feeling like teacher is blaming me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP,

If you're going to take every comment as a critique of yourself or your parenting skills, you are in for a world of hurt, specials needs or not!

Learn to understand teacher-speak. Lack of organizational skills, inattention, distractible, are all symptoms of ADHD. Except teachers can't say ADHD, they can only tell you what they notice in class.

Schools have so much different activities going on in class, frequently at the same time, that it's no wonder ADHD and executive function issues are increasingly diagnosed. The paraeducator or teacher could teach her to tidy her desk, ask for homework due, remind her repeatedly of what tasks she needs to accomplish, recall her attention gently if she wanders, etc...

Why is this? Why can't they say they suspect ADHD? Its so frustrating... I know they can't diagnose but it would be helpful to know if we are on the same page with our suspicions.

It is wrong for a teacher to suggest ADHD because they are not doctors or testers. I've even heard people say it is "illegal" for them to do so, but I'm a lawyer and a stickler for those type of things so am using "wrong" instead. Let's just say it is unprofessional for them to say it because they (teachers) do not have the training to diagnose a mental issue. So the most teachers can say is "I've noticed that Larla is absent minded doing X" or "Have you considered NT testing?" (I think teachers can say that but it's better if it comes from the school's psychologist if there is one). I know it's frustrating but them's the rules.

[Anonymous]

Yep, they cannot make a diagnostic, based on what they see in the classroom because they are not trained, and only see a single environment. But they can certainly recommend testing. Which they don't until 3rd or 4th grade, because that's when ADHD really starts to make things hard. And before that, they'd be just signing up for more work if they did.

OP, many parents of ADHD kids are disorganized -- because ADHD runs in families. So I'm certain you could stand to be more organized -- like I would! -- but it's not necessarily something you can easily do. Just like your child has to, start developing new skills now, because the juggling is only going to get more complicated....

GL...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't detect anything in the teacher's comment that implied any criticism of the parenting.

But even if there had been, so what? If the daughter's organizational skills need to be worked on, the only useful response is a game plan for those skills to be worked on.

Don't take a straightforward statement about a child's skill need and turn it into a discussion about the parent.

I think things look different on paper. We don't see body language or hear tone. As parents of SN children, we do have to develop a thicker skin, but sometimes that is pierced by strong body language and tone.

For example, I learn in my college intro to theatre class that the sentence "I did not sleep with your husband." can have several different meanings depending which word the speaker emphasizes.

I did not sleep with your husband.
I did not sleep with your husband.
I did not sleep with your husband.

Funny stuff, and so true. Though I'm not sure the applicability here: Here's the quote from the OP:

"I reached out to DD's teacher yesterday to see how things are going and she responded a little better but that my daughter needs to work on her organizational skills."

It's difficult to imagine any tone or inflection applied to that statement that could turn it into an accusation of bad parenting. This seems more a case of "Person A said X but Person B heard Y because Person B was already thinking about Y." By OP's own admission she has been worrying (necessarily or not) about whether her own lack of organization is contributing to her daughter's, and that seems to have been projected onto the teacher's comment.

It's tough sometimes because so much emotion is invested in parenting, but it's important to keep one's eye on the ball. In this case the ball is the necessary development of the daughter's organizational skills. Assurances that one is a good parent can be sought in another time and place. It's nice that some other PPs on DCUM have stepped up with some.

I absolutely disagree that this is projection on the part of the parent.

The sentence is structured as "better.... BUT .... needs to work on" This sentence structure clearly implies that the student needs help in this area and the subject of the second clause "my daughter" indicates that the TEACHER is not taking responsibility for helping the daughter develop organizational skills, but rather thinks this is the responsibility of the child. This is a very passive, responsibility-avoidant phrasing. If the child is young, then it is not plausible that she will develop "organizational skills" on her own. (It's really not plausible even for adults to develop this on their own, if they have ADHD or executive dysfunction. Even adults frequently need help from an executive or organizational coach or therapist.) There are really only 2 people who could plausibly be capable of helping the child develop organizational skills -- the teacher or the parent. And, by her phrasing, the teacher has indicated that she doesn't view herself as responsible for this, so, by implication, the parent is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again - I guess I should add that I don't have a warm rapport with DD's teacher. She is pretty blunt and doesn't seem to want to engage more than necessary. I've read other emails of hers and wondered about the wording. I think we just have really different styles. I don't know if this is going to change this year. DD's reading teacher is much more open and chatty and has mentioned several concerns by name (even though she probably isn't supposed to). Its actually kind of helpful to know what she is thinking though. I can't get a feel if DD's main teacher is thinking the same things or not. Actually looking forward to the next EMT meeting to see where things stand.

This is all new to me and its been confusing and overwhelming. Doesn't help that other parents and MY parent of course pipe in and say things like they don't think there are any problems. Or if I could just change my/our behavior (be more organized, consistent) - that everything would be fine. My mother even stated that if DD got glasses that would solve everything. Well, we have the glasses (yep she did need them) and it hasn't been a cure all....

