Mother Being Secretive about Will

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you are begrudging your stepfather money from a business that he has successfully helped run for 25 years? Stop it.

Apologize to your mom, and then leave it alone.

No, I am not begrudging him money.

The issue from my point of view is that he is not our dad.

If my mom leaves him her estate when she dies, it's very possible that he could remarry and not leave my brother or I anything at all later on. The thought of that is upsetting because I already feel a great deal of resentment about neglect due to her relationship with my stepdad, which i feel she prioritizes. My mom sent me to boarding school when I was 9 years old so that she could spend more time with my step dad. My step dad was not open to bringing my brother into the business, which would not have been true if it was his own child. However, he did lead him on about it for several years, during which my brother worked for the business with the hopes of being brought in in a more serious way. This is time he could have spent preparing for a different career.

As I said above, the issue is loaded with emotional baggage.

Well in your original post you said it was something you thought was very normal to ask, but clearly given the backstory you knew it wasn't.

If your mom sent you away at age 9 to spend more time with step father why in the world would you think she would prioritize you now over him?

Also you are assuming if your father lived he would have ran the business successfully and passed it along to your brother.
Neither of those things are guarantees, though I have much empathy for your loss and need to almost fantasize about your father and create such a wonderful image in your head of who he was and would have been. (I do that as well)

However the fact remains that your step father ran the business for 25 years and the successes are due largely to him and your mom.
It doesn't take away from what your father started, but business's fail all the time and this one didn't.

I get that, but, my mom runs the business just as much as my stepdad does. In fact, she is far more prudent. My step dad would objectively NOT have done as well without her.

I think most moms would want to make sure that their kids (or even skip over kids and go right to grandkids) got part of that hard work. If she leaves everything to him, someone who is not our dad then that's not really looking out for her own family. I'm prepared that it might happen. But I felt compelled to make my point in light of the fact that you seemed to assume that my stepdad was the brains of the operation.

OP, in a situation like this, it would not be uncommon at all for someone to leave everything to their spouse rather than their kids, or perhaps to put it all into a trust for the benefit of the spouse during their lifetime and with the kids to get the remainder. I understand you're in a lot of pain and it sounds like there are very valid reasons for that, but your expectations on this issue (that parents should leave a business like this to their kids instead of the spouse; that your mother would tell you her estate plans) are not, objectively, reasonable, let alone reasonable for your family situation.

OP again. I actually disagree with this. Especially because he is wealthy in his own right. And for the record, they have always maintained separate personal finances. They are planning to sell the business in the next few years (this was one reason given for excluding my brother) as well as handful of properties in an effort to simplify when my mom retires. My stepdad has another, separate business on top of the other one that is completely his. That is where is time is going to go when my mom retires and they sell the first business.

To be clear, I wouldn't expect my mom to take something out from underneath my stepdad when she dies. I am really referring to what will be liquid assets of her own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you and your brother, OP? Have you considered therapy to help you deal with the feelings all of this has created for you? It sounds painful, and I'm sorry for you.

I'm 31 and my brother is 30. Haha, and yes, lot's of therapy

I've made a lot of progress healing from pain related to my past. I'm also very lucky in that my DH is a wonderful man, and his family treats me like a daughter and it feels great.

focus on this.

My biological grandmother passed over a cousin in favor of me for a small inheritance that was largely sentimental. My cousin had not seen our grandmother in the five years before her death and did not need the bequest from a financial standpoint, whereas I had visited frequently and at the time actually needed the money from the sale of most of the jewelry. I've tried for ten years to repair the rift with my cousin, including splitting the jewelry with her. Meanwhile, she was treated so well by our step-grandmother and married into a family where she is doted on as the sole DIL and mother of grandchildren. She has let the bitterness mar every single holiday for a decade.

OP here: Wow, I'm sorry about that. These things get really crazy, it's true.

I will definitely focus on the wonderful family I was lucky enough to marry into. They are very loving, and because of my own family, I really feel the difference. I am glad my kids will get to have them, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op you are making a lot of assumptions about why your mom has done or not done certain things without actually getting her side of the story. We we presume to know someone else's intentions we often get it wrong because we are inserting out own pain and judgment into the assumption. You should have a nonjudgmental discussion with your mom about your feelings (unrelated to the will or any financial issues). Perhaps then you can understand why she has made certain choices and find peace.

