I am a Muslim woman married to a Christian man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You claim to be an atheist and then set forth the most extreme and fundamentalist forms of Islamic thinking as standard Muslim belief. Hmmm.....I smell an agenda here.

You are telling me that Jesus was not the Son of God and that nonbelievers go to hell is an extremist view in Islam? Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You claim to be an atheist and then set forth the most extreme and fundamentalist forms of Islamic thinking as standard Muslim belief. Hmmm.....I smell an agenda here.

You think it sets forth the "most extreme and fundamentalist" form of Islam to say that Sunna and hadith are an integral part of theological sources in Islam? That's a pretty mainstream thing to say, nothing to see here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is it a basic tenet of Islam that all other religions have an ugly way of understanding God?

I really, really don't think so.

Thank God the vast majority of Muslims in the world do not follow your thought process. It is so unfortunate that so many who do are now wreaking havoc in Syria and Iraq.

Yes it is. It doesn't matter if you really really don't think so. Read up on the five pillars of Islam, and also find out what happens to those who do not convert to Islam.

This is not a problem unique to Islam. Christians have similar issues. Although, Christians have evolved their opinion to indicate that the bible contains some literal truths while other parts are parables. Modern mainstream Muslims believe the Koran is perfect.

No it isn't.

There isn't and never has been any "requirement" for Christians or Jews to convert.

Again a strawman argument, no one on this side argued that it was required for Christians or Jews to convert. They simply go to hell and burn for eternity if they don't. Now use your mind, logic, and reason, to argue that something punishable by an eternity in hell according to Islam can be a beautiful way to understand God to a Muslim. Go ahead, lay that argument out. Show how beautiful it is to follow a path that would end up in hell.

1. Islam is not unique in this.

2. In Islam, a place in heaven isn't guaranteed for ANYONE. Muslims do not get to heaven by virtue of being Muslim. They have to earn it.

3. There are contradictory verses in the Quran on what awaits Jews and Christians in afterlife. Some verses lay out the argument that the path to heaven is open to them. Some do not. You can find scholarly opinion on both sides of that split.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again a strawman argument, no one on this side argued that it was required for Christians or Jews to convert. They simply go to hell and burn for eternity if they don't. Now use your mind, logic, and reason, to argue that something punishable by an eternity in hell according to Islam can be a beautiful way to understand God to a Muslim. Go ahead, lay that argument out. Show how beautiful it is to follow a path that would end up in hell.

1. Islam is not unique in this.

2. In Islam, a place in heaven isn't guaranteed for ANYONE. Muslims do not get to heaven by virtue of being Muslim. They have to earn it.

3. There are contradictory verses in the Quran on what awaits Jews and Christians in afterlife. Some verses lay out the argument that the path to heaven is open to them. Some do not. You can find scholarly opinion on both sides of that split.

1. Sure, I agree, but this doesn't contribute anything to the argument in support of OP's views on Catholicism.

2. Of course, but nonbelievers are guaranteed a place in hell, that is the point that the OP has to deal with within her mental context as a Muslim.

3. I don't know, just a "path to heaven" sounds pretty ambiguous without context. Does that mean it's open to them as long as they convert? I am no scholar on the Quran but some light reading here does not bode well for the OP's view on Catholics:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Christians_Jews_and_Muslims_in_Heaven#Christians_and_Jews_thrown_into_hell

And this is especially troublesome:

Additionally, the non-Muslims who do make it into Paradise will only be used as sex-slaves by believing men, Muslims who themselves will be spared hell-fire by Allah on the Day of Resurrection by making innocent Christians and Jews take their place and be thrown into Hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Again a strawman argument, no one on this side argued that it was required for Christians or Jews to convert. They simply go to hell and burn for eternity if they don't. Now use your mind, logic, and reason, to argue that something punishable by an eternity in hell according to Islam can be a beautiful way to understand God to a Muslim. Go ahead, lay that argument out. Show how beautiful it is to follow a path that would end up in hell.