You can address the lack of organization in the IEP. Request an evaluation from the school. They have to do it within 60 days if you are in MoCo, FCPS. 90 in DC. It'll be faster than waiting for the appointment with Children's and KKI. You can always add the private evaluation findings later when you get the results. Your kid needs help with organization - like a checklist - she can get one with a 504 or IEP. I would start the process now rather than later.

I had a giggle from the bolded. My parents said the same thing bc my mother most likely has the same diagnosis as my DS but a whole lot worse and admitting that there is something "off" with DS would be acknowledging that my mother also has a problem.

+1 on requesting an IEP. MCPS is notorious for shunting problems off into the EMT process where they have no legal responsibility to respond in any specific way or timeline. If you write a letter and specifically request an evaluation for an IEP based on your daughter's organizational difficulties, the school will be forced to comply with the 30+60=90 timeline for IEP screening, evaluation and determination.

The only reason NOT to request the IEP is if you have decided that you do not want the school to evaluate and would rather go into the meeting with your own private evaluations (which usually means MCPS, in the interest of preserving their own time and money, will do only it's own minimal evaluation and your evals will, practically speaking be more determinative than if they were competing with MCPS evals that showed something different).

Either way, start documenting. Did the teacher make the comment orally? Write an email back saying something like, "Dear Teacher, thank you for mentioning to me that DD needs to work on her organizational skills. We certainly notice that DD often comes home without required papers and wonder whether she is having difficulty properly packing her papers at the end of the school day. We notice that DD often fails to turn in homework or papers despite having taken them to school int eh morning. We notice that DD often comes home with papers that are blank or unfinished. I would like to meet with you to better understand how DD's lack of organizational skills is impacting her in the classroom and how we can better support her and work on these items at home. Thanks for your support." After the P/T meeting, document again with an email, "Thank you so much for meeting you. It was very helpful to hear X about DD's problems. I agree that it would be helpful if you did Y to help DD at school and if I did Z at home...."

In this way you have documented the "educational impact" at home, documented that the teacher thinks there is an "educational impact" at school, and documented that you are trying "interventions" at home (which may or may not help) and requested the teacher to provide interventions at school.

"Educational impact" is one of the three prongs of the IEP test (the other 2 being "disorder" and "need for specialized instruction". Educational impact is often hard to document at a young age for ADHD kids because the school tries to stick to grades and test scores as markers of "educational impact" and there is very little of that prior to grade 3, plus kids typically aren't that far behind prior to grade 3 and schools try to dismiss below average performance as normal variations in the developmental range.

My DS was shunted off into this EMT process for an entire school year. It wasn't until the end of the school year that I said that I thought my DS needed a specialized reading program like Wilson that the EMT chair perked up and said, OK, you have requested specialized instruction so we have to have an IEP meeting. It was like I stumbled across the magic words, "Open Sesame" because I had done something that indicated I wanted an IEP even though I didn't use precisely that phrasing (and I thought that is what I had been asking for all along when I said DS "needed help" in the classroom".) It took another 6 months to finally get it. My DS had MANY different kinds of specialized instruction and accommodations for ADHD in the goals.

Sadly, I thought getting the IEP would fix everything, but then the battle became getting the teacher to actually implement the IEP, and getting the Sped teacher to deliver specialized instruction in a way that was more than repeated prompts and tossing graphic organizers at DS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't detect anything in the teacher's comment that implied any criticism of the parenting.

But even if there had been, so what? If the daughter's organizational skills need to be worked on, the only useful response is a game plan for those skills to be worked on.

Don't take a straightforward statement about a child's skill need and turn it into a discussion about the parent.

I think things look different on paper. We don't see body language or hear tone. As parents of SN children, we do have to develop a thicker skin, but sometimes that is pierced by strong body language and tone.

For example, I learn in my college intro to theatre class that the sentence "I did not sleep with your husband." can have several different meanings depending which word the speaker emphasizes.

I did not sleep with your husband.
I did not sleep with your husband.
I did not sleep with your husband.

Funny stuff, and so true. Though I'm not sure the applicability here: Here's the quote from the OP:

"I reached out to DD's teacher yesterday to see how things are going and she responded a little better but that my daughter needs to work on her organizational skills."

It's difficult to imagine any tone or inflection applied to that statement that could turn it into an accusation of bad parenting. This seems more a case of "Person A said X but Person B heard Y because Person B was already thinking about Y." By OP's own admission she has been worrying (necessarily or not) about whether her own lack of organization is contributing to her daughter's, and that seems to have been projected onto the teacher's comment.

It's tough sometimes because so much emotion is invested in parenting, but it's important to keep one's eye on the ball. In this case the ball is the necessary development of the daughter's organizational skills. Assurances that one is a good parent can be sought in another time and place. It's nice that some other PPs on DCUM have stepped up with some.

I absolutely disagree that this is projection on the part of the parent.