I know you don't know me, but I ask you to trust my judgement. It's been painful to wake up the reality of my mom. For a long time I had a more charitable interpretation until those rose colored glasses could no longer be maintained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would add this.

A decade ago, a friend's mother died. She had circumstances very similar to your mother's. She had remarried after being widowed. The second husband was younger and successful.

The mother and stepfather ran a very popular restaurant until the stepfather's adult children took over. Then the mother and stepfather went traveling for roughly five years. The mother developed BC and returned to the US for treatment. She didn't respond and soon died.

Before her mother died, my friend's husband pressured her to ask what was going to happen to the first estate: a small rented out house and some money left from the first husband. It was known to be modest, but he wanted to make sure that it didn't go to the stepfather.

So as my friend's mother was dying, she was asking her about the will. The mother shushed her out of the hospice room and called her attorney. She died a couple days later still not speaking to her daughter.

When the will was read, my friend learned that the mother and stepfather had originally intended to split both estates among the 4 adult children (my friend and her stepsiblings). instead, my friend inherited her biological parents' modest estate and would get nothing at all from the stepfather's much larger one.

It put a crack in the my friend's marriage that has never healed.

I'd point out that it sounds like the estate would go to the 4 upon the 2nd death (in this case, the stepfather).... with there being nothing keeping stepfather from changing his will later to favor his 3 kids and not your friend. Can't assume it would, but the longer the time between the death of the first spouse and the death of the second, the more often plans set up by both to honor the wishes of the first spouse to die get lost in time.

I'm not defending that, assuming it would happen, etc, but DW and I just had this very conversation with our own (very experienced) estate planning attorney re: my own desire to have certain bequests or beneficiaries protected should I die first. I want DW to be completely protected financially and the bequests are upon the second death, but of course once the first spouse dies unless restrictive provisions are in place the surviving spouse can do what they want with what they have in their estate.

Not negating any of your point, just pointing out an additional wrinkle...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would add this.

A decade ago, a friend's mother died. She had circumstances very similar to your mother's. She had remarried after being widowed. The second husband was younger and successful.

The mother and stepfather ran a very popular restaurant until the stepfather's adult children took over. Then the mother and stepfather went traveling for roughly five years. The mother developed BC and returned to the US for treatment. She didn't respond and soon died.

Before her mother died, my friend's husband pressured her to ask what was going to happen to the first estate: a small rented out house and some money left from the first husband. It was known to be modest, but he wanted to make sure that it didn't go to the stepfather.

So as my friend's mother was dying, she was asking her about the will. The mother shushed her out of the hospice room and called her attorney. She died a couple days later still not speaking to her daughter.

When the will was read, my friend learned that the mother and stepfather had originally intended to split both estates among the 4 adult children (my friend and her stepsiblings). instead, my friend inherited her biological parents' modest estate and would get nothing at all from the stepfather's much larger one.

It put a crack in the my friend's marriage that has never healed.

I'd point out that it sounds like the estate would go to the 4 upon the 2nd death (in this case, the stepfather).... with there being nothing keeping stepfather from changing his will later to favor his 3 kids and not your friend. Can't assume it would, but the longer the time between the death of the first spouse and the death of the second, the more often plans set up by both to honor the wishes of the first spouse to die get lost in time.

I'm not defending that, assuming it would happen, etc, but DW and I just had this very conversation with our own (very experienced) estate planning attorney re: my own desire to have certain bequests or beneficiaries protected should I die first. I want DW to be completely protected financially and the bequests are upon the second death, but of course once the first spouse dies unless restrictive provisions are in place the surviving spouse can do what they want with what they have in their estate.

Not negating any of your point, just pointing out an additional wrinkle...

p.s. in my own family everything was transparent and my parents included me in planning once they were in their 80s since I was an executor and a trustee under their estate plans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would add this.

A decade ago, a friend's mother died. She had circumstances very similar to your mother's. She had remarried after being widowed. The second husband was younger and successful.

The mother and stepfather ran a very popular restaurant until the stepfather's adult children took over. Then the mother and stepfather went traveling for roughly five years. The mother developed BC and returned to the US for treatment. She didn't respond and soon died.

Before her mother died, my friend's husband pressured her to ask what was going to happen to the first estate: a small rented out house and some money left from the first husband. It was known to be modest, but he wanted to make sure that it didn't go to the stepfather.

