumb, using the singular they felt hella awkward, I'm cisgendered, and my experience of my own gender is basically invisible to me, so...I take everyne's gender kinda for granted. But two of the non-binary folks I know are true, dear friends (one, in fact, is an ex), so...knowing them already made me want to keep that friendship going--they're awesome humans!--and that made the awkward part of it easier.

It doesn't seem like you're close to this person, and are experiencing the discomfort of talking about them and explaining things you don't quite get to other people.

My sense is that every person of trans / non-binary experience does it differently. So if you've got an active friendship and have put in some pronouns 101 legwork, they may well be some willingness to talk you through any pronouns 201 questions you have--in my experience, doing a little leg work is appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a "dead name"?

"Deadname" is the term for the original name of a transgender person pre-transition. For example, Caitlyn Jenner's "deadname" is Bruce. It's called a deadname because it represents a painful portion of the transitioned person's past.

Using someone's "deadname" could be harmful because by referencing a trans person's former name in front of someone who doesn't know they're trans, you're outing them. But beyond that, activists say it is harmful to use a person's former name in any context. To return the the Caitlyn Jenner reference, activists also say that articles about Jenner should not use the phrase "formerly known as Bruce Jenner," or anything along those lines. The name Bruce should never be referred to again. For example, some say that when Jenner first publicly announced that Caitlyn would be her new name, articles should not have said "Caitlyn Jenner, Formerly Bruce, Introduces Herself." It should have only been "Transgender Olympian Announces New Name," with no mention of "Bruce" anywhere in the article or headline.

Caitlyn Jenner, by the way, doesn't agree with this- in her recent memoir, she says that Bruce existed for 65 years and she won't erase that. It's an individual thing, I suppose. But the activists say it should never be used.

Recently, there was controversy over an article published in the feminist philosophy journal Hypatia for this very thing. Because the writer, a philosophy professor, mentioned that Caitlyn Jenner was previously known as Bruce, there was a (successful) petition created to get the article removed, accusing the author of violence, deadnaming, and transphobia. The article was retracted and an apology was issued by the journal. An article on the controversy from New York magazine: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/transracialism-article-controversy.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a "dead name"?

"Deadname" is the term for the original name of a transgender person pre-transition. For example, Caitlyn Jenner's "deadname" is Bruce. It's called a deadname because it represents a painful portion of the transitioned person's past.

Using someone's "deadname" could be harmful because by referencing a trans person's former name in front of someone who doesn't know they're trans, you're outing them. But beyond that, activists say it is harmful to use a person's former name in any context. To return the the Caitlyn Jenner reference, activists also say that articles about Jenner should not use the phrase "formerly known as Bruce Jenner," or anything along those lines. The name Bruce should never be referred to again. For example, some say that when Jenner first publicly announced that Caitlyn would be her new name, articles should not have said "Caitlyn Jenner, Formerly Bruce, Introduces Herself." It should have only been "Transgender Olympian Announces New Name," with no mention of "Bruce" anywhere in the article or headline.

Caitlyn Jenner, by the way, doesn't agree with this- in her recent memoir, she says that Bruce existed for 65 years and she won't erase that. It's an individual thing, I suppose. But the activists say it should never be used.

Recently, there was controversy over an article published in the feminist philosophy journal Hypatia for this very thing. Because the writer, a philosophy professor, mentioned that Caitlyn Jenner was previously known as Bruce, there was a (successful) petition created to get the article removed, accusing the author of violence, deadnaming, and transphobia. The article was retracted and an apology was issued by the journal. An article on the controversy from New York magazine: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/transracialism-article-controversy.html

I know we are supposed to pretend not to know, but most trans people do not need to be "outed".

The Adam's apple is a dead giveaway for men