The sentence is structured as "better.... BUT .... needs to work on" This sentence structure clearly implies that the student needs help in this area and the subject of the second clause "my daughter" indicates that the TEACHER is not taking responsibility for helping the daughter develop organizational skills, but rather thinks this is the responsibility of the child. This is a very passive, responsibility-avoidant phrasing. If the child is young, then it is not plausible that she will develop "organizational skills" on her own. (It's really not plausible even for adults to develop this on their own, if they have ADHD or executive dysfunction. Even adults frequently need help from an executive or organizational coach or therapist.) There are really only 2 people who could plausibly be capable of helping the child develop organizational skills -- the teacher or the parent. And, by her phrasing, the teacher has indicated that she doesn't view herself as responsible for this, so, by implication, the parent is.

Wow. Fascinating, and respectfully submitted here, but I could not disagree more.

Saying "a young child needs to work on X" does not in any way imply that it's up to the child to design and implement their own work program. It's simply a statement that the child needs to work on something, and to my ear implies only that the responsible adults in the child's life need to recognize this and develop a game plan for that work to occur.

A lot is being read into this phrasing (and we don't even know the exact phrasing, as this is a paraphrase, not a quote) that I would suggest simply isn't there. We use the phrase "DC needs to work on X" to each other all the time, and it has never suggested to us or to anyone else that the adults will just shrug this off and leave it to the child to implement the program. IMHO this type of parsing is really unfair to the teacher, there is nothing passive or responsibility-avoidant about saying a child needs to work on something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't detect anything in the teacher's comment that implied any criticism of the parenting.

But even if there had been, so what? If the daughter's organizational skills need to be worked on, the only useful response is a game plan for those skills to be worked on.

Don't take a straightforward statement about a child's skill need and turn it into a discussion about the parent.

I think things look different on paper. We don't see body language or hear tone. As parents of SN children, we do have to develop a thicker skin, but sometimes that is pierced by strong body language and tone.

For example, I learn in my college intro to theatre class that the sentence "I did not sleep with your husband." can have several different meanings depending which word the speaker emphasizes.

I did not sleep with your husband.
I did not sleep with your husband.
I did not sleep with your husband.

Funny stuff, and so true. Though I'm not sure the applicability here: Here's the quote from the OP:

"I reached out to DD's teacher yesterday to see how things are going and she responded a little better but that my daughter needs to work on her organizational skills."

It's difficult to imagine any tone or inflection applied to that statement that could turn it into an accusation of bad parenting. This seems more a case of "Person A said X but Person B heard Y because Person B was already thinking about Y." By OP's own admission she has been worrying (necessarily or not) about whether her own lack of organization is contributing to her daughter's, and that seems to have been projected onto the teacher's comment.

It's tough sometimes because so much emotion is invested in parenting, but it's important to keep one's eye on the ball. In this case the ball is the necessary development of the daughter's organizational skills. Assurances that one is a good parent can be sought in another time and place. It's nice that some other PPs on DCUM have stepped up with some.

I absolutely disagree that this is projection on the part of the parent.

The sentence is structured as "better.... BUT .... needs to work on" This sentence structure clearly implies that the student needs help in this area and the subject of the second clause "my daughter" indicates that the TEACHER is not taking responsibility for helping the daughter develop organizational skills, but rather thinks this is the responsibility of the child. This is a very passive, responsibility-avoidant phrasing. If the child is young, then it is not plausible that she will develop "organizational skills" on her own. (It's really not plausible even for adults to develop this on their own, if they have ADHD or executive dysfunction. Even adults frequently need help from an executive or organizational coach or therapist.) There are really only 2 people who could plausibly be capable of helping the child develop organizational skills -- the teacher or the parent. And, by her phrasing, the teacher has indicated that she doesn't view herself as responsible for this, so, by implication, the parent is.

This is OP - thanks for this comment. While I do agree that the teacher is not blaming me (after reading all these comments and thinking about it more) - I do think the teacher is not exactly helping. Without posting the whole email - she tells me all the things DD forgets to do - but there was no information given on how the school is working with her on this. They may, in fact, be working with her on it - but so far that hasn't been communicated to me. So I did sort of take the statement as "we (the parent and child) need to fix this". End of story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again - I guess I should add that I don't have a warm rapport with DD's teacher. She is pretty blunt and doesn't seem to want to engage more than necessary. I've read other emails of hers and wondered about the wording. I think we just have really different styles. I don't know if this is going to change this year. DD's reading teacher is much more open and chatty and has mentioned several concerns by name (even though she probably isn't supposed to). Its actually kind of helpful to know what she is thinking though. I can't get a feel if DD's main teacher is thinking the same things or not. Actually looking forward to the next EMT meeting to see where things stand.

This is all new to me and its been confusing and overwhelming. Doesn't help that other parents and MY parent of course pipe in and say things like they don't think there are any problems. Or if I could just change my/our behavior (be more organized, consistent) - that everything would be fine. My mother even stated that if DD got glasses that would solve everything. Well, we have the glasses (yep she did need them) and it hasn't been a cure all....

