Are middle schools and high schools impacted by 2.0?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP here... Thanks for the responses, however I am winderinf more about the changes in the curriculum in middle school and high school rather than reporting of grades (although agree that the P/ES system is a horrendous system). . Does/will common core/2.0 affect non-math courses? According to the MCPS technology plan the goal is to remove all textbooks for all grades by 2016. So will material, resources move on-line -- and will this change be guided by a 2.0 or common core-based curriculum? If so, I am deeply concerned as 2.0 has really lowered standards at the elementary grade levels. I really hope MCPS leaves middle and high shools alone.

The new material will be 2.0 crap. I have no faith that the materials will even be accessible outside of school. You better hope that your child is really good at note taking. Not only will you and your child not have access to any of the tests, quizzes, or exams to see how he or she actually did and what areas are strengths/weaknesses but you won't even be able to access the materials they are studying in class if they follow the same principles that were applied to elementary schools. Homework will vanish.

It will be fantastic for MCPS. Parents will no longer be able to complain about the sloppy and incorrect math problems because they will never get to see them. 2+2 can equal 5 now just because we say it does! Yeah! High SES families will leave the system but who gives a shit! Low SES families are better because they don't complain about the poor quality of the instruction. Let the people seeking a real education and the economic means to move go someplace else.

There is some truth to this, although I don't agree with all of it. But DD was in Algebra I last year, first year of 2.0 rollout. There was n corresponding textbook and the teacher obsolutely refused to share real info about what DD was learning (or more accurately, not learning) in class. She had some areas where she got C's but I could NEVER get info about what the problem was and I couldn't get copies of tests. This made it very hard to get a tutor to help her with specific issues. Ridiculous.

We ended up having her take it again despite a final grade of B (due to extra test points). We figured it was important for her to have a very solid foundation and worth the repeated material. We'll see how it goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well Starr does want to do a study on whether the GT centers and magnets are necessary. Its no secret that he hates these programs and would love to shut them down.

He does? Where did you learn this? Can you provide a link to the reference, please?

There is a line item on the approved current budget for $250K to cover a consultant to look at ALL magnet programs, including GT, immersion, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well Starr does want to do a study on whether the GT centers and magnets are necessary. Its no secret that he hates these programs and would love to shut them down.

He does? Where did you learn this? Can you provide a link to the reference, please?

There is a line item on the approved current budget for $250K to cover a consultant to look at ALL magnet programs, including GT, immersion, etc.

To look at what about them? What is the purpose of the consultant's study?

[Anonymous]

GT and Magnet schools are disproportionately made up of asian and white children. Their presence creates more of an achievement gap by attracting highly educated white or asian families to the area to take advantage of the centers. If the centers and magnets shut down, these families would move elsewhere which would be better for the other MCPS schools by reducing the achievement gap. MCPS could then focus all its resources on the students performing at the bottom and come back to address students in the middle. Right now, MCPS is good for students at the very bottom and students at the very top. The rest get ignored.

Shutting down the centers would also support social emotional learning. Its very harmful to minority or lower performing children to see children who look different from them always walking off to the gifted classes. It doesn't matter that everyone had equal opportunity to take the test and admittance was by score. To a kid its noticeable that the white and asian kids go to one set of classes and they go to another one in their own school. No its not fair to the white and asian kids but they have other advantages in life if they are already smart enough to get into a center or magnet.

[Anonymous]

My HGC was definitely minority white..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GT and Magnet schools are disproportionately made up of asian and white children. Their presence creates more of an achievement gap by attracting highly educated white or asian families to the area to take advantage of the centers. If the centers and magnets shut down, these families would move elsewhere which would be better for the other MCPS schools by reducing the achievement gap. MCPS could then focus all its resources on the students performing at the bottom and come back to address students in the middle. Right now, MCPS is good for students at the very bottom and students at the very top. The rest get ignored.

Shutting down the centers would also support social emotional learning. Its very harmful to minority or lower performing children to see children who look different from them always walking off to the gifted classes. It doesn't matter that everyone had equal opportunity to take the test and admittance was by score. To a kid its noticeable that the white and asian kids go to one set of classes and they go to another one in their own school. No its not fair to the white and asian kids but they have other advantages in life if they are already smart enough to get into a center or magnet.

You have lots of conspiracy theories , speculation, and imputation of bad faith there, PP. Do you have any actual information?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My HGC was definitely minority white..

I think it depends on the HGC. The one DC goes to is majority white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GT and Magnet schools are disproportionately made up of asian and white children. Their presence creates more of an achievement gap by attracting highly educated white or asian families to the area to take advantage of the centers. If the centers and magnets shut down, these families would move elsewhere which would be better for the other MCPS schools by reducing the achievement gap. MCPS could then focus all its resources on the students performing at the bottom and come back to address students in the middle. Right now, MCPS is good for students at the very bottom and students at the very top. The rest get ignored.

Shutting down the centers would also support social emotional learning. Its very harmful to minority or lower performing children to see children who look different from them always walking off to the gifted classes. It doesn't matter that everyone had equal opportunity to take the test and admittance was by score. To a kid its noticeable that the white and asian kids go to one set of classes and they go to another one in their own school. No its not fair to the white and asian kids but they have other advantages in life if they are already smart enough to get into a center or magnet.

