I am a Muslim woman married to a Christian man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the "she's a hypocrite" poster. I'm one of the multiple posters who sees a problem for OP when she and her spouse have children.

I'm one of the earlier posters too who suggested she should think about it. It doesn't have to be a problem but it does need thinking through. I posted a list of questions I suggest they think about, so I think I've been helpful without being critical by sharing my experiences about marrying and raising children with a Muslim husband.

[Anonymous]

While the Quran may not have an explicit prohibition against women marrying Christians, in a very deep cultural way it is believed that children are the faith of their fathers.

While a Muslim convert has to say the shehada to become a Muslim, the child of a Muslim man is never expected to say the shehada to prove he or she is Muslim. This is not unlike the situation in Israel--if someone is the child of a Jewish mother he is automatically considered Jewish even if he or she is an theist. But if someone is the child of Jewish father and a non-Jewish mother, he or she must go through an orthodox conversion process (much more onerous than simply reciting the shehada) in order to be considered Jewish in Israel for civil matters.

In any case, this is why families in the Middle East sometimes conduct honor killings if their Muslim daughter marries a Christian. Indeed, there are honor killings of Christian women who marry Muslims, even if he has converted to Christianity. For civil purposes in a country that has Islam as, for want of a better term, the state religion in the latter case the conversion would not be recognized

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People like the OP are hypocrites.

You are Muslim, and have remained a Muslim. At least the remaining part is a conscious choice because you believe this is the right way, the one true way to be with God for eternity.

The same for your husband.

You cannot believe in only one true way, but then think that a different way is also a "beautiful way to know God".

If you fancy yourself a person of faith, it should be backed up with conviction. Otherwise you are just a hollow practitioner of rituals.

OP here. Islam considers Christians and Jews as "people of the book" and hence people who have received prior revelations similar to the one Muhammad (PBUH) received. While I only consider Jesus to be a prophet of God, I view Catholics as a people with a legitimate pathway to God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People like the OP are hypocrites.

You are Muslim, and have remained a Muslim. At least the remaining part is a conscious choice because you believe this is the right way, the one true way to be with God for eternity.

The same for your husband.

You cannot believe in only one true way, but then think that a different way is also a "beautiful way to know God".

If you fancy yourself a person of faith, it should be backed up with conviction. Otherwise you are just a hollow practitioner of rituals.

That's your opinion. It's entirely possible to be a member of one faith but also recognize the legitimacy of the other pathways to God without wanting to appropriate it.

I didn't say it wasn't possible. Obviously it's possible since that's exactly what the OP did. The charge is that it is hypocritical.

Saying that you are a Muslim is to say that the teachings of the Koran is true, and therefore Jesus was not the Son of God and there is no original sin. This is at odds with what a Catholic believes. Either one of you is right, or both of you are wrong. Both of you can't be right about this as there is no middle ground. If you claim that you are a Muslim, indicating that you believe Jesus was just another prophet, and that people are not born into original sin, but yet you turn around and acknowledge that Catholicism is another valid way to know God, then that demonstrates you don't actually believe in the fundamental claims of Islam, the very definition of a hypocrite. This is not my opinion.

OP here. You don't seem to understand that it is possible to respect someone's belief system without believing in it yourself. If my husband best understand's God's message in the way Catholics believe, then that is his right as a human being and as God's creature to continue to believe it. I do not become a "bad" Muslim because I give him that respect given to him as a "person of the book".

That's the tricky part about faith isn't it? Everyone has faith that their belief is the most sensible and true. If it was an established fact this whole shebang that is the universe wouldn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While the Quran may not have an explicit prohibition against women marrying Christians, in a very deep cultural way it is believed that children are the faith of their fathers.

While a Muslim convert has to say the shehada to become a Muslim, the child of a Muslim man is never expected to say the shehada to prove he or she is Muslim. This is not unlike the situation in Israel--if someone is the child of a Jewish mother he is automatically considered Jewish even if he or she is an theist. But if someone is the child of Jewish father and a non-Jewish mother, he or she must go through an orthodox conversion process (much more onerous than simply reciting the shehada) in order to be considered Jewish in Israel for civil matters.

In any case, this is why families in the Middle East sometimes conduct honor killings if their Muslim daughter marries a Christian. Indeed, there are honor killings of Christian women who marry Muslims, even if he has converted to Christianity. For civil purposes in a country that has Islam as, for want of a better term, the state religion in the latter case the conversion would not be recognized

OP here. That may be true but you forget that in Islam a lot of emphasis is placed on the mother. The Prophet has said, 'Paradise lies at the feet of your mother' [Musnad Ahmad, Sunan An-Nasâ’i, Sunan Ibn Mâjah]

Considering the importance given to motherhood and mothers in islam, it makes no sense that a muslim man is allowed to have his children be raised by a christian or jewish mother and children of a Muslim mother are deemed not muslim? Makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While the Quran may not have an explicit prohibition against women marrying Christians, in a very deep cultural way it is believed that children are the faith of their fathers.

