Thinking about female friendship lately

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find that my life is much better what I have a close female friend. But somehow it almost always goes awry.

My husband thinks women talk too much, confide to much, ask and take advice too much, have too many opinions about each other and a whole bunch of other things men don't generally experience in their friendships which, usually, last longer. Men can hang around a talk about music or politics or things -- not personal things -- relatively light things, and they don't end up feeling betrayed or like their values are not in sync. When they really need each other (a helping hand on moving day or something like that) I've noticed that they all jump to help each other in a way women usually don't. It's like an unspoken pact or something.

Maybe we expect too much of each other? The deep talks, the "being there" often, the unconditional acceptance, advice and such. I mean, my husband never asks his friends what he should do about anything. And they don't tell him and ask only the nice polite, safe type of questions. They basically drink and talk about music. But they don't have fights. Why do we have fights? What is the thing with us, anyway?

I don't have these problems. If I sense anything strange, I stop talking to the person. I've never been in a fight with a "friend" since I've become a mature adult. There are a lot of very very unhinged women out there. You need look no farther than DCUMs to find these people who are annoyed at the slightest infraction or question. If I were a man, I would be gay. I could not handle the mental instability.

Honestly, I have no time for drama. I have enough drama in my family so my drama cup is all full with no room left for more.

You and I basically agree. What I call a "fight" you call a falling out -- you stop talking to the friend if you sense anything strange. I've experienced this too, Meanwhile my husband has all of his friends from elementary school and all the ones he added along the way. There are no falling outs. They don't sense anything strange. They don't seem to be competing. It's more hanging out than soul-sharing, but it's starting to look better to me than the way we women have been defining our friendships. I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find that my life is much better what I have a close female friend. But somehow it almost always goes awry.

My husband thinks women talk too much, confide to much, ask and take advice too much, have too many opinions about each other and a whole bunch of other things men don't generally experience in their friendships which, usually, last longer. Men can hang around a talk about music or politics or things -- not personal things -- relatively light things, and they don't end up feeling betrayed or like their values are not in sync. When they really need each other (a helping hand on moving day or something like that) I've noticed that they all jump to help each other in a way women usually don't. It's like an unspoken pact or something.

Maybe we expect too much of each other? The deep talks, the "being there" often, the unconditional acceptance, advice and such. I mean, my husband never asks his friends what he should do about anything. And they don't tell him and ask only the nice polite, safe type of questions. They basically drink and talk about music. But they don't have fights. Why do we have fights? What is the thing with us, anyway?

I don't have these problems. If I sense anything strange, I stop talking to the person. I've never been in a fight with a "friend" since I've become a mature adult. There are a lot of very very unhinged women out there. You need look no farther than DCUMs to find these people who are annoyed at the slightest infraction or question. If I were a man, I would be gay. I could not handle the mental instability.

Honestly, I have no time for drama. I have enough drama in my family so my drama cup is all full with no room left for more.

Wow, that is really scary. Do you imagine you can ever find someone who you can have a friendship with and never "sense anything strange" over time??? Not if you are both human. The ability to work through problems is a given in any relationship. Sorry, but you sound a bit unhinged yourself.

You seem scared really easily-strange. I don't know what you are trembling in fear about.

To answer your only question, I have many friends whom I have "never sensed anything strange" about (and no I do not mean people who might act strange because they have severe anxiety or something like that). I think the person who stated the above refrenced comments knows what I'm talking about. By "strange" I mean someone who is critical or always wants to correct, a one upper, someone who is possessive, someone who cannot discuss politics without going nuts because someone has a different views, someone who always has to talk trash about other people, someone obsessed with attaching a dollar value to everything in a conversation such as "my $1500 handbag" or "My $250 Jimmy Choos"...I think you get gist.

I can honestly say that I've never had to work through problems with friends since high school and college days. I guess it is just healthy adult behavior to be respectful of each other. These are the kind of friends I have. Anyone else can just find a new friend. I'm pretty good at weeding these people out shortly after meeting them. So, I suppose they never reach the friend level. Makes it much easier for everyone. I don't have to complain about my friends on DCUM and recount incidents for all posters to comment on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find that my life is much better what I have a close female friend. But somehow it almost always goes awry.

My husband thinks women talk too much, confide to much, ask and take advice too much, have too many opinions about each other and a whole bunch of other things men don't generally experience in their friendships which, usually, last longer. Men can hang around a talk about music or politics or things -- not personal things -- relatively light things, and they don't end up feeling betrayed or like their values are not in sync. When they really need each other (a helping hand on moving day or something like that) I've noticed that they all jump to help each other in a way women usually don't. It's like an unspoken pact or something.

Maybe we expect too much of each other? The deep talks, the "being there" often, the unconditional acceptance, advice and such. I mean, my husband never asks his friends what he should do about anything. And they don't tell him and ask only the nice polite, safe type of questions. They basically drink and talk about music. But they don't have fights. Why do we have fights? What is the thing with us, anyway?