You can address the lack of organization in the IEP. Request an evaluation from the school. They have to do it within 60 days if you are in MoCo, FCPS. 90 in DC. It'll be faster than waiting for the appointment with Children's and KKI. You can always add the private evaluation findings later when you get the results. Your kid needs help with organization - like a checklist - she can get one with a 504 or IEP. I would start the process now rather than later.

I had a giggle from the bolded. My parents said the same thing bc my mother most likely has the same diagnosis as my DS but a whole lot worse and admitting that there is something "off" with DS would be acknowledging that my mother also has a problem.

+1 on requesting an IEP. MCPS is notorious for shunting problems off into the EMT process where they have no legal responsibility to respond in any specific way or timeline. If you write a letter and specifically request an evaluation for an IEP based on your daughter's organizational difficulties, the school will be forced to comply with the 30+60=90 timeline for IEP screening, evaluation and determination.

The only reason NOT to request the IEP is if you have decided that you do not want the school to evaluate and would rather go into the meeting with your own private evaluations (which usually means MCPS, in the interest of preserving their own time and money, will do only it's own minimal evaluation and your evals will, practically speaking be more determinative than if they were competing with MCPS evals that showed something different).

Either way, start documenting. Did the teacher make the comment orally? Write an email back saying something like, "Dear Teacher, thank you for mentioning to me that DD needs to work on her organizational skills. We certainly notice that DD often comes home without required papers and wonder whether she is having difficulty properly packing her papers at the end of the school day. We notice that DD often fails to turn in homework or papers despite having taken them to school int eh morning. We notice that DD often comes home with papers that are blank or unfinished. I would like to meet with you to better understand how DD's lack of organizational skills is impacting her in the classroom and how we can better support her and work on these items at home. Thanks for your support." After the P/T meeting, document again with an email, "Thank you so much for meeting you. It was very helpful to hear X about DD's problems. I agree that it would be helpful if you did Y to help DD at school and if I did Z at home...."

In this way you have documented the "educational impact" at home, documented that the teacher thinks there is an "educational impact" at school, and documented that you are trying "interventions" at home (which may or may not help) and requested the teacher to provide interventions at school.

"Educational impact" is one of the three prongs of the IEP test (the other 2 being "disorder" and "need for specialized instruction". Educational impact is often hard to document at a young age for ADHD kids because the school tries to stick to grades and test scores as markers of "educational impact" and there is very little of that prior to grade 3, plus kids typically aren't that far behind prior to grade 3 and schools try to dismiss below average performance as normal variations in the developmental range.

My DS was shunted off into this EMT process for an entire school year. It wasn't until the end of the school year that I said that I thought my DS needed a specialized reading program like Wilson that the EMT chair perked up and said, OK, you have requested specialized instruction so we have to have an IEP meeting. It was like I stumbled across the magic words, "Open Sesame" because I had done something that indicated I wanted an IEP even though I didn't use precisely that phrasing (and I thought that is what I had been asking for all along when I said DS "needed help" in the classroom".) It took another 6 months to finally get it. My DS had MANY different kinds of specialized instruction and accommodations for ADHD in the goals.

Sadly, I thought getting the IEP would fix everything, but then the battle became getting the teacher to actually implement the IEP, and getting the Sped teacher to deliver specialized instruction in a way that was more than repeated prompts and tossing graphic organizers at DS.

Wow this is so helpful - thank you!! We do have a neuro-psych scheduled with CNMC because in all honestly MCPS wasn't moving fast enough for me. Hey its my kid and I want to know whats going on so I can help her as soon as I can!! In light of this - would you still push for MCPS to evaluate? Based on what I've seen so far - I'm not sure I even trust them to do it well. (I could be very wrong in that - but so far I have not been impressed....)

-OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again - I guess I should add that I don't have a warm rapport with DD's teacher. She is pretty blunt and doesn't seem to want to engage more than necessary. I've read other emails of hers and wondered about the wording. I think we just have really different styles. I don't know if this is going to change this year. DD's reading teacher is much more open and chatty and has mentioned several concerns by name (even though she probably isn't supposed to). Its actually kind of helpful to know what she is thinking though. I can't get a feel if DD's main teacher is thinking the same things or not. Actually looking forward to the next EMT meeting to see where things stand.

This is all new to me and its been confusing and overwhelming. Doesn't help that other parents and MY parent of course pipe in and say things like they don't think there are any problems. Or if I could just change my/our behavior (be more organized, consistent) - that everything would be fine. My mother even stated that if DD got glasses that would solve everything. Well, we have the glasses (yep she did need them) and it hasn't been a cure all....

You can address the lack of organization in the IEP. Request an evaluation from the school. They have to do it within 60 days if you are in MoCo, FCPS. 90 in DC. It'll be faster than waiting for the appointment with Children's and KKI. You can always add the private evaluation findings later when you get the results. Your kid needs help with organization - like a checklist - she can get one with a 504 or IEP. I would start the process now rather than later.

I had a giggle from the bolded. My parents said the same thing bc my mother most likely has the same diagnosis as my DS but a whole lot worse and admitting that there is something "off" with DS would be acknowledging that my mother also has a problem.

