Senior Associates/Partners at Law Firm Question

[Anonymous]

Okay I'm not at a law firm or even a lawyer, but both my husband and I have pretty demanding - and sometimes unpredicable - jobs and 3 little ones so I thought I would let OP know what works for us. We do daycare for all 3. We drop off at 7:45am together and one (or both) of us will pick up at 5pm. I work through lunch so even though I do 99% of pickups I still fit in a 9 hour day. We then have a PT babysitter/nanny who lives in an apartment downstairs from our house. She comes up around 4/5, prepares dinner, light housekeeping, and then hangs around with whichever (or both) parents are at home to help with dinner, bath and bedtime. Kids are in bed by 8pm and we can do an extra work from 8-10/11. The PT babysitter is also available to stay at home with a sick kid (although I try my best to stay home instead when I can but it's good to have a 3rd backup). We also have a weekend nanny which allows us to spend 1:1 time with each child PLUS allows one or both of us to do work if we need to. Finally, we have a cleaner and also get groceries and almost everything else delivered. This setup allows us to work 50-60 or so hours a week plus maximize our time with the kids plus give us flexibility we need if we travel, have a deadline etc. I've done the math and based on the fact that we have 3 kids, the cost of the various PT help and daycare adds up to be about the same as a nanny who works 60 hours a week but with our setup we have much better "coverage" and flexibility.

[Anonymous]

I am a partner at medium/large law firm. I officially work a "part-time" schedule - although it would seem like a full-time schedule to most non-lawyers. I generally work 8:30 to 6ish Monday-Friday, but there is flexibility to take days off when I need them (e.g. doctor's appointments). Sometimes I go in earlier; sometimes I stay a little later - very rarely past 7. Typically, I get my child up in the mornings, make breakfast and hang out for a bit. I am almost always home for bedtime - except for the occasional business trip. I probably work some time on the week-end about once a month or so. I have one nanny. When I interviewed nannies, I stressed the importance of someone who could be flexible. I was lucky to find a great fit. At this point in time, I do not have a spouse - so 100% of making sure that the childcare issues are covered falls on me. I am also a big believer in contracting out. I have a cleaning service that comes twice a month. I religiously use Peapod and all other forms of internet purchasing. I do not cringe at paying someone to do stuff around the house. (So for instance, I would rather hire a service to come in a child-proof the house than spend several hours researching products and trying to install them. Ditto all other household repairs.)

We have many working mother attorneys at my firm - some partners, some counsel, some associates - and people have generally been able to create schedules that work for them. It's certainly not perfect, but it works. And for me, these are reasonable choices.

(I was at a conference a while back where the GC for UPS spoke. She was generally very inspirational, but one thing in particular she said stuck with me - the gist of it was that there really isn't any "balance" - just choices.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our nanny works 8-6, and we have a babysitter who comes Monday through Thursday from 6 to 8:30. We see the kids for about 1-1.5 hours in the morning while we are getting ready and we switch off taking the older one to school. The market is slow now, so I do make bedtime story time about once a week (besides Friday). When the market picks up I will not be able to do this. When I am busy I often have to go to work on the weekends, and this does not count the emergencies that may crop up on vacation, on a holiday, etc. I know very few people who do this with 2 people working full time in private firms. You end up hoping that every single second you spend with your kids counts. My kids do know who their mother is, and I really do matter. When we get to the tween and teen years when somebody thoughtful who can talk about this week's mean girl stunt or the louse of a boyfriend who has broken a heart and is able to help with trig homework needs to be there, I am not sure what we will do. Most people I know have decided that one or the other parent will take a job hit (or they were already in a government job or something). We couldn't decide who it would be (I wanted to but I make more; he didn't really want to), so we never bowed out.

This poster sounds very well-meaning and sincere, but her post exactly describes why I left big-firm life. I couldn't stand, speaking just for me, never seeing our kids and having a babysitter on top of a nanny, and only being there for bedtime once a week. It just wasn't worth it to me. This poster sounds confident that tiny quality time will be enough, but I just wasn't so sure 9again, speaking only for our family).

I agree. I just couldn't be okay with this. I think I would choose not to have kids if this were the scenario I was faced with.

Also, my older child is in his last year of preschool (he's 4.5) and he has a lot of issues that he wants to talk about (people being mean at school, etc.). These issues always come up randomly at dinner, or during bath or books. These problems don't just start in middle school. I know I had a tough time with all the emotional stuff when I was in elementary.

I'm THAT poster. You assume I am okay with it. You assume too much.

Let's just say my marriage is extremely dysfunctional, and I have very little choice about what I do unless I want to blow everything up. I did a cold calculation about whether, if I divorced my husband and got a different job, I would see my kids more. Once you factor in the time they would be obligated to spend with him, I wouldn't. So I make the best of it - for now.