I don't have these problems. If I sense anything strange, I stop talking to the person. I've never been in a fight with a "friend" since I've become a mature adult. There are a lot of very very unhinged women out there. You need look no farther than DCUMs to find these people who are annoyed at the slightest infraction or question. If I were a man, I would be gay. I could not handle the mental instability.

Honestly, I have no time for drama. I have enough drama in my family so my drama cup is all full with no room left for more.

Wow, that is really scary. Do you imagine you can ever find someone who you can have a friendship with and never "sense anything strange" over time??? Not if you are both human. The ability to work through problems is a given in any relationship. Sorry, but you sound a bit unhinged yourself.

You seem scared really easily-strange. I don't know what you are trembling in fear about.

To answer your only question, I have many friends whom I have "never sensed anything strange" about (and no I do not mean people who might act strange because they have severe anxiety or something like that). I think the person who stated the above refrenced comments knows what I'm talking about. By "strange" I mean someone who is critical or always wants to correct, a one upper, someone who is possessive, someone who cannot discuss politics without going nuts because someone has a different views, someone who always has to talk trash about other people, someone obsessed with attaching a dollar value to everything in a conversation such as "my $1500 handbag" or "My $250 Jimmy Choos"...I think you get gist.

I can honestly say that I've never had to work through problems with friends since high school and college days. I guess it is just healthy adult behavior to be respectful of each other. These are the kind of friends I have. Anyone else can just find a new friend. I'm pretty good at weeding these people out shortly after meeting them. So, I suppose they never reach the friend level. Makes it much easier for everyone. I don't have to complain about my friends on DCUM and recount incidents for all posters to comment on.

Wow, you sound so perfect and put together and FUN!

[Anonymous]

I am the birds of a feather poster. I should have even mentioned weight, b/c it isn't about that (but leave it to DC URBAN MOMS to go only there). The point is I love to drink wine and eat some brie. I want to do that with someone else. I do not care what size they are. I want to go on a hike in the woods. I want to do that with someone else. I do not care what size they are. My point is, lifestyles, values, priorities must match up, but the extent to which they match can be pretty limited. I have VERY diverse friends, some better, some worse. I let people go when they demonstrate values I do not get down with....sleeping with other people's husbands, lying, extreme competitiveness, excessive gossiping.

Somehow, someone will make this post out of weight again...

[Anonymous]

PP here. I mean to say I should have NOT mentioned weight.

[Anonymous]

Can we go back to the issue of why women fight or fall out so much more than men do? I am the poster who used the word "fight". I still believe that the other poster simply refers to what I would call a "fight" as an immediate disengagement when a friend, or potential friend does something offensive.

Men don't do this. They don't. Their friendships may stay at a more superficial level -- doing things together and being pretty quiet -- but they last.

I would really like to have some more friends. It hurts to break up with a friend. And it hurts to feel lonely and yes, I do feel lonely even with a good husband and a few friends scattered about. I've had close friendships go sour time and again. Maybe it's something about me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we go back to the issue of why women fight or fall out so much more than men do? I am the poster who used the word "fight". I still believe that the other poster simply refers to what I would call a "fight" as an immediate disengagement when a friend, or potential friend does something offensive.

Men don't do this. They don't. Their friendships may stay at a more superficial level -- doing things together and being pretty quiet -- but they last.

I would really like to have some more friends. It hurts to break up with a friend. And it hurts to feel lonely and yes, I do feel lonely even with a good husband and a few friends scattered about. I've had close friendships go sour time and again. Maybe it's something about me.

I'm that other poster, I think we are talking about the same thing.

You know, poster your last paragraph makes me sad. I wish I could reach accoross the internet chasm and give you a big hug. I'm not so sure it is so easy for men to keep and make friends. I know friendships and connections are much more important to me than to my husband. You are correct, my DH does not spill his guts to his friends like I might to my friends, but I don't want superficial relationships. I want to be a shoulder to cry on and I want a shoulder to sometimes cry on.

You do not sound like there is something wrong with you. It is REALLY hard to make and keep friends in this area. I have managed to find a few really nice people, but it has taken a long time to build my network of people I can really count on. And even the, there are maybe only 2 or 3 who would REALLY be there if I needed them (such as if I lost my home and had nowhere to go).

[Anonymous]

I never realized what good friends my college friends were until I moved to DC. I have a million acquaintances here and get invited to tons of events and parties but I don't have anyone to call if I were in an emergency or going to the hospital. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Can we go back to the issue of why women fight or fall out so much more than men do? I am the poster who used the word "fight". I still believe that the other poster simply refers to what I would call a "fight" as an immediate disengagement when a friend, or potential friend does something offensive.

Men don't do this. They don't. Their friendships may stay at a more superficial level -- doing things together and being pretty quiet -- but they last.

