Estranged and it feels so good

[Anonymous]

When one of your siblings has choked you by the throat against a wall when you were 10, and another hit you repeatedly everyday for years, and your parents did nothing about it, then the same siblings sexually abuse you, you get back to me on that whole happy sappy your kids will judge you , etc bs. Most of my family is horrible and I understand, OP.
And also, my grown daughter and I are very close. We just talked today and she said, I love you mommy. I broke the cycle with love and good parenting. +1 on the FU to the unsympathetic posters. Family is often rife with abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it's a lot easier for other family members when the victim is "cordial" about the abuse.

Amen.

Sometimes the abuser won't accept limited cordial contact. They often act out with anger or violence. Guess we should just lie flatter and make ourselves easier targets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't cut off but completely distanced myself and it has been freeing. It is so nice to not be put in a bad mood for two days after every interaction, not cry all the time. I no longer feel guilt for everything they are mad that I am or I am not doing.
I haven't closed the door but I don't fee obligated to call or visit or share things with them. It really is freeing.

When the meanness starts, I know that's my cue to get off the phone!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^wrong on all accounts. I have lived through and witnessed entire families destroyed because someone (my sibling) decided to cut of family members. It us possible to protect yourself without dragging everyone else into your drama and dysfunctional relationships--and this grand declarations do just that.

+1 NP and another person who has witnessed sibling estrangement and how it hurts everyone around them, in my own family. I've also noticed (with friends and family who have experienced this), that its rarely just one toxic person at play. If you ask people with at least a little bit of emotional distance from the situation, they see things a bit differently.

I have a toxic person in my life, and FWIW, I just minimize contact and do not make grand gestures. I stay cordial. This has allowed relationships besides mine to flourish.

I have a toxic parent and I minimize contact rather than resort to estrangement, and it works fine for me.

But if I get to the point where estrangement is necessary, I will not hesitate to do so. If I make that choice, it does not mean that I am also toxic; it means that I am doing the healthiest thing for myself and my family.

It is really pretty bold to suggest how abuse victims deal with their abusers is wrong. That's victim blaming, pure and simple.

I am the second PP you have quoted above. All I meant is that I dont go out of my way to avoid them. I.e.,if I know there is a family party, and they are there, I dont avoid the party. I say hello, how are you, that is it. I allow my kids to (briefly) talk to them. I dont talk with my kids about this person (unless they ask) because that would give this person too much importance. My kids are very indifferent to this person because I act indifferent. At this point, its been so long, that I actually truly FEEL indifferent.

I dont presume to know what works in other situations or for other families, just that this is fine for mine.

I dont blame the abused, as I was one, but I have done enough therapy - years - to know that I could exist in the same community as this person without getting sucked in.

If you were sexually abused by that person would you still go to the party? Would you subject your children to that person?
Is this your advice for people who have been assaulted or sexually abused by someone else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^wrong on all accounts. I have lived through and witnessed entire families destroyed because someone (my sibling) decided to cut of family members. It us possible to protect yourself without dragging everyone else into your drama and dysfunctional relationships--and this grand declarations do just that.

+1 NP and another person who has witnessed sibling estrangement and how it hurts everyone around them, in my own family. I've also noticed (with friends and family who have experienced this), that its rarely just one toxic person at play. If you ask people with at least a little bit of emotional distance from the situation, they see things a bit differently.

I have a toxic person in my life, and FWIW, I just minimize contact and do not make grand gestures. I stay cordial. This has allowed relationships besides mine to flourish.

I have a toxic parent and I minimize contact rather than resort to estrangement, and it works fine for me.

But if I get to the point where estrangement is necessary, I will not hesitate to do so. If I make that choice, it does not mean that I am also toxic; it means that I am doing the healthiest thing for myself and my family.

It is really pretty bold to suggest how abuse victims deal with their abusers is wrong. That's victim blaming, pure and simple.

I am the second PP you have quoted above. All I meant is that I dont go out of my way to avoid them. I.e.,if I know there is a family party, and they are there, I dont avoid the party. I say hello, how are you, that is it. I allow my kids to (briefly) talk to them. I dont talk with my kids about this person (unless they ask) because that would give this person too much importance. My kids are very indifferent to this person because I act indifferent. At this point, its been so long, that I actually truly FEEL indifferent.

I dont presume to know what works in other situations or for other families, just that this is fine for mine.

I dont blame the abused, as I was one, but I have done enough therapy - years - to know that I could exist in the same community as this person without getting sucked in.

If you were sexually abused by that person would you still go to the party? Would you subject your children to that person?
Is this your advice for people who have been assaulted or sexually abused by someone else?

Over the years navigating the painful realities of an abusive family, I've learned that there are some people who insist, regardless of their familiarity with the circumstances, that the person who leaves a family could have or should have stayed. When I meet these people IRL they fall into one of three categories: people whose family challenges in no way compared to what I went through; people who are still unhappily struggling to find the right balance and boundaries with their own families; and those who have the same dominant, bossy tendencies as the difficult people in a family -- who believe that whatever unkindness one person heaps on another, you're supposed to come back for more.

It is never someone stronger, more mature, or balanced than me. I'm a great mother with many friends and a solid marriage. I went into education so I could offer young people the kind of guidance I never had. I serve my community through weekly volunteering and leadership in my kids' activities. Eventually a highly competent and experienced trauma therapist said there was simply no way to safely engage with these people and that our work should be about finding the strength to leave and to forgive myself for what I'd been conditioned to view as a betrayal -- which is how they hung on to me through age 40.

