Fundamentalist "Believers" next door pressuring us

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't be so gentle anymore. A child pressuring you, commenting on how often your kids went to tennis camp?! My response would have been "You're being very nosy and you need to stop."

I would let the mother/parents know, not so gently, that the pressure is unappreciated and is beginning to affect your wanting to spend time around them, or having their kids with your kids.

Gentle isn't going to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't be so gentle anymore. A child pressuring you, commenting on how often your kids went to tennis camp?! My response would have been "You're being very nosy and you need to stop."

I would let the mother/parents know, not so gently, that the pressure is unappreciated and is beginning to affect your wanting to spend time around them, or having their kids with your kids.

Gentle isn't going to work.

+1.

Your neighbors have boundary issues. Their child is acting inappropriately. You need to politely disengage from them.

[Anonymous]

Can we pray for OP and her neighbor?

[Anonymous]

Op, try not to get wrapped up in this drama. Your focus on the little neighbor girl isn't going to do your family any good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think it's great that you are being generous with your time and home with the older child (and tolerant of the toddler). If it were me, I would be really put off by a family that is more than happy to have you (essentially) babysit and take their child on adventures, but cannot even bother to speak with you or acknowledge you.

You ARE right
I've spoken with them now, well sent an email to be sure they got all the information - and offered to speak about it in person as a follow-up. I was mostly explicit about backing off the religious talk. This was 3 days ago and I have not heard back from the mother - not a word about it.

The daughter being very cool with me but still has the nerve to knock on the door to ask the boys to play (fine) while ignoring me or eyeing me with disdain/hostility. I'm certainly going to call her out on this if it continues. So you identified probably an even more relevant issue: ignoring and silence which make up the little slights that are actually bullying. A popular form of bullying.

The father did respond, and quickly, w/ msg mostly saying his daughter is new to her faith and figuring out how to handle it. He placed all the responsibility and accountability of everything I said on the daughter. Then he added how much she loves our sons and the other child loves my husband. Again - message being? I am the evil one they don't like? How about thanking me for actually being the facilitator for my children to be so nice, friendly, fun and easygoing and our house being one they want to come to? Nope! Someone else must have made all that happen - couldn't have been me!

Re. the mom not wanting to engage with me, how do women treat each other in these fundamentalist Christian denominations? I only have one friend who belongs to one. And she is so nice and focused on her family and being a good person that she can ignore the #$%&; to a point. She's also very wealthy so maybe in her church she's handled carefully.

Do the teachings of righteousness and exclusivity cultivate more cattiness and haughtiness than other settings/teachings? I'm thinking of ISIL and the voluntary brides of ISIL leaders who abuse their "inferiors" - other women - so badly. Is it fair to compare? For people who've experienced fundamentalist Christianity is ignoring/blaming/judging (I think this is form of bullying) common among church members?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think it's great that you are being generous with your time and home with the older child (and tolerant of the toddler). If it were me, I would be really put off by a family that is more than happy to have you (essentially) babysit and take their child on adventures, but cannot even bother to speak with you or acknowledge you.

You ARE right
I've spoken with them now, well sent an email to be sure they got all the information - and offered to speak about it in person as a follow-up. I was mostly explicit about backing off the religious talk. This was 3 days ago and I have not heard back from the mother - not a word about it.

The daughter being very cool with me but still has the nerve to knock on the door to ask the boys to play (fine) while ignoring me or eyeing me with disdain/hostility. I'm certainly going to call her out on this if it continues. So you identified probably an even more relevant issue: ignoring and silence which make up the little slights that are actually bullying. A popular form of bullying.

The father did respond, and quickly, w/ msg mostly saying his daughter is new to her faith and figuring out how to handle it. He placed all the responsibility and accountability of everything I said on the daughter. Then he added how much she loves our sons and the other child loves my husband. Again - message being? I am the evil one they don't like? How about thanking me for actually being the facilitator for my children to be so nice, friendly, fun and easygoing and our house being one they want to come to? Nope! Someone else must have made all that happen - couldn't have been me!

Re. the mom not wanting to engage with me, how do women treat each other in these fundamentalist Christian denominations? I only have one friend who belongs to one. And she is so nice and focused on her family and being a good person that she can ignore the #$%&; to a point. She's also very wealthy so maybe in her church she's handled carefully.

