My MS DS explodes when we say "No"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We have him on a points system where he can earn rewards. Just last night we took him to a store to buy some craft thing that he wanted and had earned with his points. That's what is so frustrating. Today we take him somewhere and he's pissed because we won't buy him what he wants. Well we just bought him something yesterday. He is never satisfied and totally disregards what we just did for him. The points system can be so frustrating because he can be a total jerk but doesn't lose points that he has earned because that's what his therapist tells us. So frustrating because as parents we give him our all and get little in return. I know parents shouldn't expect much, but it's very lopsided in this case and often makes us feel defeated.

OP- I'm the pp who concurred with the strategy of using pocket money. We have discovered with my DS that we can only change things, one little bit at a time. This is probably where your therapist is coming from- a reward to change some aspect of your DS's behavior. We have a similar reward system in our house around speaking respectfully and earning screen time. I've found that taking points away is counterproductive because the reward system becomes a punishment system and for my DS, highly ineffective and negative.

I think you have to decide what behavior is your priority-- is it the behavior that allows your DS to earn points or is it his behavior in stores? If it's the behavior for the point system, you will need to grit your teeth and stick with it. If you need to abandon that system for your DS's behavior in stores- I think pocket money would eventually be highly effective (very logical and the independence might appeal to a child with ODD).

I get where you're coming from- it is very hard to parent a child who cannot be disciplined in typical ways. There are a lot of things that get me down- it's mainly because I worry about the future when I see how immature and impaired my DS is and wonder how that will play out as he ages.

[Anonymous]

How about instead of points he earns quarters for good behavior?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We have him on a points system where he can earn rewards. Just last night we took him to a store to buy some craft thing that he wanted and had earned with his points. That's what is so frustrating. Today we take him somewhere and he's pissed because we won't buy him what he wants. Well we just bought him something yesterday. He is never satisfied and totally disregards what we just did for him. The points system can be so frustrating because he can be a total jerk but doesn't lose points that he has earned because that's what his therapist tells us. So frustrating because as parents we give him our all and get little in return. I know parents shouldn't expect much, but it's very lopsided in this case and often makes us feel defeated.

OP- I'm the pp who concurred with the strategy of using pocket money. We have discovered with my DS that we can only change things, one little bit at a time. This is probably where your therapist is coming from- a reward to change some aspect of your DS's behavior. We have a similar reward system in our house around speaking respectfully and earning screen time. I've found that taking points away is counterproductive because the reward system becomes a punishment system and for my DS, highly ineffective and negative.

I think you have to decide what behavior is your priority-- is it the behavior that allows your DS to earn points or is it his behavior in stores? If it's the behavior for the point system, you will need to grit your teeth and stick with it. If you need to abandon that system for your DS's behavior in stores- I think pocket money would eventually be highly effective (very logical and the independence might appeal to a child with ODD).

I get where you're coming from- it is very hard to parent a child who cannot be disciplined in typical ways. There are a lot of things that get me down- it's mainly because I worry about the future when I see how immature and impaired my DS is and wonder how that will play out as he ages.

+1. I worry about that too with my DS. So hard to get through each week, let alone think about what the future may hold.

[Anonymous]

I'm just going to throw ideas out there of things that helped for my son who has ADHD and ODD. In general, I keep reminding myself how he is such a concrete and literal thinker. Everything is very black & white for him and he is very inflexible. So unexpected situations that most people can go with may send him into tears or a tantrum (like .. X restaurant has a line out the door, lets go to Y instead ... tears).

At the same time, he really blossoms when he feels more in control. When he's not being oppositional, he's very sweet and sensitive and giving him as much control as is feasible brings that out.