While a Muslim convert has to say the shehada to become a Muslim, the child of a Muslim man is never expected to say the shehada to prove he or she is Muslim. This is not unlike the situation in Israel--if someone is the child of a Jewish mother he is automatically considered Jewish even if he or she is an theist. But if someone is the child of Jewish father and a non-Jewish mother, he or she must go through an orthodox conversion process (much more onerous than simply reciting the shehada) in order to be considered Jewish in Israel for civil matters.

In any case, this is why families in the Middle East sometimes conduct honor killings if their Muslim daughter marries a Christian. Indeed, there are honor killings of Christian women who marry Muslims, even if he has converted to Christianity. For civil purposes in a country that has Islam as, for want of a better term, the state religion in the latter case the conversion would not be recognized

OP here. That may be true but you forget that in Islam a lot of emphasis is placed on the mother. The Prophet has said, 'Paradise lies at the feet of your mother' [Musnad Ahmad, Sunan An-Nasâ’i, Sunan Ibn Mâjah]

Considering the importance given to motherhood and mothers in islam, it makes no sense that a muslim man is allowed to have his children be raised by a christian or jewish mother and children of a Muslim mother are deemed not muslim? Makes no sense.

It doesn't. Religious matters are not often driven by sense. There is nothing in Islam, as you know, that makes your children non-Muslim because they are born to a Muslim mother and not a Muslim father. As you no doubt know, Islamic scripture considers all children to be born Muslim in their purest state. Islamic law may regard your marriage outside of what is permissible in Islam, but it does not affect the religious affiliation of your children.

Assuming you live in a secular state, your children will be whatever you and your husband decide together. What Islamic law says on the matter is less relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While the Quran may not have an explicit prohibition against women marrying Christians, in a very deep cultural way it is believed that children are the faith of their fathers.

While a Muslim convert has to say the shehada to become a Muslim, the child of a Muslim man is never expected to say the shehada to prove he or she is Muslim. This is not unlike the situation in Israel--if someone is the child of a Jewish mother he is automatically considered Jewish even if he or she is an theist. But if someone is the child of Jewish father and a non-Jewish mother, he or she must go through an orthodox conversion process (much more onerous than simply reciting the shehada) in order to be considered Jewish in Israel for civil matters.

In any case, this is why families in the Middle East sometimes conduct honor killings if their Muslim daughter marries a Christian. Indeed, there are honor killings of Christian women who marry Muslims, even if he has converted to Christianity. For civil purposes in a country that has Islam as, for want of a better term, the state religion in the latter case the conversion would not be recognized

OP here. That may be true but you forget that in Islam a lot of emphasis is placed on the mother. The Prophet has said, 'Paradise lies at the feet of your mother' [Musnad Ahmad, Sunan An-Nasâ’i, Sunan Ibn Mâjah]

Considering the importance given to motherhood and mothers in islam, it makes no sense that a muslim man is allowed to have his children be raised by a christian or jewish mother and children of a Muslim mother are deemed not muslim? Makes no sense.

It doesn't. Religious matters are not often driven by sense. There is nothing in Islam, as you know, that makes your children non-Muslim because they are born to a Muslim mother and not a Muslim father. As you no doubt know, Islamic scripture considers all children to be born Muslim in their purest state. Islamic law may regard your marriage outside of what is permissible in Islam, but it does not affect the religious affiliation of your children.

Assuming you live in a secular state, your children will be whatever you and your husband decide together. What Islamic law says on the matter is less relevant.

Yes. I don't know, I don't agree with the current mainstream interpretation and application of Islam in the world. If you actually take a moment to look at the text you'd see that its actually pretty modern and way more accommodating than most modern Muslims would have you believe. I reject the current islamic doctrine and think it is antiquated and very literal. The Quran is meant to be a guidance for all times and the inherent ambiguity of the text is not meant to be read literally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People like the OP are hypocrites.

You are Muslim, and have remained a Muslim. At least the remaining part is a conscious choice because you believe this is the right way, the one true way to be with God for eternity.

The same for your husband.

You cannot believe in only one true way, but then think that a different way is also a "beautiful way to know God".

If you fancy yourself a person of faith, it should be backed up with conviction. Otherwise you are just a hollow practitioner of rituals.