Do the teachings of righteousness and exclusivity cultivate more cattiness and haughtiness than other settings/teachings? I'm thinking of ISIL and the voluntary brides of ISIL leaders who abuse their "inferiors" - other women - so badly. Is it fair to compare? For people who've experienced fundamentalist Christianity is ignoring/blaming/judging (I think this is form of bullying) common among church members?

You're making quite a jump. Fundamentalist Christian (I'm not one, BTW) does not mean you're a shitty neighbor and that you raise rude kids. And I won't address the parallel you drew to ISIL. You have to be kidding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think it's great that you are being generous with your time and home with the older child (and tolerant of the toddler). If it were me, I would be really put off by a family that is more than happy to have you (essentially) babysit and take their child on adventures, but cannot even bother to speak with you or acknowledge you.

You ARE right
I've spoken with them now, well sent an email to be sure they got all the information - and offered to speak about it in person as a follow-up. I was mostly explicit about backing off the religious talk. This was 3 days ago and I have not heard back from the mother - not a word about it.

The daughter being very cool with me but still has the nerve to knock on the door to ask the boys to play (fine) while ignoring me or eyeing me with disdain/hostility. I'm certainly going to call her out on this if it continues. So you identified probably an even more relevant issue: ignoring and silence which make up the little slights that are actually bullying. A popular form of bullying.

The father did respond, and quickly, w/ msg mostly saying his daughter is new to her faith and figuring out how to handle it. He placed all the responsibility and accountability of everything I said on the daughter. Then he added how much she loves our sons and the other child loves my husband. Again - message being? I am the evil one they don't like? How about thanking me for actually being the facilitator for my children to be so nice, friendly, fun and easygoing and our house being one they want to come to? Nope! Someone else must have made all that happen - couldn't have been me!

Re. the mom not wanting to engage with me, how do women treat each other in these fundamentalist Christian denominations? I only have one friend who belongs to one. And she is so nice and focused on her family and being a good person that she can ignore the #$%&; to a point. She's also very wealthy so maybe in her church she's handled carefully.

Do the teachings of righteousness and exclusivity cultivate more cattiness and haughtiness than other settings/teachings? I'm thinking of ISIL and the voluntary brides of ISIL leaders who abuse their "inferiors" - other women - so badly. Is it fair to compare? For people who've experienced fundamentalist Christianity is ignoring/blaming/judging (I think this is form of bullying) common among church members?

You're making quite a jump. Fundamentalist Christian (I'm not one, BTW) does not mean you're a shitty neighbor and that you raise rude kids. And I won't address the parallel you drew to ISIL. You have to be kidding.

NOT kidding. Social control; apocalyptic focus; domination; conformity... These groups have much in common. Luckily in a democracy we can keep these folks' ambitions in check but unleashed I'm guessing the world as they would have it would not look very different from Islamic jihadist fundamentalist groups. Ok - good point - ISIL is not a country... maybe got carried away there... OK. I am just terrified of such groups and their thinking. Thats also why stressing so much over these neighbors.

[Anonymous]

Yes forgive me if it sounds extreme but I find these extreme believers disturbing anyway and if only these neighbors had proved my impressions wrong...
If anyone has ever read Margaret Atwood's A Handmaid's Tale you'll know what I mean.

[Anonymous]

Whoa OP.

You lost my sympathy at your last few posts. You went from reasonable to horrific and judgemental in just a few taps on the keyboard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whoa OP.

You lost my sympathy at your last few posts. You went from reasonable to horrific and judgemental in just a few taps on the keyboard.

Fair enough! Criticism accepted! Of course I don't see the neighbors in these extreme ways. However sometimes to accept a difficult situation I will follow something on a continuum to its extreme... or worst case scenario...to understand and follow the continuum the other way as well. I don't cling to those results of course - its more to see where something could lead. And I am personally terrified by religious or other group-think that can take over even sensible people's choices. Think Nazis - although not grounded in religion they started in neighborhoods. Then began creating Gaus in neighborhoods and we all know how that ended up.

