Are middle schools and high schools impacted by 2.0?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

You can tell whether the education is better by touring the facility? That's a talent!

Also, what did your public school c. 1970s-1980s look like? This is what mine looked like: open classrooms, and almost everybody was white.

Well, for starters, the teachers insisted on excellence. They made kids stay after school for help with homework, unlike my kid's teacher who thought he was "just fine" but spent her time making an extra $100 an hour tutoring.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "looked." But yes, you can tell a lot by looking online too. Pull up the homework assignments. Too many misspellings and messy, incomplete instructions from MCPS. No wonder the kids in private right better - so do their teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

That's really interesting. I toured a lot of privates about four years ago when figuring out what to do with second DC regarding middle school. I was actually surprised that the privates weren't more advanced, and I saw some things that shocked me, like a teacher writing something with a big grammaticaly mistake on the board in one of the more well known Bethesda privates.

I have a DC who's been in test-in magnets since 4th grade and is now in a high school magnet, and my impression is that he has received an education on a par with or above any private I've seen -- really quite impressive. My second child, who attends schools in a "W" cluster but is not in a magnet, has not received nearly as high a level of content or instruction.

So in my view a lot of this is both curriculum content and expectations.

This is the PP. Look, I'll forgive anyone a spelling mistake once a while. It's more of a problem when it is consistent, or in materials that are going to an entire class, which should have been reviewed by the team.
And to clarify, I was comparing the "regular" curriculum/experience at a highly regarded "regular" MCPS school to privates, not the magnet programs. I understand the magnets are excellent - and MCPS should be EXPANDING them, not making it harder to get into them. I'm hoping my second DC makes it in as I really don't think we can handle two private school tuition payments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. My only hope is that the "study" and fallout takes a few years so my kids are out of MCPS before he cuts out all magnets.

Starr could do this, if he wanted to, if his job were Omnipotent Dictator of Montgomery County Public Schools.

However, in actuality, his job is Superintendent of Montgomery County Public Schools, and he couldn't do it, even if he wanted to.

Why do you say that? I remember reading a ton of warning cries on the GT list serv ten years ago. I think that list serv may even be defunct by now (I'd like to find it again if it's not). Anyway, I think there is a general climate of anti-intellectualism in the schools. They really don't seem to think that their job is to encourage every child to do his or her best. Instead, it's teach to the standard. Done. Move on. And I don't blame the teachers entirely - the curriculum is a mess and the demands put on the teachers are ridiculous.

However, it is also true that the talent pool available to teaching has changed dramatically. While many talented, bright women became public school teachers forty years ago, by the 80s, young women with similar backgrounds began pursuing the law, medicine, etc, as well as teaching. In fact, in my graduating class, it was the "so-so" students who became education majors, not the academic stars. Ironically, the private schools are full of former lawyers and other professionals who now are teaching. That's another reason I say the privates are more similar to the publics of yesterday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

You can tell whether the education is better by touring the facility? That's a talent!

Also, what did your public school c. 1970s-1980s look like? This is what mine looked like: open classrooms, and almost everybody was white.

Well, for starters, the teachers insisted on excellence. They made kids stay after school for help with homework, unlike my kid's teacher who thought he was "just fine" but spent her time making an extra $100 an hour tutoring.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "looked." But yes, you can tell a lot by looking online too. Pull up the homework assignments. Too many misspellings and messy, incomplete instructions from MCPS. No wonder the kids in private right better - so do their teachers.

I hope you did this on purpose....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

That's really interesting. I toured a lot of privates about four years ago when figuring out what to do with second DC regarding middle school. I was actually surprised that the privates weren't more advanced, and I saw some things that shocked me, like a teacher writing something with a big grammaticaly mistake on the board in one of the more well known Bethesda privates.

I have a DC who's been in test-in magnets since 4th grade and is now in a high school magnet, and my impression is that he has received an education on a par with or above any private I've seen -- really quite impressive. My second child, who attends schools in a "W" cluster but is not in a magnet, has not received nearly as high a level of content or instruction.

So in my view a lot of this is both curriculum content and expectations.

This is the PP. Look, I'll forgive anyone a spelling mistake once a while. It's more of a problem when it is consistent, or in materials that are going to an entire class, which should have been reviewed by the team.
And to clarify, I was comparing the "regular" curriculum/experience at a highly regarded "regular" MCPS school to privates, not the magnet programs. I understand the magnets are excellent - and MCPS should be EXPANDING them, not making it harder to get into them. I'm hoping my second DC makes it in as I really don't think we can handle two private school tuition payments.

