DC Charter sector is blacker and poorer and outscores DCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My take away is that large percentages African American and more poor families are self selecting into charters. So those around DCUM who argue that charters are elitist and a bastion for racist white families can now shut up.

That's not a point we're making about charters in general. There are simply some that have erected barriers (intentionally or unintentionally) that end up with higher-SES populations (rabid DCUM charter cheerleading parents). These charters got a lot of buzz here, but they're also the ones undermining some DCPS's in gentrifying neighborhoods from getting a toehold on neighborhood kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need statistics

Look at KIPP, DC Prep, other chartesrs that are almost all minority. The test scores are light years ahead of other schools in DCPS that are all minority

Charters are giving SOME African Americans and Hispanics an actual path to success instead of being stuck in extremely terrible public schools

Fixed that for you. I say that because I work at a school in ward 7 where we get quite a few ex-KIPPers who have been counseled out for various reasons.

Thats still better than the status quo of crappy public schools though

Instead of people being stuck at your crappy ward 7 school there is an option to go to a charter and break the poverty cycle.

I hear you and even agree with you somewhat. Just don't pretend that my crappy ward 7 school doesn't end up taking the charters' throwaways, k?

I hope you are not an educator.

+1. I feel sad for these kids.

Sorry to pile on even more but what do you expect. Its a very tough environment. Any decent teacher would try to get out of that situation as quikcly as possible. You are left with the worst teachers in many cases aka the dead wood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take away is that large percentages African American and more poor families are self selecting into charters. So those around DCUM who argue that charters are elitist and a bastion for racist white families can now shut up.

That's not a point we're making about charters in general. There are simply some that have erected barriers (intentionally or unintentionally) that end up with higher-SES populations (rabid DCUM charter cheerleading parents). These charters got a lot of buzz here, but they're also the ones undermining some DCPS's in gentrifying neighborhoods from getting a toehold on neighborhood kids.

Yup same issue

Why would high SES people stay in the poorer performing neighborhood school when there are better charter options available

Why would lower SES people east of the river stay in their poorer performing neighborhood scohol when there are better charter options available

So if you complete the chain regardless of what SES you are. Charters will have more motivated/better kids compared to DCPS hence the score gap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need statistics

Look at KIPP, DC Prep, other chartesrs that are almost all minority. The test scores are light years ahead of other schools in DCPS that are all minority

Charters are giving SOME African Americans and Hispanics an actual path to success instead of being stuck in extremely terrible public schools

Fixed that for you. I say that because I work at a school in ward 7 where we get quite a few ex-KIPPers who have been counseled out for various reasons.

Thats still better than the status quo of crappy public schools though

Instead of people being stuck at your crappy ward 7 school there is an option to go to a charter and break the poverty cycle.

I hear you and even agree with you somewhat. Just don't pretend that my crappy ward 7 school doesn't end up taking the charters' throwaways, k?

I hope you are not an educator.

+1. I feel sad for these kids.

Sorry to pile on even more but what do you expect. Its a very tough environment. Any decent teacher would try to get out of that situation as quikcly as possible. You are left with the worst teachers in many cases aka the dead wood.

Not disputing that. Simply feel sad for the kids. Don't have a solution either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need statistics

Look at KIPP, DC Prep, other chartesrs that are almost all minority. The test scores are light years ahead of other schools in DCPS that are all minority

Charters are giving SOME African Americans and Hispanics an actual path to success instead of being stuck in extremely terrible public schools

Fixed that for you. I say that because I work at a school in ward 7 where we get quite a few ex-KIPPers who have been counseled out for various reasons.

Thats still better than the status quo of crappy public schools though

Instead of people being stuck at your crappy ward 7 school there is an option to go to a charter and break the poverty cycle.

I hear you and even agree with you somewhat. Just don't pretend that my crappy ward 7 school doesn't end up taking the charters' throwaways, k?

I hope you are not an educator.

Why, because she is telling the truth?

+1. I feel sad for these kids.