NOT that I think that would happen here or especially even with these neighbors - I'm not saying that - but it does help me to look at the psychology of it, even if its extreme and not real in the present context. Rest assured I am sensible in the end. I was hoping for a response on how women in these sorts of Christian fundamentalist groups treat one another but yes took that too far.

If I'm judging the neighbors (honestly how can I not at this point) I'm balancing it out with telling myself "oh of course they believe that b/c it helps them with xyz..." Humanizing. Thats what is important to remember.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whoa OP.

You lost my sympathy at your last few posts. You went from reasonable to horrific and judgemental in just a few taps on the keyboard.

Fair enough! Criticism accepted! Of course I don't see the neighbors in these extreme ways. However sometimes to accept a difficult situation I will follow something on a continuum to its extreme... or worst case scenario...to understand and follow the continuum the other way as well. I don't cling to those results of course - its more to see where something could lead. And I am personally terrified by religious or other group-think that can take over even sensible people's choices. Think Nazis - although not grounded in religion they started in neighborhoods. Then began creating Gaus in neighborhoods and we all know how that ended up.

NOT that I think that would happen here or especially even with these neighbors - I'm not saying that - but it does help me to look at the psychology of it, even if its extreme and not real in the present context. Rest assured I am sensible in the end. I was hoping for a response on how women in these sorts of Christian fundamentalist groups treat one another but yes took that too far.

If I'm judging the neighbors (honestly how can I not at this point) I'm balancing it out with telling myself "oh of course they believe that b/c it helps them with xyz..." Humanizing. Thats what is important to remember.

Yes, I read the Handmaiden's tale. Yes, I sympathize with your concerns, but am overall optimistic that fundamentalists will not prevail. However, in your little corner of the world, I'd carefully protect your children as you seem to be doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whoa OP.

You lost my sympathy at your last few posts. You went from reasonable to horrific and judgemental in just a few taps on the keyboard.

You still have my sympathy, OP, because I have been there and I know you are just frustrated and venting. Vent away, thats what anonymous forums are for.

I have a Christian fundamentalist family in my neighborhood and their kids have tried preaching to my children and to the children of a jewish family in the neighborhood too.

The Jewish family seemed a bit upset. I am not overly bothered because I know those kids mean well. Their christian fundamentalist faith asks them do that. We are a practicing Muslim family. When their son tried to preach to my son, he just said, "We are Muslim and we have different beliefs than you."

That ended it.

Just tell them you are not looking for any church right now. If they invite you to any church activity, simply decline. I would remain patient because they are your neighbor and they don't mean any harm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We like our next-door neighbors well enough; they seem mostly responsible, maintain their house and yard nicely and would help us w/ something small if we needed it (collect mail if out of town, etc.) Our children play together outside (no fences) and we bring their daughter with us sometimes to do fun things b/c the mom decides to stay at home a lot with the younger two we think because she finds it difficult to manage them out in public and because she is pregnant with her 4th baby. So the oldest who is close to our 2 kids' age can get out into the world some with us. Lately its hard to have this child around because she presses us on our church attendance and constantly invites us to attend her family's church events and ask us if we've found a church yet. The parents also ask us if we've found a church here yet. We are always shocked by this. We've moved to the area a year ago and just haven't decided yet where to go or even how often to go. Its absolutely none of their business. We are both Christian families but ours is a very different denomination. They are fundamentalist "believers". We are Episcopalians. To them it seems we might as well be non-Christian. It is getting really annoying. They seem to be under instruction to "recruit" us. Our denomination approaches religion as a private matter. The mother taught vacation bible school this summer and asked if our kids could go. She rarely issues any sort of invitation or initiates conversation but with this she was very strong. Our kids had tennis camp scheduled that week so couldn't go. The family didn't talk to us for a few weeks afterward (we didn't miss them!) Now the kids come over again and the daughter continues to ask why we didn't attend VBS as though its highly personal to her (she is 7). This weekend I finally said: "your mother already knows why the boys could not go so please ask her and quit asking us - the boys had tennis camp - leave it alone!" She said "well they didn't have tennis camp every day!" In fact they did - so what, were they watching our comings and goings that week? Its getting weird and delusional. Additionally, the two younger children do not get out much and the toddler they think is the cutest human ever has horrible social skills and breaks things in our yard and has tantrums. Mom stays home - literally - and seems to mostly keep them at home with her, until our sons get home then she lets the toddler loose and he heads to our house. They do get out to church meetings/services/events. Does anyone know if this has to do with believers beliefs? Is the outside world beyond the church threatening? Are environments where you are surrounded only by people who agree with you the only "safe" and therefore ok ones? Our family views the worlds completely differently - embrace differences as they give life texture and interest. We are excellent neighbors by any standard and they would agree to that. We are very giving with them including giving them hand-me downs we could sell, little presents now and then, taking the daughter with us hiking, looking after their dog when they were out of town. Our sons are very well behaved and have excellent manners (everyone says so) and are trying to be patient with all the religion questioning. So far they just change the subject when it comes up. This family doesn't do much for us in return (we don't ask them for anything), and this nagging is increasing. We're anticipating this negative stuff to increase when the new baby arrives, as it seems to be increasing as the pregnancy advances. Please advise.