Don't be so quick to judge people. I didn't post to say I had a great life. I was gently trying to tell the OP that it is hell and she needs to make sure she is going in with her eyes wide open.

With both of you having similar schedules and if you divorced and took a major pay cut, don't you think you would see your kids more by the fact that your DH simply would not have any time to spend with the kids?

I feel really bad for you, I could not imagine that work schedule. There is no amount of money in the world or job satisfaction that would make me work that much. Granted, I love my job, but I am pretty "over it" after about 30hours.

[Anonymous]

I have to say that these posts have me a bit depressed. I just had DD, and am a senior associate at a mid-sized law firm. I don't want to go back, but need to, because of this economy and my husband's job security (or lack thereof). I really want to make a reduced schedule work, but the thought of only seeing my DD for bedtime is just too much for me. I couldn't do it. I am hopeful that my firm will be flexible with me, but it is still a firm. To me, nothing is more important than the time with DD- she will only be a baby for such a small period of time. I don't like my job that much to begin with, so I'm not anxious to go back. And there's no way I can compete with PPs' schedules. I can't see myself lasting too long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to say that these posts have me a bit depressed. I just had DD, and am a senior associate at a mid-sized law firm. I don't want to go back, but need to, because of this economy and my husband's job security (or lack thereof). I really want to make a reduced schedule work, but the thought of only seeing my DD for bedtime is just too much for me. I couldn't do it. I am hopeful that my firm will be flexible with me, but it is still a firm. To me, nothing is more important than the time with DD- she will only be a baby for such a small period of time. I don't like my job that much to begin with, so I'm not anxious to go back. And there's no way I can compete with PPs' schedules. I can't see myself lasting too long.

I agree. I'm due in a few months and these issues have been weighing heavily on my mind. I love being an attorney, but I don't love working at a big law firm, particularly not my big law firm. Luckily, my husband has great job security, but I make more and we would like to buy a house sometime in the foreseeable future. It's definitely true what the earlier poster said, there isn't "balance," just choices.

[Anonymous]

Not the question OP asked, but something to consider, the law firm atmosphere is gloomy these days:

http://www.abajournal.com/news/bloody_thursday_layoffs_also_hit_cozen_and_epstein_becker_big_ones_still_to/

and if you want a really grim view, check out abovethelaw for more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have to say that these posts have me a bit depressed. I just had DD, and am a senior associate at a mid-sized law firm. I don't want to go back, but need to, because of this economy and my husband's job security (or lack thereof). I really want to make a reduced schedule work, but the thought of only seeing my DD for bedtime is just too much for me. I couldn't do it. I am hopeful that my firm will be flexible with me, but it is still a firm. To me, nothing is more important than the time with DD- she will only be a baby for such a small period of time. I don't like my job that much to begin with, so I'm not anxious to go back. And there's no way I can compete with PPs' schedules. I can't see myself lasting too long.

You might want to think about government jobs. There are some fantastic roles for attorneys that do not involve killer work schedules. The hiring process can take FOREVER, so I would make it a regular habit to review USA Jobs and send in resumes. You might also want to search your firm's alumni database to find alums in government who can help make introductions. Again, the process can be very slow so it's never too early to get started . . . .

[Anonymous]

There are no right answers here, only what's right for you. I was a senior litigation associate at a big firm when I got a pregnant, and I knew I did not want to even try to make it work in that environment, so I left to work for the government. I now make less than half of what I used to, but I get home at 5 every day and get a 3 1/2 block with my DD every day, plus all my weekends. My DH also left big firm life for the government, so there are lots of things we don't have - no cleaning service, 2 used cars, etc. - but we both still make 6 figures a year, which is plenty. Plus, I now love my job, and I didn't before. If you don't think your husband can/will be flexible, then you need to make sure your job IS flexible, either by negotiating a realistic PT schedule at a firm, or staying away from the firms. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Anonymous]

Seriously, federal government is a great option for an attorney in DC who wants a good work-life balance. I disagree that there are only "choices" - there certainly is balance and I know plenty of government attorney moms who have found it. Good luck, OP.

[Anonymous]

If you're considering a law firm and you're a mom, here's a tip: find out how many of the male attorneys have working wives. It is SO important! I've worked at a couple of firms, and at one of them virtually none of the male lawyers' wives worked. The men were absolutely clueless about the things working moms have to do, and frankly some of them seemed to put in late hours just to avoid going home. Avoid those places at all costs.