Agreed -- in fact, I made one in my post! This was a bad grammatical mistake, not a spelling error.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. My only hope is that the "study" and fallout takes a few years so my kids are out of MCPS before he cuts out all magnets.

Starr could do this, if he wanted to, if his job were Omnipotent Dictator of Montgomery County Public Schools.

However, in actuality, his job is Superintendent of Montgomery County Public Schools, and he couldn't do it, even if he wanted to.

Well, in order for your post to be true, we voters would have to vote in a new school board. And I hope we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. My only hope is that the "study" and fallout takes a few years so my kids are out of MCPS before he cuts out all magnets.

Starr could do this, if he wanted to, if his job were Omnipotent Dictator of Montgomery County Public Schools.

However, in actuality, his job is Superintendent of Montgomery County Public Schools, and he couldn't do it, even if he wanted to.

Well, in order for your post to be true, we voters would have to vote in a new school board. And I hope we do.

I disagree. Can Starr do whatever he wants? No, he can't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, we're pitting HGC & magnet vs "regular schools." Meanwhile, even the "second tier" privates are surpassing the best MoCo schools. I was shocked, shocked, shocked when I toured privates. That is the real achievement gap: private education vs. public. The privates I toured much more closely resembled my public school circa 1970s/80s than MCPS of today.

I don't think anyone is pitting magnets vs. regular schools. They serve different populations. the magnets are supposed to serve the top 3-5% of students. The regular schools are supposed to serve the much larger group of above average students by offering advanced courses in middle school in addition to on grade level courses. As far as I know most/all middle schools in MoCo. do this although one SS poster said their school did not. I also know middle school students in SS area middle schools who do take advanced science, advanced social studies and advanced english. Perhaps it is upto the principal to decide whether they offer advanced classes in these subjects. That would be very unfortunate (for the students) if it were upto the principal. For the poster who asked about "gifted" classes- these are gone in all MoCo middle schools in the wake of middle school "reform".

Read the PDF someone posted. This is behind the comment about pitting magnets vs regular schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. My only hope is that the "study" and fallout takes a few years so my kids are out of MCPS before he cuts out all magnets.

Starr could do this, if he wanted to, if his job were Omnipotent Dictator of Montgomery County Public Schools.

However, in actuality, his job is Superintendent of Montgomery County Public Schools, and he couldn't do it, even if he wanted to.

Well, in order for your post to be true, we voters would have to vote in a new school board. And I hope we do.

Ok, who's running??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. My only hope is that the "study" and fallout takes a few years so my kids are out of MCPS before he cuts out all magnets.

Starr could do this, if he wanted to, if his job were Omnipotent Dictator of Montgomery County Public Schools.

However, in actuality, his job is Superintendent of Montgomery County Public Schools, and he couldn't do it, even if he wanted to.

Well, in order for your post to be true, we voters would have to vote in a new school board. And I hope we do.

Ok, who's running??

Well, I know I like Jill Ortman-Fouse. She has good ideas, she's smart and independent, and she supports things that are important to me like language programs. She's from the downtown Silver Spring/Takoma Park area, and as a resident of that area, I hve felt underrepresented by current board members, so I'm happy about that. I think she has a good perspective on balancing the needs of all students, including low-income kids, in terms of equity and access to the curriculum, without sacrificing challenge and depth for hig-achieving students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. My only hope is that the "study" and fallout takes a few years so my kids are out of MCPS before he cuts out all magnets.

Starr could do this, if he wanted to, if his job were Omnipotent Dictator of Montgomery County Public Schools.

However, in actuality, his job is Superintendent of Montgomery County Public Schools, and he couldn't do it, even if he wanted to.

Well, in order for your post to be true, we voters would have to vote in a new school board. And I hope we do.

Ok, who's running??

Well, I know I like Jill Ortman-Fouse. She has good ideas, she's smart and independent, and she supports things that are important to me like language programs. She's from the downtown Silver Spring/Takoma Park area, and as a resident of that area, I hve felt underrepresented by current board members, so I'm happy about that. I think she has a good perspective on balancing the needs of all students, including low-income kids, in terms of equity and access to the curriculum, without sacrificing challenge and depth for hig-achieving students.

Also forgot to mention: I will NOT be voting for Shebra Evans. She's part of the recent MCCPTA leadership, and I didn't like their approach. Also, there's a presumption that if you serve on MCCPTA board you then can automatically jump to the school board, and I really object to that kind of automatic succession that occurs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. My only hope is that the "study" and fallout takes a few years so my kids are out of MCPS before he cuts out all magnets.