This is not a forum for self-publishing a poorly written novella.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We like our next-door neighbors well enough; they seem mostly responsible, maintain their house and yard nicely and would help us w/ something small if we needed it (collect mail if out of town, etc.) Our children play together outside (no fences) and we bring their daughter with us sometimes to do fun things b/c the mom decides to stay at home a lot with the younger two we think because she finds it difficult to manage them out in public and because she is pregnant with her 4th baby. So the oldest who is close to our 2 kids' age can get out into the world some with us. Lately its hard to have this child around because she presses us on our church attendance and constantly invites us to attend her family's church events and ask us if we've found a church yet. The parents also ask us if we've found a church here yet. We are always shocked by this. We've moved to the area a year ago and just haven't decided yet where to go or even how often to go. Its absolutely none of their business. We are both Christian families but ours is a very different denomination. They are fundamentalist "believers". We are Episcopalians. To them it seems we might as well be non-Christian. It is getting really annoying. They seem to be under instruction to "recruit" us. Our denomination approaches religion as a private matter. The mother taught vacation bible school this summer and asked if our kids could go. She rarely issues any sort of invitation or initiates conversation but with this she was very strong. Our kids had tennis camp scheduled that week so couldn't go. The family didn't talk to us for a few weeks afterward (we didn't miss them!) Now the kids come over again and the daughter continues to ask why we didn't attend VBS as though its highly personal to her (she is 7). This weekend I finally said: "your mother already knows why the boys could not go so please ask her and quit asking us - the boys had tennis camp - leave it alone!" She said "well they didn't have tennis camp every day!" In fact they did - so what, were they watching our comings and goings that week? Its getting weird and delusional. Additionally, the two younger children do not get out much and the toddler they think is the cutest human ever has horrible social skills and breaks things in our yard and has tantrums. Mom stays home - literally - and seems to mostly keep them at home with her, until our sons get home then she lets the toddler loose and he heads to our house. They do get out to church meetings/services/events. Does anyone know if this has to do with believers beliefs? Is the outside world beyond the church threatening? Are environments where you are surrounded only by people who agree with you the only "safe" and therefore ok ones? Our family views the worlds completely differently - embrace differences as they give life texture and interest. We are excellent neighbors by any standard and they would agree to that. We are very giving with them including giving them hand-me downs we could sell, little presents now and then, taking the daughter with us hiking, looking after their dog when they were out of town. Our sons are very well behaved and have excellent manners (everyone says so) and are trying to be patient with all the religion questioning. So far they just change the subject when it comes up. This family doesn't do much for us in return (we don't ask them for anything), and this nagging is increasing. We're anticipating this negative stuff to increase when the new baby arrives, as it seems to be increasing as the pregnancy advances. Please advise.

This is not a forum for self-publishing a poorly written novella.

Apparently, it's a forum for delivering petty insults

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Do the teachings of righteousness and exclusivity cultivate more cattiness and haughtiness than other settings/teachings? I'm thinking of ISIL and the voluntary brides of ISIL leaders who abuse their "inferiors" - other women - so badly. Is it fair to compare? For people who've experienced fundamentalist Christianity is ignoring/blaming/judging (I think this is form of bullying) common among church members?

You are not a good person.