[Anonymous]

Guys, the ability to counsel out kids is a major factor here -- if all schools could get "rid" of their special ed and troublesome students, scores would climb demonstrably. You CANNOT discount this.

[Anonymous]

As a previous poster said, it is not that black & white. Some charters are doing a great job but some are pretty crappy.
They do have an advantage over DCPS schools, besides more motivated families, in being able to limit enrolment and being able to get rid of troublesome students.
There is the unfortunate practice where they keep students until Novemver and then expel them.
This ensures that they get the money allocated for that student and then the kid is sent off to their local DCPS school that
has no choice but to accept them even though the money for that student has already been given to the charter school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a previous poster said, it is not that black & white. Some charters are doing a great job but some are pretty crappy.
They do have an advantage over DCPS schools, besides more motivated families, in being able to limit enrolment and being able to get rid of troublesome students.
There is the unfortunate practice where they keep students until Novemver and then expel them.
This ensures that they get the money allocated for that student and then the kid is sent off to their local DCPS school that
has no choice but to accept them even though the money for that student has already been given to the charter school.

Look at the exit data published by OSSE school by school. This problem is MUCH less pervasive than it used to be.

It was rampany 6-7 years ago but DCPCSB and OSSE effectively cracked down. Of course it still happens in some places but it's not enough to explain the differences in results. In fact, only 8% of students move in any given year, and 75% of the time they leave the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take away is that large percentages African American and more poor families are self selecting into charters. So those around DCUM who argue that charters are elitist and a bastion for racist white families can now shut up.

That's not a point we're making about charters in general. There are simply some that have erected barriers (intentionally or unintentionally) that end up with higher-SES populations (rabid DCUM charter cheerleading parents). These charters got a lot of buzz here, but they're also the ones undermining some DCPS's in gentrifying neighborhoods from getting a toehold on neighborhood kids.

Yup same issue

Why would high SES people stay in the poorer performing neighborhood school when there are better charter options available

Why would lower SES people east of the river stay in their poorer performing neighborhood scohol when there are better charter options available

So if you complete the chain regardless of what SES you are. Charters will have more motivated/better kids compared to DCPS hence the score gap

More perplexing is why high SES people go to poorer performing charters when there are better neighborhood options available. I've seen a lot of excuses for why, but I think it boils down to the HRCS having a higher percentage of whites and so there is the perception that is better performing even if the data say otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't need statistics

Look at KIPP, DC Prep, other chartesrs that are almost all minority. The test scores are light years ahead of other schools in DCPS that are all minority

Charters are giving African Americans and Hispanics an actual path to success instead of being stuck in extremely terrible public schools

My kid has always been at a charter. But, I am not silly enough not to recognize that my kid's HRC elementary school (DCUM definition) would counsel and strongly encourage students out. I personally know of three families in which this happened. And honestly, one of the kids were so disruptive, I was silently glad that the school did encourage the family that the school was not a good fit. Two went to DCPS and the other to another charter school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need statistics

Look at KIPP, DC Prep, other chartesrs that are almost all minority. The test scores are light years ahead of other schools in DCPS that are all minority

Charters are giving SOME African Americans and Hispanics an actual path to success instead of being stuck in extremely terrible public schools

Fixed that for you. I say that because I work at a school in ward 7 where we get quite a few ex-KIPPers who have been counseled out for various reasons.

Thats still better than the status quo of crappy public schools though

Instead of people being stuck at your crappy ward 7 school there is an option to go to a charter and break the poverty cycle.

I hear you and even agree with you somewhat. Just don't pretend that my crappy ward 7 school doesn't end up taking the charters' throwaways, k?

I agree with you too. Thats the dark side of all this. The charters are sucking out the motivated in ward 7 and 8 and then they reject the tough cases so the people left attending the publics are the low of the low. I don't envy your position at all.