1. Islam is not unique in this.

2. In Islam, a place in heaven isn't guaranteed for ANYONE. Muslims do not get to heaven by virtue of being Muslim. They have to earn it.

3. There are contradictory verses in the Quran on what awaits Jews and Christians in afterlife. Some verses lay out the argument that the path to heaven is open to them. Some do not. You can find scholarly opinion on both sides of that split.

1. Sure, I agree, but this doesn't contribute anything to the argument in support of OP's views on Catholicism.

2. Of course, but nonbelievers are guaranteed a place in hell, that is the point that the OP has to deal with within her mental context as a Muslim.

3. I don't know, just a "path to heaven" sounds pretty ambiguous without context. Does that mean it's open to them as long as they convert? I am no scholar on the Quran but some light reading here does not bode well for the OP's view on Catholics:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Christians_Jews_and_Muslims_in_Heaven#Christians_and_Jews_thrown_into_hell

And this is especially troublesome:

Additionally, the non-Muslims who do make it into Paradise will only be used as sex-slaves by believing men, Muslims who themselves will be spared hell-fire by Allah on the Day of Resurrection by making innocent Christians and Jews take their place and be thrown into Hell.

I already told you that support exists on both sides of that argument. You can find any number of partisan links on the matter, and I sure hope that you won't make anyone here responsible for explaining to you why link X says A and link Y says B, especially in the context of clearly Islamophobic resource like wikiislam. You seem very invested in proving that as a Muslim, the OP is theologically bound to find nothing but ugliness in Catholicism. I don't think you'll get there. Just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is it a basic tenet of Islam that all other religions have an ugly way of understanding God?

I really, really don't think so.

Thank God the vast majority of Muslims in the world do not follow your thought process. It is so unfortunate that so many who do are now wreaking havoc in Syria and Iraq.

Yes it is. It doesn't matter if you really really don't think so. Read up on the five pillars of Islam, and also find out what happens to those who do not convert to Islam.

This is not a problem unique to Islam. Christians have similar issues. Although, Christians have evolved their opinion to indicate that the bible contains some literal truths while other parts are parables. Modern mainstream Muslims believe the Koran is perfect.

No it isn't.

There isn't and never has been any "requirement" for Christians or Jews to convert.

The pp said, find out what happens to those that don't convert. Not what happens when Jews and Christians don't convert.

Christians and Jews-- Jizya tax
Everyone else-- Death and Rape

This has been seen around the world at various times since the dawn of Islam.

History doesn't agree with you. Not in India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran.

You're joking right? You clearly don't have a grasp on history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is it a basic tenet of Islam that all other religions have an ugly way of understanding God?

I really, really don't think so.

Thank God the vast majority of Muslims in the world do not follow your thought process. It is so unfortunate that so many who do are now wreaking havoc in Syria and Iraq.

Yes it is. It doesn't matter if you really really don't think so. Read up on the five pillars of Islam, and also find out what happens to those who do not convert to Islam.

This is not a problem unique to Islam. Christians have similar issues. Although, Christians have evolved their opinion to indicate that the bible contains some literal truths while other parts are parables. Modern mainstream Muslims believe the Koran is perfect.

No it isn't.

There isn't and never has been any "requirement" for Christians or Jews to convert.

The pp said, find out what happens to those that don't convert. Not what happens when Jews and Christians don't convert.

Christians and Jews-- Jizya tax
Everyone else-- Death and Rape

This has been seen around the world at various times since the dawn of Islam.

History doesn't agree with you. Not in India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran.

You're joking right? You clearly don't have a grasp on history.

Then you go and provide proof that non-Jews and non-Christians in India, Indonesia, Malaysia and Iran were killed off or raped. You wonder how there's so many of them left. Must be an extraordinarily sturdy bunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is it a basic tenet of Islam that all other religions have an ugly way of understanding God?

I really, really don't think so.

Thank God the vast majority of Muslims in the world do not follow your thought process. It is so unfortunate that so many who do are now wreaking havoc in Syria and Iraq.