+1 on requesting an IEP. MCPS is notorious for shunting problems off into the EMT process where they have no legal responsibility to respond in any specific way or timeline. If you write a letter and specifically request an evaluation for an IEP based on your daughter's organizational difficulties, the school will be forced to comply with the 30+60=90 timeline for IEP screening, evaluation and determination.

The only reason NOT to request the IEP is if you have decided that you do not want the school to evaluate and would rather go into the meeting with your own private evaluations (which usually means MCPS, in the interest of preserving their own time and money, will do only it's own minimal evaluation and your evals will, practically speaking be more determinative than if they were competing with MCPS evals that showed something different).

Either way, start documenting. Did the teacher make the comment orally? Write an email back saying something like, "Dear Teacher, thank you for mentioning to me that DD needs to work on her organizational skills. We certainly notice that DD often comes home without required papers and wonder whether she is having difficulty properly packing her papers at the end of the school day. We notice that DD often fails to turn in homework or papers despite having taken them to school int eh morning. We notice that DD often comes home with papers that are blank or unfinished. I would like to meet with you to better understand how DD's lack of organizational skills is impacting her in the classroom and how we can better support her and work on these items at home. Thanks for your support." After the P/T meeting, document again with an email, "Thank you so much for meeting you. It was very helpful to hear X about DD's problems. I agree that it would be helpful if you did Y to help DD at school and if I did Z at home...."

In this way you have documented the "educational impact" at home, documented that the teacher thinks there is an "educational impact" at school, and documented that you are trying "interventions" at home (which may or may not help) and requested the teacher to provide interventions at school.

"Educational impact" is one of the three prongs of the IEP test (the other 2 being "disorder" and "need for specialized instruction". Educational impact is often hard to document at a young age for ADHD kids because the school tries to stick to grades and test scores as markers of "educational impact" and there is very little of that prior to grade 3, plus kids typically aren't that far behind prior to grade 3 and schools try to dismiss below average performance as normal variations in the developmental range.

My DS was shunted off into this EMT process for an entire school year. It wasn't until the end of the school year that I said that I thought my DS needed a specialized reading program like Wilson that the EMT chair perked up and said, OK, you have requested specialized instruction so we have to have an IEP meeting. It was like I stumbled across the magic words, "Open Sesame" because I had done something that indicated I wanted an IEP even though I didn't use precisely that phrasing (and I thought that is what I had been asking for all along when I said DS "needed help" in the classroom".) It took another 6 months to finally get it. My DS had MANY different kinds of specialized instruction and accommodations for ADHD in the goals.

Sadly, I thought getting the IEP would fix everything, but then the battle became getting the teacher to actually implement the IEP, and getting the Sped teacher to deliver specialized instruction in a way that was more than repeated prompts and tossing graphic organizers at DS.

This is OP again - somehow I missed this part when I read your comment the first time. Do you (or anyone else reading this) think private would be better than public in these cases? We would also consider moving to Howard Co. or Frederick Co. if anyone out there thinks highly of those districts. Our MCPS schools is extremely overcrowded and I do know that DD's class size is NOT helping matters at all.... I'm not making any rush decisions but long term I want to do what's best for DD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again - I guess I should add that I don't have a warm rapport with DD's teacher. She is pretty blunt and doesn't seem to want to engage more than necessary. I've read other emails of hers and wondered about the wording. I think we just have really different styles. I don't know if this is going to change this year. DD's reading teacher is much more open and chatty and has mentioned several concerns by name (even though she probably isn't supposed to). Its actually kind of helpful to know what she is thinking though. I can't get a feel if DD's main teacher is thinking the same things or not. Actually looking forward to the next EMT meeting to see where things stand.

This is all new to me and its been confusing and overwhelming. Doesn't help that other parents and MY parent of course pipe in and say things like they don't think there are any problems. Or if I could just change my/our behavior (be more organized, consistent) - that everything would be fine. My mother even stated that if DD got glasses that would solve everything. Well, we have the glasses (yep she did need them) and it hasn't been a cure all....

You can address the lack of organization in the IEP. Request an evaluation from the school. They have to do it within 60 days if you are in MoCo, FCPS. 90 in DC. It'll be faster than waiting for the appointment with Children's and KKI. You can always add the private evaluation findings later when you get the results. Your kid needs help with organization - like a checklist - she can get one with a 504 or IEP. I would start the process now rather than later.

I had a giggle from the bolded. My parents said the same thing bc my mother most likely has the same diagnosis as my DS but a whole lot worse and admitting that there is something "off" with DS would be acknowledging that my mother also has a problem.

+1 on requesting an IEP. MCPS is notorious for shunting problems off into the EMT process where they have no legal responsibility to respond in any specific way or timeline. If you write a letter and specifically request an evaluation for an IEP based on your daughter's organizational difficulties, the school will be forced to comply with the 30+60=90 timeline for IEP screening, evaluation and determination.