- While this behavior is a problem, do not EVER buy goodies for anyone on the shopping trip. Even if you set it up beforehand, later on he won't remember that you talked about it beforehand, just that you did it. Remember occasional rewards are the most reinforcing of behavior.
- Give money awards for good behavior and let him buy his own treats if he has the money -- do not "spot" money and do not veto selections.
- Religiously follow a set bedtime schedule, even on weekends. Lack of sleep on top of broken routines = disaster waiting to happen.
- If behavior has improved and you want to introduce a treat, make it a set, once a week, thing. DS responds well to structure, routine, and rules so if treats follow rules, it puts it in a different "box" in his mind. Then you can also say, "Well, FroYo is a Sunday thing. It'll be Sunday in three more days. What flavor were you thinking of getting on Sunday when we go?"

In general if we're having a problem with a particular situation, it helps us to sit down when we're all cool and calm and set ground rules. I keep ground rules specific to the situation and small in number. For an older kid you could even write down the rules and get signatures. For example, when DS was a bit younger we set ground rules for restaurant behavior. We had three rules that we all agreed upon and any time we had a rules violation I could remind him of "restaurant rules". It took a few months of going to places like IHOP or Denny's pretty regularly and being on top of following the rules, but it pretty much stopped being a problem after that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about instead of points he earns quarters for good behavior?

Yes--have him earn money instead of points. Then he can buy what he wants and when the money is gone, then all he can do is earn more. If stores are too hard for him, don't take him into stores until he can handle "no". And do not ever, ever, ever buy him anything impulsively because that will only make him try harder next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here. Pocket money is an interesting idea, but then I feel like it makes the rewards system less valuable because he'll have the money that he needs to buy what he wants. I see PP's point that without him having any money (he had over $100 at one point and spent it on frivolous things), then he's reliant on good behavior to earn points and subsequent purchases. For a kid that struggles with being controlled and taking direction, maybe that's pissing him off.

It would need to be an amount that he could handle for his age and maturity level, not more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We have him on a points system where he can earn rewards. Just last night we took him to a store to buy some craft thing that he wanted and had earned with his points. That's what is so frustrating. Today we take him somewhere and he's pissed because we won't buy him what he wants. Well we just bought him something yesterday. He is never satisfied and totally disregards what we just did for him. The points system can be so frustrating because he can be a total jerk but doesn't lose points that he has earned because that's what his therapist tells us. So frustrating because as parents we give him our all and get little in return. I know parents shouldn't expect much, but it's very lopsided in this case and often makes us feel defeated.

OP- I'm the pp who concurred with the strategy of using pocket money. We have discovered with my DS that we can only change things, one little bit at a time. This is probably where your therapist is coming from- a reward to change some aspect of your DS's behavior. We have a similar reward system in our house around speaking respectfully and earning screen time. I've found that taking points away is counterproductive because the reward system becomes a punishment system and for my DS, highly ineffective and negative.

I think you have to decide what behavior is your priority-- is it the behavior that allows your DS to earn points or is it his behavior in stores? If it's the behavior for the point system, you will need to grit your teeth and stick with it. If you need to abandon that system for your DS's behavior in stores- I think pocket money would eventually be highly effective (very logical and the independence might appeal to a child with ODD).

I get where you're coming from- it is very hard to parent a child who cannot be disciplined in typical ways. There are a lot of things that get me down- it's mainly because I worry about the future when I see how immature and impaired my DS is and wonder how that will play out as he ages.

+1. I worry about that too with my DS. So hard to get through each week, let alone think about what the future may hold.

pp here- I recently read that middle school is the hardest to parent- it's like a second toddlerhood/preschool-- all the need for independence and judgement/capability lagging significantly behind. A child with ODD going through puberty is going to be this equation by an order of magnitude. Things will improve because, in part, this behavior is developmental and hormone driven. Of course tantrums in public are not typical for this age- but in spite of the perfect parent/perfect kid fairytale that we often hear about it's pretty normal for kids to test limits of respect and authority around this time- with the added component of social/behavioral disabilities, it's just so much more dramatic and frustrating. The immaturity will seem extreme until things level out a bit- hang in there.