S/O - Good Kids Being Paired with the *Bad Kid*
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Anonymous
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I think the key is how often this happens and how does the class as a whole function. Absolutely, there can be some value in being the "good kid" helping a classmate (academically or behaviorally) But there is also value in learning from peers. The problem is when the same kids are always on the same side of the equation. So if quiet, calm, smart little Suzy is ALWAYS the helped, and antsy, struggling Judy is ALWAYS the one who is getting the help, both kids are getting terrible messages and not receiving a fair education.
Mixing it up so that everyone has a chance to lead and everyone has a chance to learn is a great thing, but certainly takes more work from the teacher, and frankly can sometimes be hard to find the opportunity for some kids to be on one side or the other of the equation. That's one of the reasons Montessori mixed aged classrooms can be so powerful when used correctly - no matter how brilliant a 6 year old may be, there's always something they can learn from a 9 year old, and no matter how much a 9 year old may struggle, after 3 years in a class there's always something they'll be able to teach to their classmates. |
Anonymous
| For the lady claiming that it's a win win for both parties, it's not if the 'good kid' has spectrum, social issues. I never figured out social interactions with other children and in retrospect, I feel that allowing me to 'run' the reading group for the other children, having me keep tabs on the classroom when the teacher took a coffee break, allowing me to grade the other student's papers, sending me to the library to shelve books, etc. probably was not in my best interest. It set me apart from the regular students and I had very little empathy for the other students, since I regarded myself as some sort of 'junior teacher' throughout elementary school. Back in those days, we didn't have name's like Asperger's, but these days, if you have identified a child as being bright but with social issues, I would assume you would be trying to help them fit in with the other students and not setting them apart in this way. |
Anonymous
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I was OK with it until I realized my child was next to the disruptive kid for months on end. Also he was the one who sat at the back of the story time rug because the disruptive kids had to sit up front. So he was by himself in the back for months on end.
I expressed my concern to the teacher and he was moved. He needed a break from being the "good quiet kid who gets forgotten." |
Anonymous
| Your young daughter should not be put in this position. She is not a caretaker. It is way too much responsibility without any benefit for your daughter. |
Anonymous
They shouldn't have singled you out to be a "junior teacher" like that. You felt different already and that was the teacher saying - "you ARE different kiddo". However, you may have felt different if you had been paired with a couple of other more socially adept (but academically struggling) kids on a group project. You would have been the smart, well behaved one who led the project and showed the others how to get the work done. Or....you could have been the shy, quiet one who was paired with a bunch of slackers who only goofed off and didn't give a crap whether the work got done or not. |
Anonymous
| Is there any research that suggests this is best practice? |
Anonymous
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I was a MS Home Ec teacher. I always put my most difficult kids together. Instead of having 4-5 disruptive kids spread out across the classroom, they were all at one table. I put their table next to the best behaved kids. I could focus my attention on the disruptive kids and try to nip things in the bud before they spiraled out of control.
I also found that unlike Math or English, we were doing activities and that helped the most disruptive kids. I was usually surprised at how well the most disruptive kids would do when working on an activity. I found that most of them were good kids that just struggled with impulse control. There was usually one butthead kid that got off on being disruptive. When placed with good kids, they would passively sit there or tremble in fear. But when the butthead kid was with other disruptive kids, they usually stood up to him (yes, it was usually boys). PS--In MS, never put a super disruptive boy at the same table as girls (unless they are super mature, boys are stupid mentality). At that age, the girls will totally think the boy is soooo cool for being disruptive and he'll just get a major ego boost. |
Anonymous
| Should the pairing ever exist, sure! Does it happen too much? Depends on the teacher and it may not be deliberate. The teacher just think - things are running smoothly why make any changes. Parents or kids have to voice their displeasure. Again, even an academic year may be ok. At least I/my kid has tolerance for that. There are positive lessons everyone can take away from the experience of being the helper. But a real problem develops when the next school year begins, the next teacher (or something in a school file somewhere) says, "oh, and real it works out well to put Mary and Susie together. Mary is so helpful!" |
Anonymous
This has happened to my daughter as well. She's been placed with "the" disruptive girl for 5 years (PK, K, 1, 2, 3). It's the only kid she's been forwarded with year in and year out (out of a pool of 130). It's getting to be a joke in our family because i know without looking at the class list that our kids will be together. |
Anonymous
| I was your daughter in grade school, and I would come home in tears convinced that my teacher hated me because I was always being put next to the kids who were misbehaving. I think it's fair to ask a kid to pair with the "bad kid" (quotation marks to indicate that I'm not a fan of the term) sometimes, and that it could be a good learning experience for the "good kid," but (1) it should not be all the time, and (2) she should not be held responsible for that kid's behavior--no prizes based on group performance, no grades based on group projects, etc. She's a kid, and it's not fair to evaluate her school performance based on her ability to get another kid to behave. And, if pairing with the other kid is adversely affecting her (he ruins her work, bullies her, etc.) then it needs to stop. No one kid should be asked to bear that all the time. |
Anonymous
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As a parent who has both types of kids I hope I can provide some perspective. I don't think any child should have to be asked to work with a challenging classmate if it stresses her out, but I want to point out that there can be as much good in that pairing for the "nice" kid as for the "bad" kid.
