Opting out of coast madness to live a low overhead life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It helps to be an academic. Then you can live in lovely little college towns that are shielded from the economic chaos that rules the rest of the world. It's a great place to raise kids because everyone is so relaxed and there is no rat race.

* And we know exactly how to dress: khakis, crew neck sweaters, comfy shoes. Tweedy blazers with antelope elbow patches! Never goes out of style!

Very few college towns are actual nice places to live. See: Olean, NY; DeKalb, IL; etc.

[Anonymous]

Ithaca, NY; Berkeley, CA and Charlottsville are exceptions to the rule.

[Anonymous]

I'm guessing Ithaca is cheap but Berkeley and Cville are as expensive as DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all about perspective and where you're coming from. Lots of NYC friends have opted out of the NYC/North Jersey/Long Island/CT madness and have settled here in DC and LOVE the cost of living, esp. real estate. But then I know DC folks who are moving off to Houston bc the DC COL is too much and they can get more house in Texas.

That's my husband, a NY to DC transplant.

+1.

Us, too. I miss how a lot of people I knew in NJ were somehow both high achieving and very unpretentious and down-to-earth, whereas in DC lots of people get pretentious at much lower levels of wealth and success and stressed out by what seem like smaller work issues. That said, our quality of life is much better here because work hours just aren't as crazy when the regional standard is set by Feds as when a lot of people's idea of hard work means I-banker hours. Even the same law firms in NYC and DC can have very different work cultures between the two offices even though pay is usually the same. It doesn't hurt that taxes are lower here, neither of us is stuck inhaling highway fumes in traffic on a driving commute, and we get to benefit from lots of free and accessible cultural opportunities in DC that would add another line item to our budget in NYC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a follow up to that Atlantic article that was discussed on here recently ("The Secret Shame of the Middle Class.") She's basically saying the author should have left the NYC area for a fly over state. Applies to us schmucks in DC too, I guess. What do you think?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/low-overhead-life/480612/

I haven't read this thread but I did read many of the Disqus comments to the Atlantic article and I recommend you do also. People made some good points that picked apart most of the article. I can summarize:

1) The author talks about living "surrounded by poverty" but Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb of Cleveland with a high median income and excellent schools.

2) The author briefly mentions that her parents are loaded but does not expand on how this has affected or will affect her life. In particular, she does not mention whether or not she is expecting a large inheritance. If she is, this would make her very relaxed about her retirement and would make it more psychologically comfortable to earn a low income.

3) The reason why the rust belt cities are cheap is partly because they are not blessed by world-class climate or geographical beauty, but mostly because the local economy is on a long downward slide with jobs and population both decreasing, and house prices falling or flat. Therefore, moving to the rust belt or deep south for a "low overhead life" is only feasible if you have one of the very few good jobs in the area (doctor at Clevelan Clinic, tenured professor at Case Western), or you have a work-from-anywhere job like the author. Both of these two types of jobs are exceedingly rare. Most people must: a) live where they work and b) work where they live.

So basically I think this article is about as helpful as the other Atlantic article: not very.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm guessing Ithaca is cheap but Berkeley and Cville are as expensive as DC.

Ithaca is cheap bc there is a serious job problem in upstate NY. It's fine if your work for Cornell or Ithaca College or are in healthcare and can get a job at one of the regional health systems or doctors offices. Aside from that -- it's tough going in finance, law etc. as those were all support industries in the big manufacturing corporations, many of which have now moved down south or out of the country.

I feel like Penn State people are always clamoring to go back to State College. Again not sure what there is to do there jobwise, unless you work for Penn State.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a follow up to that Atlantic article that was discussed on here recently ("The Secret Shame of the Middle Class.") She's basically saying the author should have left the NYC area for a fly over state. Applies to us schmucks in DC too, I guess. What do you think?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/low-overhead-life/480612/

I haven't read this thread but I did read many of the Disqus comments to the Atlantic article and I recommend you do also. People made some good points that picked apart most of the article. I can summarize:

1) The author talks about living "surrounded by poverty" but Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb of Cleveland with a high median income and excellent schools.

2) The author briefly mentions that her parents are loaded but does not expand on how this has affected or will affect her life. In particular, she does not mention whether or not she is expecting a large inheritance. If she is, this would make her very relaxed about her retirement and would make it more psychologically comfortable to earn a low income.