So as my friend's mother was dying, she was asking her about the will. The mother shushed her out of the hospice room and called her attorney. She died a couple days later still not speaking to her daughter.

When the will was read, my friend learned that the mother and stepfather had originally intended to split both estates among the 4 adult children (my friend and her stepsiblings). instead, my friend inherited her biological parents' modest estate and would get nothing at all from the stepfather's much larger one.

It put a crack in the my friend's marriage that has never healed.

I'd point out that it sounds like the estate would go to the 4 upon the 2nd death (in this case, the stepfather).... with there being nothing keeping stepfather from changing his will later to favor his 3 kids and not your friend. Can't assume it would, but the longer the time between the death of the first spouse and the death of the second, the more often plans set up by both to honor the wishes of the first spouse to die get lost in time.

I'm not defending that, assuming it would happen, etc, but DW and I just had this very conversation with our own (very experienced) estate planning attorney re: my own desire to have certain bequests or beneficiaries protected should I die first. I want DW to be completely protected financially and the bequests are upon the second death, but of course once the first spouse dies unless restrictive provisions are in place the surviving spouse can do what they want with what they have in their estate.

Not negating any of your point, just pointing out an additional wrinkle...

You're correct. It could have panned out that way in the end. Maybe my friend's husband just hastened the process along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would add this.

A decade ago, a friend's mother died. She had circumstances very similar to your mother's. She had remarried after being widowed. The second husband was younger and successful.

The mother and stepfather ran a very popular restaurant until the stepfather's adult children took over. Then the mother and stepfather went traveling for roughly five years. The mother developed BC and returned to the US for treatment. She didn't respond and soon died.

Before her mother died, my friend's husband pressured her to ask what was going to happen to the first estate: a small rented out house and some money left from the first husband. It was known to be modest, but he wanted to make sure that it didn't go to the stepfather.

So as my friend's mother was dying, she was asking her about the will. The mother shushed her out of the hospice room and called her attorney. She died a couple days later still not speaking to her daughter.

When the will was read, my friend learned that the mother and stepfather had originally intended to split both estates among the 4 adult children (my friend and her stepsiblings). instead, my friend inherited her biological parents' modest estate and would get nothing at all from the stepfather's much larger one.

It put a crack in the my friend's marriage that has never healed.

I'd point out that it sounds like the estate would go to the 4 upon the 2nd death (in this case, the stepfather).... with there being nothing keeping stepfather from changing his will later to favor his 3 kids and not your friend. Can't assume it would, but the longer the time between the death of the first spouse and the death of the second, the more often plans set up by both to honor the wishes of the first spouse to die get lost in time.

I'm not defending that, assuming it would happen, etc, but DW and I just had this very conversation with our own (very experienced) estate planning attorney re: my own desire to have certain bequests or beneficiaries protected should I die first. I want DW to be completely protected financially and the bequests are upon the second death, but of course once the first spouse dies unless restrictive provisions are in place the surviving spouse can do what they want with what they have in their estate.

Not negating any of your point, just pointing out an additional wrinkle...

You're correct. It could have panned out that way in the end. Maybe my friend's husband just hastened the process along.

This is pretty much exactly my point.

[Anonymous]

OP, what were you looking to get out of this thread? It doesn't sound like you're receptive to any feedback, because you've argued with pretty much everyone who's offered a differing point of view. You seem very invested in your narrative of what's happened and what "should" happen, and unwilling to consider anything else. You might find more therapy to be helpful, especially with a new therapist who may be able to give you a different perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you are begrudging your stepfather money from a business that he has successfully helped run for 25 years? Stop it.

Apologize to your mom, and then leave it alone.

No, I am not begrudging him money.

The issue from my point of view is that he is not our dad.

If my mom leaves him her estate when she dies, it's very possible that he could remarry and not leave my brother or I anything at all later on. The thought of that is upsetting because I already feel a great deal of resentment about neglect due to her relationship with my stepdad, which i feel she prioritizes. My mom sent me to boarding school when I was 9 years old so that she could spend more time with my step dad. My step dad was not open to bringing my brother into the business, which would not have been true if it was his own child. However, he did lead him on about it for several years, during which my brother worked for the business with the hopes of being brought in in a more serious way. This is time he could have spent preparing for a different career.

As I said above, the issue is loaded with emotional baggage.

