Are middle schools and high schools impacted by 2.0?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just checked my Eastern magnet program directory and there are 11 pages of Silver Spring addresses vs. 7 pages of addresses from the rest of the catchment area: Bethesda, C. Chase, Potomac, Rockville, Olney, Burtonsville, Gaithersburg, Kensington. So unless you think there are 60% more qualified kids in Silver spring, I think the location does disadvantage kids who live far away from the MS magnet programs which are both located in the same area.

You are missing one of the reasons that magnets were created - to bring higher achieving kids into higher poverty schools.

In my opinion, he far bigger disparity is the quality of the non-magnet middle schools in w schools vs. east county. Many families in silver spring see the magnets as a way out of a not so great school. I think access to high quality regular middle schools more than makes up for the distance to a magnet that your kid may or may not get into.

Should that really be the goal of a magnet?

+1. I don't think it should be the goal of a magnet program for academically advanced kids.
Also if you are in an advanced class in a silver spring middle school like SSI or Newport Mill or Sligo you will have a peer group that is comparable/the same as the peer group in a "W" school and the curriculum IS the same.

But there are no advanced classes in middle school anymore except math and English. I like east county schools, but this is my biggest concern for my kids education in silver spring. I think your comment does apply in high school.

I think the history of the magnets is that they are a fairly non controversial way to integrate schools. I'm not sure how well it works in practice, but it seems to have boosted Blair's reputation.

No more gifted classes in middle school besides English and math? What??? When did this happen? Is this true for all middle schools? What about high schools? This is truly unfortunate. Where was the uproar?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here... Thanks for the responses, however I am winderinf more about the changes in the curriculum in middle school and high school rather than reporting of grades (although agree that the P/ES system is a horrendous system). . Does/will common core/2.0 affect non-math courses? According to the MCPS technology plan the goal is to remove all textbooks for all grades by 2016. So will material, resources move on-line -- and will this change be guided by a 2.0 or common core-based curriculum? If so, I am deeply concerned as 2.0 has really lowered standards at the elementary grade levels. I really hope MCPS leaves middle and high shools alone.

Seriously? I will have to find that link. One of the reasons we went private is because the lack of textbook was hard for our kid. With no text, you really have to listen and pay attention.

See page 9 of this report - bottom right bullet point states the goal by 2016 is to replace 70% of all written text with longline material. At the MCPS board meeting in which they announced personal laptops for all 3rd graders and the ultimate goal of eliminating all textbooks, the board erupted in applause- less admin work for them.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/boe/meetings/agenda/2013/053013/05.0%20Update%20Strategic%20Tech%20Plan.pdf

This is so ridiculous. We need kids eating lunch around noon-time, not 10:30 am, and kids out of trailers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well Starr does want to do a study on whether the GT centers and magnets are necessary. Its no secret that he hates these programs and would love to shut them down.

He does? Where did you learn this? Can you provide a link to the reference, please?

There is a line item on the approved current budget for $250K to cover a consultant to look at ALL magnet programs, including GT, immersion, etc.

Oh, God help us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think MCPS is already backing away from HGC and magnet support. Our former elementary school is one of the top scoring schools in the county yet I heard that only 1 3rd grader was accepted to the HGC program this year. Its not that the kids didn't score high enough but that there are so many more kids in our cluster that qualify now that the competition is much higher. HGC was a wonderful program and I'm happy that my child was able to go. If he was several years younger, he probably would not have gotten in.

For the kids that need this type of program and can work at that level with peers, its really a shame that MCPS stopped growing the program. I wouldn't advocate for lowing the standard but if they see a growing trend in students who qualify they should open more centers.

Correct, huge 200+ schools and $$$$100ms budgeted MCPS cannot and will not service more than a teeny tiny fraction of gifted students, and decreasing. THey would rather focus on illegal immigrants, grant money, and hiring more union teachers and multi-levels of admin.

That's because everyone is "doing just fine." Just like our society.

[Anonymous]

Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

+1 You nailed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

You can tell whether the education is better by touring the facility? That's a talent!

Also, what did your public school c. 1970s-1980s look like? This is what mine looked like: open classrooms, and almost everybody was white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

That's really interesting. I toured a lot of privates about four years ago when figuring out what to do with second DC regarding middle school. I was actually surprised that the privates weren't more advanced, and I saw some things that shocked me, like a teacher writing something with a big grammaticaly mistake on the board in one of the more well known Bethesda privates.

I have a DC who's been in test-in magnets since 4th grade and is now in a high school magnet, and my impression is that he has received an education on a par with or above any private I've seen -- really quite impressive. My second child, who attends schools in a "W" cluster but is not in a magnet, has not received nearly as high a level of content or instruction.

So in my view a lot of this is both curriculum content and expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well Starr does want to do a study on whether the GT centers and magnets are necessary. Its no secret that he hates these programs and would love to shut them down.

He does? Where did you learn this? Can you provide a link to the reference, please?

