Asian students dominate admissions to elite Thomas Jefferson High School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, the problem with the TJ application process is it attempts to be too objective: admission is primarily based on a test for pre-screening, and essay, and GPA. The big problem though, is the pre-screening process is based just on GPA and the test. It has nothing to do with STEM interest. And it removes well rounded students.

The process is purely designed to minimize workload of the admissions. I bet if the 7 and 8th grade teachers were more involved in the process, then you would have a different student body.

Well-rounded is overrated. Being objective is a good thing.

...if you want a school full of robots

NP here. No, well-rounded is how less qualified white applicants get into schools where they are too lazy to work hard enough to get in academically. The diligent white students still get in. It's for legacy, athletic and lazy/smart white kids who use well-roundedness as a form of white privilege to get into schools that they did not work hard enough to get into.

There are many minority "well rounded" students who don't seem to get a pass through on the same credentials. I've seen many minorities who are well-rounded, but can't get in without the academic credentials, but that doesn't seem to stop the white candidates without the academic credentials. Like the Asian kid who was a school standout on the tennis team, was a math league competitor, editor of the school yearbook, but "only" had a 4.1 GPA who didn't get in while a white kid who was a mediocre track athlete, participated in band and had a 4.0 GPA did get in. Same school.

Maybe the white kid had something else to offer? Or fit some box they were looking to fill? Personality, perhaps? Not that much difference between a 4.1 and a 4.0 -- that would be enough for both kids to make the first cut presumably, then the other things would come into play.

[Anonymous]

^^^ It's always funny that people seem to think college acceptance is all about stats. So many factors that even people who are privy to the stats (if they in fact are) don't know the first thing about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So now the whites are in favor of affirmative action.

Whites have always been in favor of affirmative action. How else do you think the majority race put the policy into action?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with TJ is the test prep. Both whites and Asians get an unfair advantage on this front and the Asian test camp use 'JJs' which is a form of recall cheating.

The same phenomonom is seen with the same two groups in SATs, LSATs, GMATS, etc., all the way down to the recall and often "live question "cheating.

And for the record the JJ's used to be exclusive to Asian communities, because they would be taught in non-English first. But it is increasingly becoming common in white test prep centers to originating from New York and spreading out.

What's this? TIA

What are JJs?

[Anonymous]

Here's an interesting Slate column by an Asian-American columnist who attended Stuyvesant HS in NYC, making the case for closing Stuyvesant.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/07/the_case_for_shutting_down_stuyvesant_high_school_the_best_public_school.html

TJ increasingly resembles Stuyvesant, but for the fact that students at TJ and other FCPS high schools are generally more affluent than students at Stuy and other NYC high schools. Some might argue that that gives Salam's arguments even greater weight insofar as TJ is concerned.

He argues that the DeBlasio-type demands to reform Stuyvesant's admissions policies miss the point: "Instead of reinventing Stuyvesant from the ground up, we should instead recognize that it never made sense for one warehouse of a school to hoover up such a big chunk of the city’s whiz kids."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue with TJ is the test prep. Both whites and Asians get an unfair advantage on this front and the Asian test camp use 'JJs' which is a form of recall cheating.

The same phenomonom is seen with the same two groups in SATs, LSATs, GMATS, etc., all the way down to the recall and often "live question "cheating.

And for the record the JJ's used to be exclusive to Asian communities, because they would be taught in non-English first. But it is increasingly becoming common in white test prep centers to originating from New York and spreading out.

Can some one please explain what are JJs ...and what in the world is recall cheating ???

[Anonymous]

I'm curious too. I guess its like Fight Club lol.

[Anonymous]

I don't know what "jj"s are, but recall cheating is when people study (memorize) banks of compiled past test questions. There was a scandal with the radiology boards a few years ago: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/13/health/prescription-for-cheating/

[Anonymous]

You have to keep a B average to stay in TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have to keep a B average to stay in TJ.

Yes, cumulative at the end of each year. And A and a C = a cumulative B (more or less). I guess I should have said, students get Cs at TJ (imo a single C = a C student)

[Anonymous]

After reading about jj's, I'm really glad neither my kids nor I am driven enough to get into tj (or want to get them into tj). That is some kind of pressure ...and for what? Success is great, but it's not better than being accepted and loved by your family.

So glad I am not in an area of fcps where this kind of pressure is common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After reading about jj's, I'm really glad neither my kids nor I am driven enough to get into tj (or want to get them into tj). That is some kind of pressure ...and for what? Success is great, but it's not better than being accepted and loved by your family.

So glad I am not in an area of fcps where this kind of pressure is common.

Once these kids are in the workforce, they can experience failure the thrive in a career. Having the ability to create and communicate effectively with co-workers thumps the ability to spew out information.

I work with many "top" Indians and Chinese and see their lack of productive thinking outside the box as a huge problem to be successful.

[Anonymous]

If they're not recycling the same questions, the most effective way to study the kind of questions they ask is to study the questions they have asked in the past. If they are recycling questions, then they're stupid.

This is how test prep for the LSAT has been done for a long time. If anything, they should just release the questions so everyone can use them to study.

[Anonymous]

They do release the questions for the next round of test takers. There is a study guide you can download from FCPS website. FCPS provides prep classes for 7th graders. No one is cheating by taking practice tests. As with the SAT (and LSAT and GMAT) and any professional exam (medical boards, bar, CPA) or even the test for your drivers permit ... if you care about the outcome of the test you are best served by studying what could be on the test. And what any testing organization actually asks on a future test is usually - not always - similar to what they asked before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading about jj's, I'm really glad neither my kids nor I am driven enough to get into tj (or want to get them into tj). That is some kind of pressure ...and for what? Success is great, but it's not better than being accepted and loved by your family.

So glad I am not in an area of fcps where this kind of pressure is common.

Once these kids are in the workforce, they can experience failure the thrive in a career. Having the ability to create and communicate effectively with co-workers thumps the ability to spew out information.

I work with many "top" Indians and Chinese and see their lack of productive thinking outside the box as a huge problem to be successful.

The kids that sheet, and more specifically the families that sheet, or not because they can't do well on the test anyway. It is to get a leg up over all of the other kids that can do well enough. You have to understand that cheating to maximize opportunities is how people can get ahead, it does not mean that they are ill prepared for other things in life because they cheated on entrance exams. It means they have more often better pedigrees and more opportunities as a result. It isn't fair, but in environments that are hypercompetitive it is one way to stand out.