The only reason NOT to request the IEP is if you have decided that you do not want the school to evaluate and would rather go into the meeting with your own private evaluations (which usually means MCPS, in the interest of preserving their own time and money, will do only it's own minimal evaluation and your evals will, practically speaking be more determinative than if they were competing with MCPS evals that showed something different).

Either way, start documenting. Did the teacher make the comment orally? Write an email back saying something like, "Dear Teacher, thank you for mentioning to me that DD needs to work on her organizational skills. We certainly notice that DD often comes home without required papers and wonder whether she is having difficulty properly packing her papers at the end of the school day. We notice that DD often fails to turn in homework or papers despite having taken them to school int eh morning. We notice that DD often comes home with papers that are blank or unfinished. I would like to meet with you to better understand how DD's lack of organizational skills is impacting her in the classroom and how we can better support her and work on these items at home. Thanks for your support." After the P/T meeting, document again with an email, "Thank you so much for meeting you. It was very helpful to hear X about DD's problems. I agree that it would be helpful if you did Y to help DD at school and if I did Z at home...."

In this way you have documented the "educational impact" at home, documented that the teacher thinks there is an "educational impact" at school, and documented that you are trying "interventions" at home (which may or may not help) and requested the teacher to provide interventions at school.

"Educational impact" is one of the three prongs of the IEP test (the other 2 being "disorder" and "need for specialized instruction". Educational impact is often hard to document at a young age for ADHD kids because the school tries to stick to grades and test scores as markers of "educational impact" and there is very little of that prior to grade 3, plus kids typically aren't that far behind prior to grade 3 and schools try to dismiss below average performance as normal variations in the developmental range.

My DS was shunted off into this EMT process for an entire school year. It wasn't until the end of the school year that I said that I thought my DS needed a specialized reading program like Wilson that the EMT chair perked up and said, OK, you have requested specialized instruction so we have to have an IEP meeting. It was like I stumbled across the magic words, "Open Sesame" because I had done something that indicated I wanted an IEP even though I didn't use precisely that phrasing (and I thought that is what I had been asking for all along when I said DS "needed help" in the classroom".) It took another 6 months to finally get it. My DS had MANY different kinds of specialized instruction and accommodations for ADHD in the goals.

Sadly, I thought getting the IEP would fix everything, but then the battle became getting the teacher to actually implement the IEP, and getting the Sped teacher to deliver specialized instruction in a way that was more than repeated prompts and tossing graphic organizers at DS.

Wow this is so helpful - thank you!! We do have a neuro-psych scheduled with CNMC because in all honestly MCPS wasn't moving fast enough for me. Hey its my kid and I want to know whats going on so I can help her as soon as I can!! In light of this - would you still push for MCPS to evaluate? Based on what I've seen so far - I'm not sure I even trust them to do it well. (I could be very wrong in that - but so far I have not been impressed....)

-OP

When is your appointment? Can you afford the private testing or does getting private mean you will be so pressed financially that you will not be able to pay for extra help like tutoring or executive function coaching?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again - I guess I should add that I don't have a warm rapport with DD's teacher. She is pretty blunt and doesn't seem to want to engage more than necessary. I've read other emails of hers and wondered about the wording. I think we just have really different styles. I don't know if this is going to change this year. DD's reading teacher is much more open and chatty and has mentioned several concerns by name (even though she probably isn't supposed to). Its actually kind of helpful to know what she is thinking though. I can't get a feel if DD's main teacher is thinking the same things or not. Actually looking forward to the next EMT meeting to see where things stand.

This is all new to me and its been confusing and overwhelming. Doesn't help that other parents and MY parent of course pipe in and say things like they don't think there are any problems. Or if I could just change my/our behavior (be more organized, consistent) - that everything would be fine. My mother even stated that if DD got glasses that would solve everything. Well, we have the glasses (yep she did need them) and it hasn't been a cure all....

You can address the lack of organization in the IEP. Request an evaluation from the school. They have to do it within 60 days if you are in MoCo, FCPS. 90 in DC. It'll be faster than waiting for the appointment with Children's and KKI. You can always add the private evaluation findings later when you get the results. Your kid needs help with organization - like a checklist - she can get one with a 504 or IEP. I would start the process now rather than later.

I had a giggle from the bolded. My parents said the same thing bc my mother most likely has the same diagnosis as my DS but a whole lot worse and admitting that there is something "off" with DS would be acknowledging that my mother also has a problem.

+1 on requesting an IEP. MCPS is notorious for shunting problems off into the EMT process where they have no legal responsibility to respond in any specific way or timeline. If you write a letter and specifically request an evaluation for an IEP based on your daughter's organizational difficulties, the school will be forced to comply with the 30+60=90 timeline for IEP screening, evaluation and determination.

The only reason NOT to request the IEP is if you have decided that you do not want the school to evaluate and would rather go into the meeting with your own private evaluations (which usually means MCPS, in the interest of preserving their own time and money, will do only it's own minimal evaluation and your evals will, practically speaking be more determinative than if they were competing with MCPS evals that showed something different).