There is a line item on the approved current budget for $250K to cover a consultant to look at ALL magnet programs, including GT, immersion, etc.

Oh, God help us.

Yep. My only hope is that the "study" and fallout takes a few years so my kids are out of MCPS before he cuts out all magnets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. My only hope is that the "study" and fallout takes a few years so my kids are out of MCPS before he cuts out all magnets.

Starr could do this, if he wanted to, if his job were Omnipotent Dictator of Montgomery County Public Schools.

However, in actuality, his job is Superintendent of Montgomery County Public Schools, and he couldn't do it, even if he wanted to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

I don't think anyone is pitting magnets vs. regular schools. They serve different populations. the magnets are supposed to serve the top 3-5% of students. The regular schools are supposed to serve the much larger group of above average students by offering advanced courses in middle school in addition to on grade level courses. As far as I know most/all middle schools in MoCo. do this although one SS poster said their school did not. I also know middle school students in SS area middle schools who do take advanced science, advanced social studies and advanced english. Perhaps it is upto the principal to decide whether they offer advanced classes in these subjects. That would be very unfortunate (for the students) if it were upto the principal. For the poster who asked about "gifted" classes- these are gone in all MoCo middle schools in the wake of middle school "reform".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

That's really interesting. I toured a lot of privates about four years ago when figuring out what to do with second DC regarding middle school. I was actually surprised that the privates weren't more advanced, and I saw some things that shocked me, like a teacher writing something with a big grammaticaly mistake on the board in one of the more well known Bethesda privates.

I have a DC who's been in test-in magnets since 4th grade and is now in a high school magnet, and my impression is that he has received an education on a par with or above any private I've seen -- really quite impressive. My second child, who attends schools in a "W" cluster but is not in a magnet, has not received nearly as high a level of content or instruction.

So in my view a lot of this is both curriculum content and expectations.

This is my experience as well, with both of my kids having attended the HGC, MS magnets, and HS magnets. I do not have any experience with W schools, however.

-Former Big Three teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just checked my Eastern magnet program directory and there are 11 pages of Silver Spring addresses vs. 7 pages of addresses from the rest of the catchment area: Bethesda, C. Chase, Potomac, Rockville, Olney, Burtonsville, Gaithersburg, Kensington. So unless you think there are 60% more qualified kids in Silver spring, I think the location does disadvantage kids who live far away from the MS magnet programs which are both located in the same area.

You are missing one of the reasons that magnets were created - to bring higher achieving kids into higher poverty schools.

In my opinion, he far bigger disparity is the quality of the non-magnet middle schools in w schools vs. east county. Many families in silver spring see the magnets as a way out of a not so great school. I think access to high quality regular middle schools more than makes up for the distance to a magnet that your kid may or may not get into.

Should that really be the goal of a magnet?

+1. I don't think it should be the goal of a magnet program for academically advanced kids.
Also if you are in an advanced class in a silver spring middle school like SSI or Newport Mill or Sligo you will have a peer group that is comparable/the same as the peer group in a "W" school and the curriculum IS the same.

But there are no advanced classes in middle school anymore except math and English. I like east county schools, but this is my biggest concern for my kids education in silver spring. I think your comment does apply in high school.

I think the history of the magnets is that they are a fairly non controversial way to integrate schools. I'm not sure how well it works in practice, but it seems to have boosted Blair's reputation.

No more gifted classes in middle school besides English and math? What??? When did this happen? Is this true for all middle schools? What about high schools? This is truly unfortunate. Where was the uproar?

I don't have direct experience with middle school yet, but my understanding is that this change happened a few years ago. I think they say that all kids are in "advanced" classes now. I think that there are still true honors/AP classes in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just checked my Eastern magnet program directory and there are 11 pages of Silver Spring addresses vs. 7 pages of addresses from the rest of the catchment area: Bethesda, C. Chase, Potomac, Rockville, Olney, Burtonsville, Gaithersburg, Kensington. So unless you think there are 60% more qualified kids in Silver spring, I think the location does disadvantage kids who live far away from the MS magnet programs which are both located in the same area.

Thanks for the data. Very interesting, and damning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ha ha ha. They choose a location that made sense... For them! For juicing their test scores of suboptimal host schools, or as you say " improve the schools that house them". If they made the host school less inconvenient they'd suffer from high uptake and then serve an even smaller percentage of gifted students than they currently do. Then the cat would really be out of the bag on what a tiny HGC magnet program mcps is running (in absentee and relative terms), and how low a priority it is, esp versus fairfax' G&T programs, right across the river...

Of course MCPS chose the location that made sense for MCPS. How should they have chosen instead? Should they have chosen the location that makes sense for the people in Bethesda/Potomac/Chevy Chase?

The huge @$$ county should have chosen a selection of host schools spread out amongst density of students. You know, the people they serve - the students. With the dollars provided by the students' parents paying property taxes.

If MSPS is all about serving itself and you are OK with that, well then the death spiral has already begun. Any time a public good is about serving itself and not the public, with the public's money, you have growing issues.