[Anonymous]

I know plenty of big firm moms who are doing great. Here is my top ten list of how to thrive in that situation. First, you absolutely need to have a great spouse (or someone else you can rely on, like your mom) who is in it with you. Second, you need to work at a firm (and there are some) that supports working moms. Third, you need to be flexible in your hours. You can't say that you must leave every day at 5pm no exceptions, because that isn't fair to your job. On the flip side, you have to be ok with leaving guilt-free at 3pm on a sunny day when you don't have a lot going on so you can take your kids to the playground. Fourth, you have to be able to focus. When I'm home, I'm HOME with my kids and husband, and work is compartmentalized for later. Fifth, you need to be super organized. Sixth, you need to have great childcare. Seventh, you need to actually like being a lawyer. The ones who hated it anyway don't last--they are just using parenthood as the perfect out. Eighth, you have to accept that you may not rocket to the top of your profession. Be a tortoise, not a hare. Ninth, you can't let other people's opinions about your choices factor. I'm good with my life and my family is happy, and the money I make, which is a lot, has gone to things people wouldn't know anything about. People might think I'm dripping in cash but I'm not. I have one lawyer friend who paid off her ailing father's mortgage, three who are supporting hopeless siblings, and I've paid college tuitions for my sibling and my husbands and have given significant money to my parents for necessities. My "designer" clothes come from Loehmans and DSW. Many of the lawyers I know are the "successful" one in the family and are supporting a bunch of their extended family members. You can be sure if my parents ever have to go in a nursing home or have a home health aide, I'll be footing the bill, not my 3 siblings. Finally, you have to have fun. If at the end of the day you are miserable, don't do it. Some people might look at my life and think it must be miserable, but I'm having a blast, and I know every night when I tuck my kids into bed, they are happy and secure and loved and growing into the people they are meant to be.

[Anonymous]

This is one of the most brutally honest threads I've read and I really appreciate everyone for being so candid, except for the couple of judgmental types. We all have choices to make and do what we can to make things work. I'm glad I'm not alone.

[Anonymous]

A PP here -- the one who left for a PT gig at the government. I just wanted to add that one thing that has been a challenge for me, and I think is challenging for many of us, is to resolve with yourself that for these next few years while the kids are young, you are not going to be a superstar at work. Of course you still COULD be, but while the kids are small, the cost is just too high for many of us. So, you resolve that you will do enough to keep your boss satisfied and your obligations met, but not that much more. For many of us this is hard. My mom-lawyer friends discuss this alot -- we graduated from a top ivy, worked at top firms, and now have mostly (not all, there are still a couple gunning for partner this year, but mostly not) become, as one PP so aptly put it, tortoises rather than hares. For me this means in my three years at the govt job, I have stayed past 4:30 exactly one time, in a real true work emergency. Of course this means that I am no superstar and will not be applying for a promotion any time soon. But, I still do good work, always get good reviews, and am (finally, after much inner struggle at first) fine with where I am. When my kids get to school age, perhaps I go back FT and push more. Perhaps not. Who knows. But don't feel bad for not being a star anymore. Time with your kids is worth more than stardom. At least for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A PP here -- the one who left for a PT gig at the government. I just wanted to add that one thing that has been a challenge for me, and I think is challenging for many of us, is to resolve with yourself that for these next few years while the kids are young, you are not going to be a superstar at work. Of course you still COULD be, but while the kids are small, the cost is just too high for many of us. So, you resolve that you will do enough to keep your boss satisfied and your obligations met, but not that much more. For many of us this is hard. My mom-lawyer friends discuss this alot -- we graduated from a top ivy, worked at top firms, and now have mostly (not all, there are still a couple gunning for partner this year, but mostly not) become, as one PP so aptly put it, tortoises rather than hares. For me this means in my three years at the govt job, I have stayed past 4:30 exactly one time, in a real true work emergency. Of course this means that I am no superstar and will not be applying for a promotion any time soon. But, I still do good work, always get good reviews, and am (finally, after much inner struggle at first) fine with where I am. When my kids get to school age, perhaps I go back FT and push more. Perhaps not. Who knows. But don't feel bad for not being a star anymore. Time with your kids is worth more than stardom. At least for me.

I'm the PP non-lawyer and love this post b/c it speaks to where I am now. I am very used to excelling professionally and am kind of beating myself up b/c I know I could be doing more professionally but I do feel a bit "mommy tracked" at the moment. I'm thinking I may need to settle for this for now and hopefully I can get back on a faster track at a later point down the road.

[Anonymous]

17:54 - I guess which firm you work for does matter b/c you seem to work longer hours than I do (FT counsel at a big law firm) and yet you are on an 80% schedule. I'd say you are getting screwed. But - at least at my firm - going reduced hours actually tends to make your schedule LESS flexible, not more. Which is why I think the program is kind of a joke.

Having a husband with a flexible job IS pretty much key for me. DH gets home by 6 pm every day, so I can work as late as needed. That said, walking around my office at 7:30/8 and you really won't find that many people still here...