1. If they get rid of HGC, and the "smart" kids go back to their home schools, the achievement gap doesn't change. It's just segmented by schools (or regions).
2. I can't tell you how many times I've read on this forum the complete opposite - MCPS is good for the lower/middle achiever, not the highest achievers.
3. Am I hearing this right? You want to do away with HGC because the black/hispanic kids are getting their feelings hurt? I'm all for providing additional services to underachieving kids, but this has got to be the dumbest reason to get rid of HGCs.

[Anonymous]

3. Am I hearing this right? You want to do away with HGC because the black/hispanic kids are getting their feelings hurt? I'm all for providing additional services to underachieving kids, but this has got to be the dumbest reason to get rid of HGCs.

I've heard or read about this too. One of the larger problems cited for any type of tracking is that it ends up creating very visible and obvious socioeconomic and racial segregation. This is not unique to Starr. MCPS officials were talking about this years before Starr. Weast was politically more in favor of supporting and growing the GT and magnet schools so it was buried but there are many long time administrators in MCPS that would happily do away with the centers because they believe it is money wasted on already privileged kids . I suspect that Starr would do this in a second if the BOE wouldn't object. All of his rhetoric is in line with the no tracking, no acceleration, and no advanced opportunities educational model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Common Core standards only exist for mathematics and English - so science and social studies courses shouldn't change because of Common Core. However, MD is going to be adopting the Next Generation Science Standards, which have a heavier emphasis on technology and engineering, so that will most likely change middle and high school science courses.

Thanks for this information. I hope you'll post if you hear any more details about this - timeline etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GT and Magnet schools are disproportionately made up of asian and white children. Their presence creates more of an achievement gap by attracting highly educated white or asian families to the area to take advantage of the centers. If the centers and magnets shut down, these families would move elsewhere which would be better for the other MCPS schools by reducing the achievement gap. MCPS could then focus all its resources on the students performing at the bottom and come back to address students in the middle. Right now, MCPS is good for students at the very bottom and students at the very top. The rest get ignored.

Shutting down the centers would also support social emotional learning. Its very harmful to minority or lower performing children to see children who look different from them always walking off to the gifted classes. It doesn't matter that everyone had equal opportunity to take the test and admittance was by score. To a kid its noticeable that the white and asian kids go to one set of classes and they go to another one in their own school. No its not fair to the white and asian kids but they have other advantages in life if they are already smart enough to get into a center or magnet.

This is the kind of zero-sum thinking many parents try to discourage in their children. It is ugly.

[Anonymous]

My child's HGC class is very diverse and there are students in there who receive FARMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

3. Am I hearing this right? You want to do away with HGC because the black/hispanic kids are getting their feelings hurt? I'm all for providing additional services to underachieving kids, but this has got to be the dumbest reason to get rid of HGCs.

I've heard or read about this too. One of the larger problems cited for any type of tracking is that it ends up creating very visible and obvious socioeconomic and racial segregation. This is not unique to Starr. MCPS officials were talking about this years before Starr. Weast was politically more in favor of supporting and growing the GT and magnet schools so it was buried but there are many long time administrators in MCPS that would happily do away with the centers because they believe it is money wasted on already privileged kids . I suspect that Starr would do this in a second if the BOE wouldn't object. All of his rhetoric is in line with the no tracking, no acceleration, and no advanced opportunities educational model.

If they did away with HGC at the "lower" performing schools, and Asian/white kids from affluent areas stopped going there, all that would happen is that lower power performing school would be less diverse in that there would hardly be any Asian/white kids from higher ses. Having the HGC there actually seems to make those schools more diverse ethnically and SES.

If they truly want to desegregate for both race and SES they should just bus kids from one side of the "tracks" to the other. Doing away with HGC will only make the racial and SES divide bigger within schools. And the MSA or PARCC test scores would probably still show the achievement gap along racial lines.

Getting rid of HGC will neither achieve closing the achievement gap or desegregating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If they did away with HGC at the "lower" performing schools, and Asian/white kids from affluent areas stopped going there, all that would happen is that lower power performing school would be less diverse in that there would hardly be any Asian/white kids from higher ses. Having the HGC there actually seems to make those schools more diverse ethnically and SES.

If they truly want to desegregate for both race and SES they should just bus kids from one side of the "tracks" to the other. Doing away with HGC will only make the racial and SES divide bigger within schools. And the MSA or PARCC test scores would probably still show the achievement gap along racial lines.

Getting rid of HGC will neither achieve closing the achievement gap or desegregating.

Agreed. And everybody knows this -- including the MCPS people who supposedly are trying their best to close the HGCs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Shutting down the centers would also support social emotional learning. Its very harmful to minority or lower performing children to see children who look different from them always walking off to the gifted classes. It doesn't matter that everyone had equal opportunity to take the test and admittance was by score. To a kid its noticeable that the white and asian kids go to one set of classes and they go to another one in their own school. No its not fair to the white and asian kids but they have other advantages in life if they are already smart enough to get into a center or magnet.

This is the kind of zero-sum thinking many parents try to discourage in their children. It is ugly.

Yes, it is ugly. But the ugliness is on the part of the PP, for implying that all children have an equal opportunity to get into the HGC, it's just that the black and Hispanic kids are dumber, and that Starr's goal is to make black and Hispanic kids feel better about themselves by disadvantaging white and Asian kids.