3) The reason why the rust belt cities are cheap is partly because they are not blessed by world-class climate or geographical beauty, but mostly because the local economy is on a long downward slide with jobs and population both decreasing, and house prices falling or flat. Therefore, moving to the rust belt or deep south for a "low overhead life" is only feasible if you have one of the very few good jobs in the area (doctor at Clevelan Clinic, tenured professor at Case Western), or you have a work-from-anywhere job like the author. Both of these two types of jobs are exceedingly rare. Most people must: a) live where they work and b) work where they live.

So basically I think this article is about as helpful as the other Atlantic article: not very.

Exactly! I was surprised no one else mentioned this. If I were expecting an inheritance I, too, would be very relaxed about making $40K while raising a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a follow up to that Atlantic article that was discussed on here recently ("The Secret Shame of the Middle Class.") She's basically saying the author should have left the NYC area for a fly over state. Applies to us schmucks in DC too, I guess. What do you think?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/low-overhead-life/480612/

I haven't read this thread but I did read many of the Disqus comments to the Atlantic article and I recommend you do also. People made some good points that picked apart most of the article. I can summarize:

1) The author talks about living "surrounded by poverty" but Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb of Cleveland with a high median income and excellent schools.

2) The author briefly mentions that her parents are loaded but does not expand on how this has affected or will affect her life. In particular, she does not mention whether or not she is expecting a large inheritance. If she is, this would make her very relaxed about her retirement and would make it more psychologically comfortable to earn a low income.

3) The reason why the rust belt cities are cheap is partly because they are not blessed by world-class climate or geographical beauty, but mostly because the local economy is on a long downward slide with jobs and population both decreasing, and house prices falling or flat. Therefore, moving to the rust belt or deep south for a "low overhead life" is only feasible if you have one of the very few good jobs in the area (doctor at Clevelan Clinic, tenured professor at Case Western), or you have a work-from-anywhere job like the author. Both of these two types of jobs are exceedingly rare. Most people must: a) live where they work and b) work where they live.

So basically I think this article is about as helpful as the other Atlantic article: not very.

Idk. My in laws live in upstate NY. They all live in a nice inner city suburb with beautiful Tudor and craftsman houses dating from the 20s-40s that cost well under 500k. Schools are among the best in the state. They live near a major research university so neighbors tend to be politically liberal and well educated. Commutes are super short and hardly deserve the word. My BIL once let it slip to my DH that he makes well over 500k (way more than us here in DC). My MIL and FIL have a second home in the 1000 islands and my BIL and SIL are thinking about buying in the finger lakes area. They have a country club membership at a golf course considered to be one of the best in the country. There are lots of parks nearby if you like hiking and nature, a world class children's museum, a very good local symphony, lots of festivals in the summer. They often take off for the weekend and go skiing in the Adirondacks. Things that suck: winter if you hate the snow (which I personally don't) and high property taxes. But those taxes are partially what make the schools so good so they say it's hard to complain too much. I've been trying to get my DH to move back but he's a fed so he's reluctant to venture back into the private sector.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm guessing Ithaca is cheap but Berkeley and Cville are as expensive as DC.

Ithaca is cheap bc there is a serious job problem in upstate NY. It's fine if your work for Cornell or Ithaca College or are in healthcare and can get a job at one of the regional health systems or doctors offices. Aside from that -- it's tough going in finance, law etc. as those were all support industries in the big manufacturing corporations, many of which have now moved down south or out of the country.

I feel like Penn State people are always clamoring to go back to State College. Again not sure what there is to do there jobwise, unless you work for Penn State.

Because it's a pretty awesome QoL all things considered, if you can nab a job at one of those places. There are UMC and wealthy people all over the country, you know, not just in the biggest cities. Think about living in Ithaca and making $250k plus. Pretty nice if you can swing it.

[Anonymous]

PP, are you talking about Rochester, New York?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a follow up to that Atlantic article that was discussed on here recently ("The Secret Shame of the Middle Class.") She's basically saying the author should have left the NYC area for a fly over state. Applies to us schmucks in DC too, I guess. What do you think?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/low-overhead-life/480612/

I haven't read this thread but I did read many of the Disqus comments to the Atlantic article and I recommend you do also. People made some good points that picked apart most of the article. I can summarize:

1) The author talks about living "surrounded by poverty" but Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb of Cleveland with a high median income and excellent schools.