OP here. Islam considers Christians and Jews as "people of the book" and hence people who have received prior revelations similar to the one Muhammad (PBUH) received. While I only consider Jesus to be a prophet of God, I view Catholics as a people with a legitimate pathway to God.

Sorry, that's not possible. As a Muslim, you believe in worshiping God and only God, yes? Christians worship Jesus, as he is the Son of God and also is God. To you Jesus is just a prophet and cannot be worshiped together with God. So how can that be a legitimate pathway to God? The view that Christians and Jews are "people of the book" is convenient but not a universal view within the Muslim community. Certainly the foundations of the major religions are so different and the fundamental beliefs so at odds that it's more reasonable to assert that Christians and Jews are "kafir".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People like the OP are hypocrites.

You are Muslim, and have remained a Muslim. At least the remaining part is a conscious choice because you believe this is the right way, the one true way to be with God for eternity.

The same for your husband.

You cannot believe in only one true way, but then think that a different way is also a "beautiful way to know God".

If you fancy yourself a person of faith, it should be backed up with conviction. Otherwise you are just a hollow practitioner of rituals.

OP here. Islam considers Christians and Jews as "people of the book" and hence people who have received prior revelations similar to the one Muhammad (PBUH) received. While I only consider Jesus to be a prophet of God, I view Catholics as a people with a legitimate pathway to God.

Sorry, that's not possible. As a Muslim, you believe in worshiping God and only God, yes? Christians worship Jesus, as he is the Son of God and also is God. To you Jesus is just a prophet and cannot be worshiped together with God. So how can that be a legitimate pathway to God? The view that Christians and Jews are "people of the book" is convenient but not a universal view within the Muslim community. Certainly the foundations of the major religions are so different and the fundamental beliefs so at odds that it's more reasonable to assert that Christians and Jews are "kafir".

Why are you telling her what is and is not possible in her religion? And since when is religion governed by reason? Why are you grilling her?

OP, I'm sorry you are getting so much grief here. It's not universal. My suggestion is to ignore the belligerent Christians and answer the questions well-meaning others asked you. You don't need to justify your beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. You don't seem to understand that it is possible to respect someone's belief system without believing in it yourself. If my husband best understand's God's message in the way Catholics believe, then that is his right as a human being and as God's creature to continue to believe it. I do not become a "bad" Muslim because I give him that respect given to him as a "person of the book".

I understand that perfectly. But you said that you felt that Catholicism is a beautiful way to understand God. This goes far beyond acknowledging that others may hold different religious beliefs. This is in fact saying that you believe Catholicisms, including the worship of Jesus as God, is not only legitimate, but praise worthy. You cannot believe this and also be a Muslim at the same time. By worshiping a prophet rather than the one true God, Christians are doing a very poor job of understanding God.

I am also not calling you a bad Muslim. There are no bad Muslims to me within this context.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Why are you telling her what is and is not possible in her religion? And since when is religion governed by reason? Why are you grilling her?

What do you mean why? Is any of what I said wrong about Islam? Feel free to correct any mistakes I've made. I am not grilling her, just want to voice the concern that people should be honest to themselves about what they believe in. If you believe in something enough to devote your life to it, then why would you be receptive to ideas that is at odds with your belief?

I hope people involve reason in everything, including their spirituality. Otherwise what would you have left, mysticism?

Anonymous wrote:
OP, I'm sorry you are getting so much grief here. It's not universal. My suggestion is to ignore the belligerent Christians and answer the questions well-meaning others asked you. You don't need to justify your beliefs.

I'm not a Christian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Why are you telling her what is and is not possible in her religion? And since when is religion governed by reason? Why are you grilling her?

What do you mean why? Is any of what I said wrong about Islam? Feel free to correct any mistakes I've made. I am not grilling her, just want to voice the concern that people should be honest to themselves about what they believe in. If you believe in something enough to devote your life to it, then why would you be receptive to ideas that is at odds with your belief?

I hope people involve reason in everything, including their spirituality. Otherwise what would you have left, mysticism?

Anonymous wrote:
OP, I'm sorry you are getting so much grief here. It's not universal. My suggestion is to ignore the belligerent Christians and answer the questions well-meaning others asked you. You don't need to justify your beliefs.

I'm not a Christian.

None of that is up to you. She's free to believe however she likes, and to interpret her faith however she likes. She doesn't owe you any answers about her beliefs, and they don't need to make sense to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People like the OP are hypocrites.

You are Muslim, and have remained a Muslim. At least the remaining part is a conscious choice because you believe this is the right way, the one true way to be with God for eternity.