Either way, start documenting. Did the teacher make the comment orally? Write an email back saying something like, "Dear Teacher, thank you for mentioning to me that DD needs to work on her organizational skills. We certainly notice that DD often comes home without required papers and wonder whether she is having difficulty properly packing her papers at the end of the school day. We notice that DD often fails to turn in homework or papers despite having taken them to school int eh morning. We notice that DD often comes home with papers that are blank or unfinished. I would like to meet with you to better understand how DD's lack of organizational skills is impacting her in the classroom and how we can better support her and work on these items at home. Thanks for your support." After the P/T meeting, document again with an email, "Thank you so much for meeting you. It was very helpful to hear X about DD's problems. I agree that it would be helpful if you did Y to help DD at school and if I did Z at home...."

In this way you have documented the "educational impact" at home, documented that the teacher thinks there is an "educational impact" at school, and documented that you are trying "interventions" at home (which may or may not help) and requested the teacher to provide interventions at school.

"Educational impact" is one of the three prongs of the IEP test (the other 2 being "disorder" and "need for specialized instruction". Educational impact is often hard to document at a young age for ADHD kids because the school tries to stick to grades and test scores as markers of "educational impact" and there is very little of that prior to grade 3, plus kids typically aren't that far behind prior to grade 3 and schools try to dismiss below average performance as normal variations in the developmental range.

My DS was shunted off into this EMT process for an entire school year. It wasn't until the end of the school year that I said that I thought my DS needed a specialized reading program like Wilson that the EMT chair perked up and said, OK, you have requested specialized instruction so we have to have an IEP meeting. It was like I stumbled across the magic words, "Open Sesame" because I had done something that indicated I wanted an IEP even though I didn't use precisely that phrasing (and I thought that is what I had been asking for all along when I said DS "needed help" in the classroom".) It took another 6 months to finally get it. My DS had MANY different kinds of specialized instruction and accommodations for ADHD in the goals.

Sadly, I thought getting the IEP would fix everything, but then the battle became getting the teacher to actually implement the IEP, and getting the Sped teacher to deliver specialized instruction in a way that was more than repeated prompts and tossing graphic organizers at DS.

This is OP again - somehow I missed this part when I read your comment the first time. Do you (or anyone else reading this) think private would be better than public in these cases? We would also consider moving to Howard Co. or Frederick Co. if anyone out there thinks highly of those districts. Our MCPS schools is extremely overcrowded and I do know that DD's class size is NOT helping matters at all.... I'm not making any rush decisions but long term I want to do what's best for DD.

Too soon to think about this without getting neuropsych results first. Not sure that other public school systems are substantially less crowded than MCPS. There are some options for reducing the impact of class sizes, depending on neuropsych results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again - I guess I should add that I don't have a warm rapport with DD's teacher. She is pretty blunt and doesn't seem to want to engage more than necessary. I've read other emails of hers and wondered about the wording. I think we just have really different styles. I don't know if this is going to change this year. DD's reading teacher is much more open and chatty and has mentioned several concerns by name (even though she probably isn't supposed to). Its actually kind of helpful to know what she is thinking though. I can't get a feel if DD's main teacher is thinking the same things or not. Actually looking forward to the next EMT meeting to see where things stand.

This is all new to me and its been confusing and overwhelming. Doesn't help that other parents and MY parent of course pipe in and say things like they don't think there are any problems. Or if I could just change my/our behavior (be more organized, consistent) - that everything would be fine. My mother even stated that if DD got glasses that would solve everything. Well, we have the glasses (yep she did need them) and it hasn't been a cure all....

You can address the lack of organization in the IEP. Request an evaluation from the school. They have to do it within 60 days if you are in MoCo, FCPS. 90 in DC. It'll be faster than waiting for the appointment with Children's and KKI. You can always add the private evaluation findings later when you get the results. Your kid needs help with organization - like a checklist - she can get one with a 504 or IEP. I would start the process now rather than later.

I had a giggle from the bolded. My parents said the same thing bc my mother most likely has the same diagnosis as my DS but a whole lot worse and admitting that there is something "off" with DS would be acknowledging that my mother also has a problem.

+1 on requesting an IEP. MCPS is notorious for shunting problems off into the EMT process where they have no legal responsibility to respond in any specific way or timeline. If you write a letter and specifically request an evaluation for an IEP based on your daughter's organizational difficulties, the school will be forced to comply with the 30+60=90 timeline for IEP screening, evaluation and determination.

The only reason NOT to request the IEP is if you have decided that you do not want the school to evaluate and would rather go into the meeting with your own private evaluations (which usually means MCPS, in the interest of preserving their own time and money, will do only it's own minimal evaluation and your evals will, practically speaking be more determinative than if they were competing with MCPS evals that showed something different).