Nobody on the internet or IRL knows more about this than I do.

On line it's tough to know whether a commenter is well - meaning but ill-equipped to understand or simply inured to cycles of abuse and therefore likely to attack people who escape. I don't need to know.

I will say that if you're tempted to type out a post calling someone else the problem, or less mature, or saying that the person doesn't know how to strike the right balance, think again. You're both wrong and unkind and you do no one a lick of good.

[Anonymous]

+1 OP

I know where you are coming from. It's been close to a year since I've had contact with my toxic father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how you will feel when it is your children judging and cutting you off?

NP here. There's always one of you who has no idea what it's like to have a toxic parent. And, who doesn't believe how painful and horrible it is.

Go F yourself.

Let it go.

[Anonymous]

I lost so much weight when I ceased any relationship with my toxic family member. It's been such a relief emotionally, and physically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how you will feel when it is your children judging and cutting you off?

Lovely. I'm guessing that since I'm neither a sociopath or an alcoholic I might do a little better.

You may not though. Think of yourself as a living example for your kids. They will treat you just as you treat your parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how you will feel when it is your children judging and cutting you off?

Lovely. I'm guessing that since I'm neither a sociopath or an alcoholic I might do a little better.

You may not though. Think of yourself as a living example for your kids. They will treat you just as you treat your parents.

Comments like this make me feel so bad for people that had manipulative, emotionally abusive parents. My parents were pretty great (all things considered), but I ache for people that had parents like pp above. Holding your kids hostage out of guilt and manipulation is not love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how you will feel when it is your children judging and cutting you off?

Lovely. I'm guessing that since I'm neither a sociopath or an alcoholic I might do a little better.

You may not though. Think of yourself as a living example for your kids. They will treat you just as you treat your parents.

Actually it's not good for children to witness their parents being abused, or to be abused themselves. PP and her children will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^wrong on all accounts. I have lived through and witnessed entire families destroyed because someone (my sibling) decided to cut of family members. It us possible to protect yourself without dragging everyone else into your drama and dysfunctional relationships--and this grand declarations do just that.

+1 NP and another person who has witnessed sibling estrangement and how it hurts everyone around them, in my own family. I've also noticed (with friends and family who have experienced this), that its rarely just one toxic person at play. If you ask people with at least a little bit of emotional distance from the situation, they see things a bit differently.

I have a toxic person in my life, and FWIW, I just minimize contact and do not make grand gestures. I stay cordial. This has allowed relationships besides mine to flourish.

I have a toxic parent and I minimize contact rather than resort to estrangement, and it works fine for me.

But if I get to the point where estrangement is necessary, I will not hesitate to do so. If I make that choice, it does not mean that I am also toxic; it means that I am doing the healthiest thing for myself and my family.

It is really pretty bold to suggest how abuse victims deal with their abusers is wrong. That's victim blaming, pure and simple.

I am the second PP you have quoted above. All I meant is that I dont go out of my way to avoid them. I.e.,if I know there is a family party, and they are there, I dont avoid the party. I say hello, how are you, that is it. I allow my kids to (briefly) talk to them. I dont talk with my kids about this person (unless they ask) because that would give this person too much importance. My kids are very indifferent to this person because I act indifferent. At this point, its been so long, that I actually truly FEEL indifferent.

I dont presume to know what works in other situations or for other families, just that this is fine for mine.

I dont blame the abused, as I was one, but I have done enough therapy - years - to know that I could exist in the same community as this person without getting sucked in.

If you were sexually abused by that person would you still go to the party? Would you subject your children to that person?
Is this your advice for people who have been assaulted or sexually abused by someone else?

I haven't looked at this thread in a while, but no, I wouldn't give this advice to anyone sexually abused. I was not. I wouldn't give this advice to anyone physically abused either. I was not.
Those are different things.
I would never claim to understand all forms of abuse, or to even suggest that my situation applies broadly.
I was emotionally/verbally abused for decades and for whatever reason I thought OP was talking about a toxic family member.
Apologies to anyone I offended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^wrong on all accounts. I have lived through and witnessed entire families destroyed because someone (my sibling) decided to cut of family members. It us possible to protect yourself without dragging everyone else into your drama and dysfunctional relationships--and this grand declarations do just that.

With all completely undue respect for someone who's taking credit for maintaining family relationships that are not mine while presuming you could have / should have lived through mine:

Fuck you. Seriously. You can never tell another human being she should have to survive abuse. How dare you?

Btw we finally left when abuse started affecting my children. When they started manipulating and lying to them, making them cry to us in their confusion, we called it quits.

If you'd expose your child to emotional abuse and be proud of it, well then double fuck you.

You sound more than a little "toxic" yourself--not to mentioned unhinged. It is pretty clear that you need to work on your own issues before casting aspersions at others.

No, she sounds fine and you sound condescending. What do you know about her life? Stop being a judgemental beyotch for 2 seconds and consider just how bad it must have gotten for her to cut off her mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't cut off but completely distanced myself and it has been freeing. It is so nice to not be put in a bad mood for two days after every interaction, not cry all the time. I no longer feel guilt for everything they are mad that I am or I am not doing.
I haven't closed the door but I don't fee obligated to call or visit or share things with them. It really is freeing.

Me too. I still allow them to interact with the kids, with a very vigilant eye. They are on probation.

[Anonymous]

Life is far too short to force yourself to be surrounded by people who truly do not love nor respect you. Estrangement is sad but also, very therapeutic. Anyone who has gone through this understands that it is both a blessing and a curse but always a cure.