The same for your husband.

You cannot believe in only one true way, but then think that a different way is also a "beautiful way to know God".

If you fancy yourself a person of faith, it should be backed up with conviction. Otherwise you are just a hollow practitioner of rituals.

OP here. Islam considers Christians and Jews as "people of the book" and hence people who have received prior revelations similar to the one Muhammad (PBUH) received. While I only consider Jesus to be a prophet of God, I view Catholics as a people with a legitimate pathway to God.

Sorry, that's not possible. As a Muslim, you believe in worshiping God and only God, yes? Christians worship Jesus, as he is the Son of God and also is God. To you Jesus is just a prophet and cannot be worshiped together with God. So how can that be a legitimate pathway to God? The view that Christians and Jews are "people of the book" is convenient but not a universal view within the Muslim community. Certainly the foundations of the major religions are so different and the fundamental beliefs so at odds that it's more reasonable to assert that Christians and Jews are "kafir".

As a Muslim I believe that there is only one God and that Muhammad is his prophet. I also know that there were tons of other prophets sent to other people and those people have devised various religious traditions around those prophets. All I know is that Jesus is a revered figure in Islam and I owe him the same respect I owe all other messengers sent to humanity. If my husband and others of the catholic faith revere Jesus and give him some extra attention, they can go ahead and do so. God certainly has no problem with their interpretation, I don't see why you're so upset:

{Those who believe [in the Quran], and those who follow the Jewish [scriptures], and the Christians and the Sabians,—any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.} (Al-Baqarah 2:62)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People like the OP are hypocrites.

You are Muslim, and have remained a Muslim. At least the remaining part is a conscious choice because you believe this is the right way, the one true way to be with God for eternity.

The same for your husband.

You cannot believe in only one true way, but then think that a different way is also a "beautiful way to know God".

If you fancy yourself a person of faith, it should be backed up with conviction. Otherwise you are just a hollow practitioner of rituals.

OP here. Islam considers Christians and Jews as "people of the book" and hence people who have received prior revelations similar to the one Muhammad (PBUH) received. While I only consider Jesus to be a prophet of God, I view Catholics as a people with a legitimate pathway to God.

Sorry, that's not possible. As a Muslim, you believe in worshiping God and only God, yes? Christians worship Jesus, as he is the Son of God and also is God. To you Jesus is just a prophet and cannot be worshiped together with God. So how can that be a legitimate pathway to God? The view that Christians and Jews are "people of the book" is convenient but not a universal view within the Muslim community. Certainly the foundations of the major religions are so different and the fundamental beliefs so at odds that it's more reasonable to assert that Christians and Jews are "kafir".

If God, as set down in the Quran, says Christians are fine and people of the book together with Jews and Muslims, even though they believe in a triune God, who are you to second guess God?

The trinity is subtle but not polytheistic. This was well known and understood in Muhammed's time and place and it's a sorry step backward that so many of today's Muslims have a less advanced theological understanding of christianity than people in seventh century Arabia had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While the Quran may not have an explicit prohibition against women marrying Christians, in a very deep cultural way it is believed that children are the faith of their fathers.

While a Muslim convert has to say the shehada to become a Muslim, the child of a Muslim man is never expected to say the shehada to prove he or she is Muslim. This is not unlike the situation in Israel--if someone is the child of a Jewish mother he is automatically considered Jewish even if he or she is an theist. But if someone is the child of Jewish father and a non-Jewish mother, he or she must go through an orthodox conversion process (much more onerous than simply reciting the shehada) in order to be considered Jewish in Israel for civil matters.

In any case, this is why families in the Middle East sometimes conduct honor killings if their Muslim daughter marries a Christian. Indeed, there are honor killings of Christian women who marry Muslims, even if he has converted to Christianity. For civil purposes in a country that has Islam as, for want of a better term, the state religion in the latter case the conversion would not be recognized

OP here. That may be true but you forget that in Islam a lot of emphasis is placed on the mother. The Prophet has said, 'Paradise lies at the feet of your mother' [Musnad Ahmad, Sunan An-Nasâ’i, Sunan Ibn Mâjah]

Considering the importance given to motherhood and mothers in islam, it makes no sense that a muslim man is allowed to have his children be raised by a christian or jewish mother and children of a Muslim mother are deemed not muslim? Makes no sense.

Possibly not, but that is how it works. Same thing in Judaism but the sexes are reversed. Christianity requires a rite of initiation to be deemed Christian. (Mainstream Christianity, can't speak to some of the less mainstream Protestant sects.) You are not Christian simply because you were born to a Christian mother or father, unlike in Islam or Judaism.