DS1 is incredibly empathetic and has strong academics and is often paired with classmates who have trouble following the curriculum or who struggle socially. It has been great for him. He has a lot of extra time on his hands after finishing his own work and this keeps him occupied and prevents him from being bored. He has also become very good at teaching things. The other type of child he gets along well with are the ones that are very physical or that tease or both. Many other kids either don't want to work with them or would start crying if they had to deal with some of the things they say or do. DS1 has learned how to firmly express his disappointment with the behaviors but still be be a friend. This has helped him mature in his own social skills. He and some of his friends were recently being bullied by older kids but he was the one that told the teachers he would handle it, stood up to the bullies and made them go away. I think he was able to self-advocate in this way because of his experiences dealing with some of his more difficult classmates. Now our younger DC2 is the opposite and it makes me feel like throwing up to think DC2 may be the kid some of you are talking about. He's smart but does not like to do schoolwork and can act out. He tends to be paired with "nice" kids who try their hardest, are kind, patient and who don't judge him for acting the way he does sometimes. When DC2 is with these children he actually behaves very well and is a good partner. (He's never messed up other kids' work or anything like that.) Now my child has special needs, but you wouldn't know that from looking at him. He's trying his hardest to be "good" but it's not as easy for him as other children. I once met the mother of one of these "nice" children and she was also really kind to me saying her daughter was really enjoying being being paired up with DS2 and gave me specific examples of why. It meant the world to me that both the mother and her daughter saw the "good" in DS2. I hope some of you parents of "nice" kids try see how fortunate you are. |
Anonymous
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I remember when *I* was in sixth grade and really struggling with math, that my teacher asked this boy Michael to help me. For a few weeks during our free time, he'd come over and teach me what we'd just learned that day. From him, I understood somehow, and I appreciated it so much that I apparently remember. But
1. this didn't last more than a month 2. i helped michael with his essays since i was great at wrting So we both got something out of it and it was temporary. Long-term it wouldn't have been fair to him. |
Anonymous
My DS was "that kid" in his early elementary school years. We were seeking help from the adults at the school (via behavior assessment and program, 504 plan, resource person pull in or pull out, etc.) We got "no" at every turn. Now I know who they were expecting to be the helpers---your children. Please know that many parents are very working hard, behinds the scenes, with the administration and school system trying to get their kids *appropriate* help and support but many times end up in situations as you describe. Seems a bit unfair to both parties. Just a view from the other side. |
Anonymous
This is exactly what I was thinking. We've had the luxury of private schooling for two years, where he's done fabulously, but I'm preparing myself for the battle when we sent him back to public school next year just to get the help he needs so he doesn't come home in tears every day. |
Anonymous
| Yes, it happened to us. The teacher called it "classroom management." She was very proud of figuring out who worked well with who. Translation, my quiet, inattentive kid got paired up all year with the most distracting child with anger management issues (the child that was kicked out at the end of the year for violent behavior). It was a bad year. I didn't wise up to it until most of the year was over and then I was counting on a teacher recommendation for a new school (moving). So didn't say a word. Still feel annoyed at paying private school tuition for that experience. |