Either way, start documenting. Did the teacher make the comment orally? Write an email back saying something like, "Dear Teacher, thank you for mentioning to me that DD needs to work on her organizational skills. We certainly notice that DD often comes home without required papers and wonder whether she is having difficulty properly packing her papers at the end of the school day. We notice that DD often fails to turn in homework or papers despite having taken them to school int eh morning. We notice that DD often comes home with papers that are blank or unfinished. I would like to meet with you to better understand how DD's lack of organizational skills is impacting her in the classroom and how we can better support her and work on these items at home. Thanks for your support." After the P/T meeting, document again with an email, "Thank you so much for meeting you. It was very helpful to hear X about DD's problems. I agree that it would be helpful if you did Y to help DD at school and if I did Z at home...."

In this way you have documented the "educational impact" at home, documented that the teacher thinks there is an "educational impact" at school, and documented that you are trying "interventions" at home (which may or may not help) and requested the teacher to provide interventions at school.

"Educational impact" is one of the three prongs of the IEP test (the other 2 being "disorder" and "need for specialized instruction". Educational impact is often hard to document at a young age for ADHD kids because the school tries to stick to grades and test scores as markers of "educational impact" and there is very little of that prior to grade 3, plus kids typically aren't that far behind prior to grade 3 and schools try to dismiss below average performance as normal variations in the developmental range.

My DS was shunted off into this EMT process for an entire school year. It wasn't until the end of the school year that I said that I thought my DS needed a specialized reading program like Wilson that the EMT chair perked up and said, OK, you have requested specialized instruction so we have to have an IEP meeting. It was like I stumbled across the magic words, "Open Sesame" because I had done something that indicated I wanted an IEP even though I didn't use precisely that phrasing (and I thought that is what I had been asking for all along when I said DS "needed help" in the classroom".) It took another 6 months to finally get it. My DS had MANY different kinds of specialized instruction and accommodations for ADHD in the goals.

Sadly, I thought getting the IEP would fix everything, but then the battle became getting the teacher to actually implement the IEP, and getting the Sped teacher to deliver specialized instruction in a way that was more than repeated prompts and tossing graphic organizers at DS.

Wow this is so helpful - thank you!! We do have a neuro-psych scheduled with CNMC because in all honestly MCPS wasn't moving fast enough for me. Hey its my kid and I want to know whats going on so I can help her as soon as I can!! In light of this - would you still push for MCPS to evaluate? Based on what I've seen so far - I'm not sure I even trust them to do it well. (I could be very wrong in that - but so far I have not been impressed....)

-OP

When is your appointment? Can you afford the private testing or does getting private mean you will be so pressed financially that you will not be able to pay for extra help like tutoring or executive function coaching?

I believe insurance is covering most of it because we are going to CNMC (they take our insurance). This is the only way we can do this.

[Anonymous]

Your concerns have merit. We've BTDT.
What did you feed Sam for breakfast...how much sleep are you letting him get...how much time are you putting into his xyz...you should buy these books or go to these workshops and change/add therapies...never ending. Turns out Sam actually had LDs once he had a full evaluation. Then the story changed to a different blame game. Every experience is different. Sometimes they are however blaming you. And your child.

[Anonymous]

Based on my own personal experience, I think it's highly unlikely that your lack of organization has created this issue for your child, but depending on the underlying reason, it may present a stumbling block to helping her. I have ADHD, and for other medical reasons I don't take medication for it. I manage it through lifestyle, which means lots of fixed routines, checklists, etc. My husband tends toward the (very) disorganized, though, and I often found that my routines/checklists would be interrupted because I couldn't find what I needed -- the papers I needed were buried under a bunch of junk mail he threw on the counter, my keys weren't in the holder where I keep them because he borrowed them and left them on the entryway table rather than in the basket in the kitchen, etc. Once I was able to get him to understand how much his disorganization was hindering me from managing my ADHD (the symptoms of which were driving him up the wall at times), he got much better about it and everything in our household became more harmonious.

That's not to say that you have to be 100% organized to help her, but as you put systems into place to help her at home, it's important to make sure that none of your own habits are going to interfere with those systems or you're setting her up for failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This is OP - thanks for this comment. While I do agree that the teacher is not blaming me (after reading all these comments and thinking about it more) - I do think the teacher is not exactly helping. Without posting the whole email - she tells me all the things DD forgets to do - but there was no information given on how the school is working with her on this. They may, in fact, be working with her on it - but so far that hasn't been communicated to me. So I did sort of take the statement as "we (the parent and child) need to fix this". End of story.

It's great that the teacher emailed you about all this! It's documentation of adverse educational impact. Now, suss out whether she is doing anything to help or not. Respond with thanks for the information and ask for more information and advice. "As DD's parents we are happy to partner with you to try to develop her organizational skills. What are you doing with her at school to improve these skills? How can we reinforce at home the organizational learning she is getting at school? Do you recommend any outside help for developing organizational skills in first grade? etc."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your concerns have merit. We've BTDT.
What did you feed Sam for breakfast...how much sleep are you letting him get...how much time are you putting into his xyz...you should buy these books or go to these workshops and change/add therapies...never ending. Turns out Sam actually had LDs once he had a full evaluation. Then the story changed to a different blame game. Every experience is different. Sometimes they are however blaming you. And your child.

+1. Our experience too in MCPS, specifically.