2) The author briefly mentions that her parents are loaded but does not expand on how this has affected or will affect her life. In particular, she does not mention whether or not she is expecting a large inheritance. If she is, this would make her very relaxed about her retirement and would make it more psychologically comfortable to earn a low income.

3) The reason why the rust belt cities are cheap is partly because they are not blessed by world-class climate or geographical beauty, but mostly because the local economy is on a long downward slide with jobs and population both decreasing, and house prices falling or flat. Therefore, moving to the rust belt or deep south for a "low overhead life" is only feasible if you have one of the very few good jobs in the area (doctor at Clevelan Clinic, tenured professor at Case Western), or you have a work-from-anywhere job like the author. Both of these two types of jobs are exceedingly rare. Most people must: a) live where they work and b) work where they live.

So basically I think this article is about as helpful as the other Atlantic article: not very.

Work from home is becoming much more common. My DH works for a hedge fund based out of DE and WFH most of the time. He travels in to the office occasionally but it's only a few days a month so no big deal. We live in DC because we went to school here and my family is from here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, are you talking about Rochester, New York?

Yep!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all about perspective and where you're coming from. Lots of NYC friends have opted out of the NYC/North Jersey/Long Island/CT madness and have settled here in DC and LOVE the cost of living, esp. real estate. But then I know DC folks who are moving off to Houston bc the DC COL is too much and they can get more house in Texas.

That's my husband, a NY to DC transplant.

+1 I can't get over how low the property taxes are in the DC area. On the other hand, I think restaurants are just as expensive (if not more so) than the ones we left behind in our northern NJ inner ring suburb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a follow up to that Atlantic article that was discussed on here recently ("The Secret Shame of the Middle Class.") She's basically saying the author should have left the NYC area for a fly over state. Applies to us schmucks in DC too, I guess. What do you think?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/low-overhead-life/480612/

I haven't read this thread but I did read many of the Disqus comments to the Atlantic article and I recommend you do also. People made some good points that picked apart most of the article. I can summarize:

1) The author talks about living "surrounded by poverty" but Shaker Heights is an affluent suburb of Cleveland with a high median income and excellent schools.

2) The author briefly mentions that her parents are loaded but does not expand on how this has affected or will affect her life. In particular, she does not mention whether or not she is expecting a large inheritance. If she is, this would make her very relaxed about her retirement and would make it more psychologically comfortable to earn a low income.

3) The reason why the rust belt cities are cheap is partly because they are not blessed by world-class climate or geographical beauty, but mostly because the local economy is on a long downward slide with jobs and population both decreasing, and house prices falling or flat. Therefore, moving to the rust belt or deep south for a "low overhead life" is only feasible if you have one of the very few good jobs in the area (doctor at Clevelan Clinic, tenured professor at Case Western), or you have a work-from-anywhere job like the author. Both of these two types of jobs are exceedingly rare. Most people must: a) live where they work and b) work where they live.

So basically I think this article is about as helpful as the other Atlantic article: not very.

Idk. My in laws live in upstate NY. They all live in a nice inner city suburb with beautiful Tudor and craftsman houses dating from the 20s-40s that cost well under 500k. Schools are among the best in the state. They live near a major research university so neighbors tend to be politically liberal and well educated. Commutes are super short and hardly deserve the word. My BIL once let it slip to my DH that he makes well over 500k (way more than us here in DC). My MIL and FIL have a second home in the 1000 islands and my BIL and SIL are thinking about buying in the finger lakes area. They have a country club membership at a golf course considered to be one of the best in the country. There are lots of parks nearby if you like hiking and nature, a world class children's museum, a very good local symphony, lots of festivals in the summer. They often take off for the weekend and go skiing in the Adirondacks. Things that suck: winter if you hate the snow (which I personally don't) and high property taxes. But those taxes are partially what make the schools so good so they say it's hard to complain too much. I've been trying to get my DH to move back but he's a fed so he's reluctant to venture back into the private sector.

Rochester!!!

[Anonymous]

The author didn't mean that she was surrounded poverty specifically in Shaker Heights - she meant in Cleveland, and Ohio, more broadly.

And certainly, moving to a lower COL of city won't work for people whose jobs are specifically tied to DC or NYC. But there really are lots of jobs outside these two cities, in all kinds of fields.