Yes it is. It doesn't matter if you really really don't think so. Read up on the five pillars of Islam, and also find out what happens to those who do not convert to Islam.

This is not a problem unique to Islam. Christians have similar issues. Although, Christians have evolved their opinion to indicate that the bible contains some literal truths while other parts are parables. Modern mainstream Muslims believe the Koran is perfect.

No it isn't.

There isn't and never has been any "requirement" for Christians or Jews to convert.

The pp said, find out what happens to those that don't convert. Not what happens when Jews and Christians don't convert.

Christians and Jews-- Jizya tax
Everyone else-- Death and Rape

This has been seen around the world at various times since the dawn of Islam.

History doesn't agree with you. Not in India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Iran.

You're joking right? You clearly don't have a grasp on history.

Then you go and provide proof that non-Jews and non-Christians in India, Indonesia, Malaysia and Iran were killed off or raped. You wonder how there's so many of them left. Must be an extraordinarily sturdy bunch.

I replied here
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/0/454305.page#6575371

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Answer #1. People interpret Islam and Catholicism differently. They aren't all copies of each other. If OP thinks her husband's way to understand god is beautiful, she is in a better position to understand the non-ambiguous tenets of her faith than you are.

Huh? That's a non-sequitur. She things a certain way that is contrary to a basic tenet of Islam, and therefore she's in a better position to understand Islam than I am? How the heck did you come up with that logic.

The OP can address the substantive issue that makes her position hypocritical, but thus far she either is unwilling or unable to do so.

Anonymous wrote:
Answer 2. I wouldn't know. Find a Muslim and ask them. Why are you asking ME?

You inserted yourself in this conversation. I assume this means you were open to being engaged in a discussion, which includes exchanges and possibly questions and answers. If you don't want to be engaged in a discussion, don't post anything. Simple enough?

OP here.How dare you think my views are contrary to Islam! Who are you to speak for God with so much confidence and certainty? Are you Messenger of God? Or a Prophet? Or have some access to divine guidance that the rest of us do not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't help but think that OP was driven away by the bullies who think they know her religion better than she does.

Op here. Absolutely. This is why I didn't want to marry a "Muslim" man. Muslims today go and do things like ISIS and think being close minded and ignorant is the way of God. It's embarrassing and unrepresentative of what is really a beautiful, all encompassing and universal faith.

NP here, and a Muslim woman married to a Muslim man. I feel really sorry that men in your family and in the Muslim community you were brought up in go and do things like ISIS. But ya know majority of Muslim men are not like that.
If getting married to a non_Muslim man is what you always wanted to do and it makes you happy, then so be it. No one cares. You don't need to wrongfully paint the whole Muslim population with the ISIS brush, just to justify your action.

Erm....its really rather very immature of you to try to attack my family and background because you took personal offence. If you want to marry a Muslim man, good for you! Do not turn a blind eye to the ignorance spewed in the name of Muslims and God by lunatics who claim to be "Muslims".

I think Muslims today need to do a critical self-analysis and come to terms with the reasons why there is so much terrorism that is committed in their name. It's a shame that our faith has been hijacked by a bunch of lunatics.

[Anonymous]

OP here, regarding the treatment of People of the Book:

"Yet, they are not all alike: among the People of the Book, there is an upright community, reciting God’s Revelations in the watches of the night and prostrating (themselves in worship). They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin and promote what is right and good, and forbid and try to prevent evil, and hasten to do good deeds, as if competing with one another. Those are of the righteous ones. Whatever good they do, they will never be denied the reward of it; and God has full knowledge of the God-revering, pious."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, regarding the treatment of People of the Book:

"Yet, they are not all alike: among the People of the Book, there is an upright community, reciting God’s Revelations in the watches of the night and prostrating (themselves in worship). They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin and promote what is right and good, and forbid and try to prevent evil, and hasten to do good deeds, as if competing with one another. Those are of the righteous ones. Whatever good they do, they will never be denied the reward of it; and God has full knowledge of the God-revering, pious."