Well in your original post you said it was something you thought was very normal to ask, but clearly given the backstory you knew it wasn't.

If your mom sent you away at age 9 to spend more time with step father why in the world would you think she would prioritize you now over him?

Also you are assuming if your father lived he would have ran the business successfully and passed it along to your brother.
Neither of those things are guarantees, though I have much empathy for your loss and need to almost fantasize about your father and create such a wonderful image in your head of who he was and would have been. (I do that as well)

However the fact remains that your step father ran the business for 25 years and the successes are due largely to him and your mom.
It doesn't take away from what your father started, but business's fail all the time and this one didn't.

I get that, but, my mom runs the business just as much as my stepdad does. In fact, she is far more prudent. My step dad would objectively NOT have done as well without her.

I think most moms would want to make sure that their kids (or even skip over kids and go right to grandkids) got part of that hard work. If she leaves everything to him, someone who is not our dad then that's not really looking out for her own family. I'm prepared that it might happen. But I felt compelled to make my point in light of the fact that you seemed to assume that my stepdad was the brains of the operation.

I don't think anyone is going to change your mind, but your mother and stepfather are just as married and just as much of a couple as your dad and mom were.
He IS her family.
If your father had left everything to you in a trust and tried to take away their joint assets from your mom when he died to give to you, that would have been crazy talk right?
It's the same thing here.
They are married and ran a business together as you readily admit.
Your mother is not going to give you part of their joint business over him when he is still alive.
It doesn't matter how rich he is or how unfair you think it is the he gets even more money than he already has.
I'm sorry you are in such pain over this but zoning in on this business and the money is going to make things worse for you, and is not going to give you any clarity or peace with your mom.
I'm truly sorry OP but you need to let this go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, what were you looking to get out of this thread? It doesn't sound like you're receptive to any feedback, because you've argued with pretty much everyone who's offered a differing point of view. You seem very invested in your narrative of what's happened and what "should" happen, and unwilling to consider anything else. You might find more therapy to be helpful, especially with a new therapist who may be able to give you a different perspective.

I just wanted to hear other people's opinions. Even if I ultimately disagreed with some of them. I wanted to gage what a larger sample of people would think about the topic.

What I did agree with is that I should move on from the topic and not bring it up with my mom again. I agree with that 100%, and I will let it go.

[Anonymous]

Ugh, OP. I'm sure your dad is rolling over in his grave to know that his children are going to be supplanted in favor of your mom's boytoy. Disgusting.

And as to everyone out there saying, "oh, well, he could have done it differently, but didn't"--I call bullshit. 99% of people on this forum have an estate plan that would effectively do the same thing--leave everything to spouse, under the presumption (but no legal requirement) that the residual go to the children. No one does it differently, because everyone (stupidly) trusts their spouse to be smart and loyal to their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you are begrudging your stepfather money from a business that he has successfully helped run for 25 years? Stop it.

Apologize to your mom, and then leave it alone.

No, I am not begrudging him money.

The issue from my point of view is that he is not our dad.

If my mom leaves him her estate when she dies, it's very possible that he could remarry and not leave my brother or I anything at all later on. The thought of that is upsetting because I already feel a great deal of resentment about neglect due to her relationship with my stepdad, which i feel she prioritizes. My mom sent me to boarding school when I was 9 years old so that she could spend more time with my step dad. My step dad was not open to bringing my brother into the business, which would not have been true if it was his own child. However, he did lead him on about it for several years, during which my brother worked for the business with the hopes of being brought in in a more serious way. This is time he could have spent preparing for a different career.

As I said above, the issue is loaded with emotional baggage.

Leave it alone op. Plan on getting nothing and be surprised if you do. Damn the entitlement of some people here!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It was very wrong of you to ask. What your mother does with her money upon her death is up to her. She doesn't need to discuss it with anyone but her attorney.

This. Plus, the fact that you asked makes me think there is bad blood between you and your step father, and she probably saw your question as a reflection of that. I can't see why else you would ever ask? If your dad wanted you to have some of the business, he would have willed it to you himself. Don't put this on your mom and stepdad.

[Anonymous]

Expect nothing.

If she's been that neglectful of you emotionally, I'd reconsider maintaining a relationship with her, honestly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you are begrudging your stepfather money from a business that he has successfully helped run for 25 years? Stop it.

Apologize to your mom, and then leave it alone.

This