Starr could do this, if he wanted to, if his job were Omnipotent Dictator of Montgomery County Public Schools.

However, in actuality, his job is Superintendent of Montgomery County Public Schools, and he couldn't do it, even if he wanted to.

Well, in order for your post to be true, we voters would have to vote in a new school board. And I hope we do.

Ok, who's running??

Well, I know I like Jill Ortman-Fouse. She has good ideas, she's smart and independent, and she supports things that are important to me like language programs. She's from the downtown Silver Spring/Takoma Park area, and as a resident of that area, I hve felt underrepresented by current board members, so I'm happy about that. I think she has a good perspective on balancing the needs of all students, including low-income kids, in terms of equity and access to the curriculum, without sacrificing challenge and depth for hig-achieving students.

From her website, here's what Jill supports:


As a Board of Education member, Jill will work for:

Proven strategies to attack the achievement/engagement gap, support diverse learning needs and challenge every student

Less time on standardized testing and paperwork, more time for teachers to teach

Greater transparency and accountability in budget and decision-making

Later high school start times for healthier kids and higher academic performance. The American Academy of Pediatrics says this is "one area of health where the evidence is unequivocal."
Smaller class sizes and more resource teachers, bilingual staff and counselors

More opportunities for exercise and curriculum enrichment--including arts, music, field trips and outdoor education

Better nutrition for our kids, including farm to school programs and salad bars in our schools

Earth-friendly policies like elimination of Styrofoam trays and pesticides on school fields

Better solutions to crowded schools and aging facilities; better planning with developers and consistent adequate public facility ordinances with municipalities

A more collaborative and accountable system for families of children with special needs, including shifting the burden of proof in special education due process to the school system.

More opportunities for strong, consistent bilingual education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. My only hope is that the "study" and fallout takes a few years so my kids are out of MCPS before he cuts out all magnets.

Starr could do this, if he wanted to, if his job were Omnipotent Dictator of Montgomery County Public Schools.

However, in actuality, his job is Superintendent of Montgomery County Public Schools, and he couldn't do it, even if he wanted to.

Well, in order for your post to be true, we voters would have to vote in a new school board. And I hope we do.

Ok, who's running??

Well, I know I like Jill Ortman-Fouse. She has good ideas, she's smart and independent, and she supports things that are important to me like language programs. She's from the downtown Silver Spring/Takoma Park area, and as a resident of that area, I hve felt underrepresented by current board members, so I'm happy about that. I think she has a good perspective on balancing the needs of all students, including low-income kids, in terms of equity and access to the curriculum, without sacrificing challenge and depth for hig-achieving students.

From her website, here's what Jill supports:


As a Board of Education member, Jill will work for:

Proven strategies to attack the achievement/engagement gap, support diverse learning needs and challenge every student

Less time on standardized testing and paperwork, more time for teachers to teach

Greater transparency and accountability in budget and decision-making

Later high school start times for healthier kids and higher academic performance. The American Academy of Pediatrics says this is "one area of health where the evidence is unequivocal."
Smaller class sizes and more resource teachers, bilingual staff and counselors

More opportunities for exercise and curriculum enrichment--including arts, music, field trips and outdoor education

Better nutrition for our kids, including farm to school programs and salad bars in our schools

Earth-friendly policies like elimination of Styrofoam trays and pesticides on school fields

Better solutions to crowded schools and aging facilities; better planning with developers and consistent adequate public facility ordinances with municipalities

A more collaborative and accountable system for families of children with special needs, including shifting the burden of proof in special education due process to the school system.

More opportunities for strong, consistent bilingual education

She sounds great; thanks for sharing. Are there any candidates or current board members on record as being strong supporters of the HGCs / magnets? Anyone willing to EXPAND them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why do you say that? I remember reading a ton of warning cries on the GT list serv ten years ago. I think that list serv may even be defunct by now (I'd like to find it again if it's not). Anyway, I think there is a general climate of anti-intellectualism in the schools. They really don't seem to think that their job is to encourage every child to do his or her best. Instead, it's teach to the standard. Done. Move on. And I don't blame the teachers entirely - the curriculum is a mess and the demands put on the teachers are ridiculous.

However, it is also true that the talent pool available to teaching has changed dramatically. While many talented, bright women became public school teachers forty years ago, by the 80s, young women with similar backgrounds began pursuing the law, medicine, etc, as well as teaching. In fact, in my graduating class, it was the "so-so" students who became education majors, not the academic stars. Ironically, the private schools are full of former lawyers and other professionals who now are teaching. That's another reason I say the privates are more similar to the publics of yesterday.

What are the private schools? I would love to visit them.