Thanks for posting more evidence why your position is hypocritical. The above verse instructs Muslims that those Jews and Christians who convert to Islam are okay. The verses surrounding these four verses describe what happens to those people of the book who do not convert to Islam. This ties together with earlier observations as well. There isn't some warm and fuzzy between Muslims and all other "people of the book" as is implied. Those who do not convert to Islam, like your DH, are non believers and will burn in hell for eternity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, regarding the treatment of People of the Book:

"Yet, they are not all alike: among the People of the Book, there is an upright community, reciting God’s Revelations in the watches of the night and prostrating (themselves in worship). They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin and promote what is right and good, and forbid and try to prevent evil, and hasten to do good deeds, as if competing with one another. Those are of the righteous ones. Whatever good they do, they will never be denied the reward of it; and God has full knowledge of the God-revering, pious."

Thanks for posting more evidence why your position is hypocritical. The above verse instructs Muslims that those Jews and Christians who convert to Islam are okay. The verses surrounding these four verses describe what happens to those people of the book who do not convert to Islam. This ties together with earlier observations as well. There isn't some warm and fuzzy between Muslims and all other "people of the book" as is implied. Those who do not convert to Islam, like your DH, are non believers and will burn in hell for eternity.

wow. you're hopeless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, regarding the treatment of People of the Book:

"Yet, they are not all alike: among the People of the Book, there is an upright community, reciting God’s Revelations in the watches of the night and prostrating (themselves in worship). They believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin and promote what is right and good, and forbid and try to prevent evil, and hasten to do good deeds, as if competing with one another. Those are of the righteous ones. Whatever good they do, they will never be denied the reward of it; and God has full knowledge of the God-revering, pious."

Thanks for posting more evidence why your position is hypocritical. The above verse instructs Muslims that those Jews and Christians who convert to Islam are okay. The verses surrounding these four verses describe what happens to those people of the book who do not convert to Islam. This ties together with earlier observations as well. There isn't some warm and fuzzy between Muslims and all other "people of the book" as is implied. Those who do not convert to Islam, like your DH, are non believers and will burn in hell for eternity.

wow. you're hopeless.

The verses are right there, read it for yourself. Either you believe in them or you don't. OP claims to believe, but her actions indicate otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't help but think that OP was driven away by the bullies who think they know her religion better than she does.

Op here. Absolutely. This is why I didn't want to marry a "Muslim" man. Muslims today go and do things like ISIS and think being close minded and ignorant is the way of God. It's embarrassing and unrepresentative of what is really a beautiful, all encompassing and universal faith.

NP here, and a Muslim woman married to a Muslim man. I feel really sorry that men in your family and in the Muslim community you were brought up in go and do things like ISIS. But ya know majority of Muslim men are not like that.
If getting married to a non_Muslim man is what you always wanted to do and it makes you happy, then so be it. No one cares. You don't need to wrongfully paint the whole Muslim population with the ISIS brush, just to justify your action.

Erm....its really rather very immature of you to try to attack my family and background because you took personal offence. If you want to marry a Muslim man, good for you! Do not turn a blind eye to the ignorance spewed in the name of Muslims and God by lunatics who claim to be "Muslims".

I think Muslims today need to do a critical self-analysis and come to terms with the reasons why there is so much terrorism that is committed in their name. It's a shame that our faith has been hijacked by a bunch of lunatics.

This is hysterical. OP says "Muslims go and do things like ISIS" but when asked if her own Muslim family members belong to ISIS, she takes offense. By referring to all Muslims, OP, you implicated your own family. So the NP wasn't offending you. She's just calling you on your own recklessness in implying that all Muslims are terrorists.

I am a Muslim. It is obvious why terrorism is committed in the name of Islam sometimes. It is due to a literal and strict interpretation of Islam. The vast majority of Muslims don't subscribe to such strict interpretations in the US. Those who do in this country and in Muslim countries are heavily influenced by their own imams or mullahs. The control has to come from their own government. Peaceful Muslims have little control over other citizens.