Help with odd social behavior - 4 year old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here - I get really frustrated with the bias and judgment re behavioral issues on this board. Behavioral issues are often part and parcel of delays, and they are no worse than say not talking, they just are less societally acceptable. I'm not going to allow my kid to hurt anyone or put him in a situation where that can happen. But anytime I've sought help on this board I've been chastised, condemned and told that these are the most seriously bad issues there are. I have found that special needs parents are often the most likely to take every opportunity to find someone whose situation is "worse" than their own. It's very off putting and not helpful to anyone.

NP here and I have to agree with this. I think everyone on this particular thread has been helpful but that hasn't been the case with different threads. Many times people chime in just to proclaim their child has NO behavioral issues and then to lecture whoever is posting about all the things they are doing wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - I get really frustrated with the bias and judgment re behavioral issues on this board. Behavioral issues are often part and parcel of delays, and they are no worse than say not talking, they just are less societally acceptable. I'm not going to allow my kid to hurt anyone or put him in a situation where that can happen. But anytime I've sought help on this board I've been chastised, condemned and told that these are the most seriously bad issues there are. I have found that special needs parents are often the most likely to take every opportunity to find someone whose situation is "worse" than their own. It's very off putting and not helpful to anyone.

NP here and I have to agree with this. I think everyone on this particular thread has been helpful but that hasn't been the case with different threads. Many times people chime in just to proclaim their child has NO behavioral issues and then to lecture whoever is posting about all the things they are doing wrong.

Yes. Often people have commented that they would be "pissed" if their kid hit and would put an end to it. I'm not sure how parents who have kids that have issues that I'm sure others would be "pissed" to have think I should just stop something that actually is part of my son's issues, whatever they may be. He clearly can't help it anymore than other kids can help stimming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also have a child who has been aggressive since he was 24 months old (soon after he began devloping language). At the beginning, he would go after any child who was smaller than him or any child he perceived as "weaker" (and he's a pretty strong kid for his age, so "weaker" meant kids up to 2.5 years older than him in some cases). We had lots of issues during parent-child classes. He clearly wanted to be social, but we didn't know how to help him be social, especially since his language skills were very delayed.

He started in MCITP at 16 months with an SLP and a special educator. When he was 2.5, he started preschool in a normal program and his special educator would work him him weekly in his classroom. It was a bit of a mess. Apparently, he was hitting multiple children per hour and the teachers in the preschool would do nothing; they chalked up what he did to "normal" behavior. We told them (and his special educator told them) multiple times to not let him hit, but to no avail. We pulled him from that program when he became eligible for an MCPS program at 3 and he was assigned to PEP Classic.

The difference we have seen in the last few months in our child has been huge. First, his PEP teachers have consistently told us that he was never a behavior issue in class and he never hit his classmates there. I believe that because PEP provides a child with a consistent, structured environment with a lot of supports and supervision. Second, his language skills have improved exponentially. In PEP this year, they spent the last two months of the school year just working on question words. He now understands questions and can usually respond to questions properly. Being able to understand more has helped improve his behavior.

He is also in a speech therapy program through Kennedy Krieger and having the additional speech therapy sessions have also helped.

We also started last August looking for a different preschool environment for him when it was clear that the first preschool we chose wasn't going to be a good fit. It took until very recently to find a program that would embrace our child with his challenges without putting him on a short leash before getting kicked out. He hasn't been there long, so it's hard to tell what's going to happen, but we've observed their classrooms and seen how the teachers have handled children with short attention spans and children who want to hit, and we're impressed. They have really impressed on the children that hitting is not OK and is not acceptable, and they really focus on teaching the children to be polite. For example, this morning at drop-off, a child came up to me and said, "Excuse me, can you please open this for me?" I think the way the children speak to each other and adults in a classroom says a lot for the environment.

Getting back to our DS, he hits a lot less than he used to. He hit one child at a museum last week when he was overtired and in need of a nap. He also tried playing a bit too rough with a baby in a shopping cart at a store over the weekend, also when he was overtired and in need of a nap. We had to intervene both times. However, his behavior when it is not close to nap time has improved tremendously.