Do you people hear yourselves when you type this crap. You're disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need statistics

Look at KIPP, DC Prep, other chartesrs that are almost all minority. The test scores are light years ahead of other schools in DCPS that are all minority

Charters are giving SOME African Americans and Hispanics an actual path to success instead of being stuck in extremely terrible public schools

Fixed that for you. I say that because I work at a school in ward 7 where we get quite a few ex-KIPPers who have been counseled out for various reasons.

I'm OK with that. KIPP is up front about what is expected of students and families.

+1.

And, based on a separate thread from yesterday, the school that "counsels out" most students is Banneker. Around half of incoming 9th graders are out before graduation.

Why can't charters ensure some high standards too.

Because Congress has not given Charters the authorization to become application schools. Don't you understand the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take away is that large percentages African American and more poor families are self selecting into charters. So those around DCUM who argue that charters are elitist and a bastion for racist white families can now shut up.

That's not a point we're making about charters in general. There are simply some that have erected barriers (intentionally or unintentionally) that end up with higher-SES populations (rabid DCUM charter cheerleading parents). These charters got a lot of buzz here, but they're also the ones undermining some DCPS's in gentrifying neighborhoods from getting a toehold on neighborhood kids.

Yup same issue

Why would high SES people stay in the poorer performing neighborhood school when there are better charter options available

Why would lower SES people east of the river stay in their poorer performing neighborhood scohol when there are better charter options available

So if you complete the chain regardless of what SES you are. Charters will have more motivated/better kids compared to DCPS hence the score gap

More perplexing is why high SES people go to poorer performing charters when there are better neighborhood options available. I've seen a lot of excuses for why, but I think it boils down to the HRCS having a higher percentage of whites and so there is the perception that is better performing even if the data say otherwise.

And the data you are citing is the PARCC? Are you talking about CMI and ITS again? Because I think you need to consider language immersion charters separately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need statistics

Look at KIPP, DC Prep, other chartesrs that are almost all minority. The test scores are light years ahead of other schools in DCPS that are all minority

Charters are giving SOME African Americans and Hispanics an actual path to success instead of being stuck in extremely terrible public schools

Fixed that for you. I say that because I work at a school in ward 7 where we get quite a few ex-KIPPers who have been counseled out for various reasons.

Thats still better than the status quo of crappy public schools though

Instead of people being stuck at your crappy ward 7 school there is an option to go to a charter and break the poverty cycle.

I hear you and even agree with you somewhat. Just don't pretend that my crappy ward 7 school doesn't end up taking the charters' throwaways, k?

I hope you are not an educator.

+1. I feel sad for these kids.

Sorry to pile on even more but what do you expect. Its a very tough environment. Any decent teacher would try to get out of that situation as quikcly as possible. You are left with the worst teachers in many cases aka the dead wood.

Actually that's not true. One of the downsides of charter schools are the high teacher turnover rate. Where exactly do you think these charter teachers go when they leave the charters? The majority end up in DCPS, MOCO, and PGC public schools. You didn't really think they want to earn a mere 30k for the rest of the lives, do you. So your once lauded charter school teachers are now the considered dead wood according to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't need statistics

Look at KIPP, DC Prep, other chartesrs that are almost all minority. The test scores are light years ahead of other schools in DCPS that are all minority

Charters are giving SOME African Americans and Hispanics an actual path to success instead of being stuck in extremely terrible public schools

Fixed that for you. I say that because I work at a school in ward 7 where we get quite a few ex-KIPPers who have been counseled out for various reasons.

Thats still better than the status quo of crappy public schools though

Instead of people being stuck at your crappy ward 7 school there is an option to go to a charter and break the poverty cycle.

I hear you and even agree with you somewhat. Just don't pretend that my crappy ward 7 school doesn't end up taking the charters' throwaways, k?

I agree with you too. Thats the dark side of all this. The charters are sucking out the motivated in ward 7 and 8 and then they reject the tough cases so the people left attending the publics are the low of the low. I don't envy your position at all.

Do you people hear yourselves when you type this crap. You're disgusting.

+1