I attribute his recent behavior to having him in environments that support positive behavior. We don't think that a school that tolerates children hitting other children is the right place for our child. I know that it's really late in the game to switch schools, but you might want to find a school that will accept your child for who he is and will work to help his behavior. If you haven't gotten a Child Find evaluation done, it might be worth doing to see if he qualifies for a public program. These public programs are really amazing, the classrooms are state-of-the-art, the toys and books are new and are fabulous (Elephant and Piggie, Knuffle Bunny, Chicka Chicka Boom Boom, Llama Llama Red Pajama, Owen, A Good Day, The Snowy Day, etc.), and the teachers are highly qualified (Masters in Special Education).

I don't want to tell you what to do. I can just tell you that if our child had continued in his old program, we would be in an incredibly frustrated place right now. Instead, we're seeing some light at the end of whatever tunnel we're/he's in.

Both of those hitting situations could be avoided. You feed or leave before things escalate. You may only have 1-2 hour outings till it gets better but don't put him in situations where he is out, overtired, and behavior then in impacted.

[Anonymous]

Hmm sounds normal to me. My son hit and had trouble regulating himself from 3 to 7. He grew out of it around 6.5-7. His ES kept suggesting that he has ADHD because he kept getting in trouble in kindergarten and that medications may help with self regulation. I decided to wait it out and boy am I happy o did! In first grade he became a model student, best in his class in reading and math, not a single behavior incident and a pure joy to be around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmm sounds normal to me. My son hit and had trouble regulating himself from 3 to 7. He grew out of it around 6.5-7. His ES kept suggesting that he has ADHD because he kept getting in trouble in kindergarten and that medications may help with self regulation. I decided to wait it out and boy am I happy o did! In first grade he became a model student, best in his class in reading and math, not a single behavior incident and a pure joy to be around.

Forgot to add that his hitting was really really bad. Like grabbing a stick and hiring a child or swimming up to someone at the pool and punching them. I have no idea why he did it. But it's completely gone now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also have a child who has been aggressive since he was 24 months old (soon after he began devloping language). At the beginning, he would go after any child who was smaller than him or any child he perceived as "weaker" (and he's a pretty strong kid for his age, so "weaker" meant kids up to 2.5 years older than him in some cases). We had lots of issues during parent-child classes. He clearly wanted to be social, but we didn't know how to help him be social, especially since his language skills were very delayed.

He started in MCITP at 16 months with an SLP and a special educator. When he was 2.5, he started preschool in a normal program and his special educator would work him him weekly in his classroom. It was a bit of a mess. Apparently, he was hitting multiple children per hour and the teachers in the preschool would do nothing; they chalked up what he did to "normal" behavior. We told them (and his special educator told them) multiple times to not let him hit, but to no avail. We pulled him from that program when he became eligible for an MCPS program at 3 and he was assigned to PEP Classic.

The difference we have seen in the last few months in our child has been huge. First, his PEP teachers have consistently told us that he was never a behavior issue in class and he never hit his classmates there. I believe that because PEP provides a child with a consistent, structured environment with a lot of supports and supervision. Second, his language skills have improved exponentially. In PEP this year, they spent the last two months of the school year just working on question words. He now understands questions and can usually respond to questions properly. Being able to understand more has helped improve his behavior.

He is also in a speech therapy program through Kennedy Krieger and having the additional speech therapy sessions have also helped.

We also started last August looking for a different preschool environment for him when it was clear that the first preschool we chose wasn't going to be a good fit. It took until very recently to find a program that would embrace our child with his challenges without putting him on a short leash before getting kicked out. He hasn't been there long, so it's hard to tell what's going to happen, but we've observed their classrooms and seen how the teachers have handled children with short attention spans and children who want to hit, and we're impressed. They have really impressed on the children that hitting is not OK and is not acceptable, and they really focus on teaching the children to be polite. For example, this morning at drop-off, a child came up to me and said, "Excuse me, can you please open this for me?" I think the way the children speak to each other and adults in a classroom says a lot for the environment.

Getting back to our DS, he hits a lot less than he used to. He hit one child at a museum last week when he was overtired and in need of a nap. He also tried playing a bit too rough with a baby in a shopping cart at a store over the weekend, also when he was overtired and in need of a nap. We had to intervene both times. However, his behavior when it is not close to nap time has improved tremendously.

I attribute his recent behavior to having him in environments that support positive behavior. We don't think that a school that tolerates children hitting other children is the right place for our child. I know that it's really late in the game to switch schools, but you might want to find a school that will accept your child for who he is and will work to help his behavior. If you haven't gotten a Child Find evaluation done, it might be worth doing to see if he qualifies for a public program. These public programs are really amazing, the classrooms are state-of-the-art, the toys and books are new and are fabulous (Elephant and Piggie, Knuffle Bunny, Chicka Chicka Boom Boom, Llama Llama Red Pajama, Owen, A Good Day, The Snowy Day, etc.), and the teachers are highly qualified (Masters in Special Education).

I don't want to tell you what to do. I can just tell you that if our child had continued in his old program, we would be in an incredibly frustrated place right now. Instead, we're seeing some light at the end of whatever tunnel we're/he's in.

Both of those hitting situations could be avoided. You feed or leave before things escalate. You may only have 1-2 hour outings till it gets better but don't put him in situations where he is out, overtired, and behavior then in impacted.

Yes, they could have been avoided, but sometimes life intervenes and you realize you are in a grocery store at a bad time. And when your kid has issues that impact behavior, eventually you can't just cower at home and only emerge 60 minutes at a time. It's not good for you, or for them. It's not as easy as daying you wait until it "gets better" because you don't know when that is. And it's also not good parenting to completely avoid any stress whatsoever - neither you nor your kid ever get a chance to grow and learn. Of course when you have a kid with "behaviors" you want to limit the impact on everyone ... but nobody is perfect, and you can't force your 4 year old to be a hermit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - I get really frustrated with the bias and judgment re behavioral issues on this board. Behavioral issues are often part and parcel of delays, and they are no worse than say not talking, they just are less societally acceptable. I'm not going to allow my kid to hurt anyone or put him in a situation where that can happen. But anytime I've sought help on this board I've been chastised, condemned and told that these are the most seriously bad issues there are. I have found that special needs parents are often the most likely to take every opportunity to find someone whose situation is "worse" than their own. It's very off putting and not helpful to anyone.

NP here and I have to agree with this. I think everyone on this particular thread has been helpful but that hasn't been the case with different threads. Many times people chime in just to proclaim their child has NO behavioral issues and then to lecture whoever is posting about all the things they are doing wrong.

NP and +1 to all of this. I *mostly* find this board incredibly unhelpful, and everyone is always trying to bring you "down" to their level. Like, their kid has a crappy diagnosis so there is no possible way that someone else's diagnosis could vary from that. I remember last year posting about my son's ADHD and saying that the dev ped said there was no oppositional defiance (which I agreed with) and a bunch of people were like "sweetie, you think somehow your kid is magically having some kind of unheard of ADHD diagnosis without ODD? You're delusional because everyone has it this way". It's so outrageously unhelpful. I also hate the martyrism on this site that, if your kid has a special needs diagnosis (any diagnosis) and you aren't planning to sacrifice your entire life to its treatment, then you are a terrible, delusional parent. Like, someone comes on asking about fine motor skill issues, and the responses are all about how the parent has to quit their job and plan for 30 hours a week of therapy and "it's a marathon, not a sprint". And even worse when they get up in arms if you suggest that your kid's adhd was essentially resolved by merely visiting the regular pediatrician and getting the first set of recommended meds. Like "what do you mean you didn't get a $5000 neuropsych exam? We don't care that the meds in fact resolved all of your child's problems, and they are now a happy academically successful child. You are a terrible parent for not determining what comorbid issues they have, and for not assuming your child will be burdened for the next 20 years".

In any event, OP, it was very clear to me that you had a dev ped diagnosis (I mean, why would you visit a dev ped if not for a diagnosis?? Use your brains people) and were doing ABA. And you were just looking for insight as to what else may be going on.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I think it's hard, because some people really do just have minor issues and others do not. I don't think our issues are minor or transient, unfortunately. I also don't wish them on anyone else. I do think some special needs parents really want to rank other needs to feel better. And behavior is low hanging fruit. But it's just as hard to modify as rigidity, which is of course behavior, or mutism, or refusal to engage and it really is no better or worse. It's frustrating to have a child with severe ADHD because their behavior is so often annoying, and more in your face than kids with Asd, and yes, I know it's a spectrum and some kids with Asd also have ADHD but I'm talking in generalities. I'm just tired of feeling like the pariah because my kids issues are much more externalizing and deliberately annoying others.