I would really like to have some more friends. It hurts to break up with a friend. And it hurts to feel lonely and yes, I do feel lonely even with a good husband and a few friends scattered about. I've had close friendships go sour time and again. Maybe it's something about me.

I do agree that men have more superficial friendships than women do, in general, but I don't necessarily agree that female friendships are harder to maintain over time. I'm fairly drama-free (pretty hard to offend), but I have had a couple of fallings-out with close friends in my adult life. In one case, the friendship ended and though it has been repaired, it will never be the same. But for the most part, if I DO have an argument with a friend (pretty rare), we get over it and move on. One of my very best friends and I have had hard, mean fights a couple of times over the years but thank goodness it didn't end the friendship. We might have been mad at each other, but we love each other. Thank goodness many good friendships can survive a rough patch -- just like, say, your relationship with your sisters, or your marriage. Fights happen, but hopefully they can be healed if you love the other person enough. PP, I am sorry you have had a rough time. Maybe if you miss some of these estranged friends you could reach out to them?

It is hard to see your best girlfriends when you are all living in different places and married with children, though. I love them just the same but I would kill to see them more.

I have another friend with whom I've had a couple of disagreements over the years, a couple of which were big, mean, ugly fights. But we came through it because we love each other (and I am eternally grateful).

[Anonymous]

I think men don't fight because, IMHO, their friendships are very surface. Not deep at all. They work hard to avoid conflict, and that means avoiding anything emotional, personal, scary... anything that makes them vulnerable. So they watch football together, own fantasy teams together, talk about the giants, go golfing, do very little talking. The men in my group mostly avoid politics too.

Women are much more emotionally involved with one another. Which means we are much more able to hurt one another, intentionally or not. We are more likely to offend one another, intentionally or not.

I have a group of maybe a dozen friends, mostly couples. The male relationships are all about football, golf, mutual favors, BBQing, etc. Over the years, I have withdrawn more and more from the female relationships because I couldn't take the drama. It seemed somebody was always mad at someone else for some offense, perceived or real. With a FT job, two little kids, and a bad marriage, I couldn't spend my time worrying about what I might have done this time that might have upset so and so. And my relationships with the men have always been curtailed by my own sense of propriety. I wouldn't be calling, hanging out with, having lunch with somebody else's husband regularly. The friendships with the men were intentionally kept arms-length.

I still go to the parties, attend the dinners, and have the playdates, but the real me is not really there anymore. It's kinda sad but I have to shut down a bit during this intense time in my family life.

It is sad. I miss my best friend from college. But she has totally changed. I'll leave it at, we are obviously no longer compatible at ALL.

[Anonymous]

I guess I just don't look down on men's friendships, just because they aren't as deep as female friendships. I used to. But then I realized that these men are doing something relatively simple: enjoying each other's company. Usually it involves a common interest. My husband feels no need to bare his soul to his buddies. That doesn't mean he won't say anything at all, but I think you get the idea.

I don't know that these friendships are less valuable. Like I said before, when one of my husband's buddies needs a ride, or help moving, or something involving a hospital stay -- they are always around for each other. Usually without even being asked. It is just unspoken but understood that they will do it. That has not been my consistent experience in female friendships. Some friends will stay up all night talking to you, but they won't go out of their way for you. Not even when asked.

[Anonymous]

I don't know that these friendships are less valuable. Like I said before, when one of my husband's buddies needs a ride, or help moving, or something involving a hospital stay -- they are always around for each other. Usually without even being asked. It is just unspoken but understood that they will do it. That has not been my consistent experience in female friendships. Some friends will stay up all night talking to you, but they won't go out of their way for you. Not even when asked.

You need nicer friends! Then again, I don't want my female friends to help move, etc. I do depend on them more for emotional support than for doing things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find that my life is much better what I have a close female friend. But somehow it almost always goes awry.

My husband thinks women talk too much, confide to much, ask and take advice too much, have too many opinions about each other and a whole bunch of other things men don't generally experience in their friendships which, usually, last longer. Men can hang around a talk about music or politics or things -- not personal things -- relatively light things, and they don't end up feeling betrayed or like their values are not in sync. When they really need each other (a helping hand on moving day or something like that) I've noticed that they all jump to help each other in a way women usually don't. It's like an unspoken pact or something.

Maybe we expect too much of each other? The deep talks, the "being there" often, the unconditional acceptance, advice and such. I mean, my husband never asks his friends what he should do about anything. And they don't tell him and ask only the nice polite, safe type of questions. They basically drink and talk about music. But they don't have fights. Why do we have fights? What is the thing with us, anyway?

I don't have these problems. If I sense anything strange, I stop talking to the person. I've never been in a fight with a "friend" since I've become a mature adult. There are a lot of very very unhinged women out there. You need look no farther than DCUMs to find these people who are annoyed at the slightest infraction or question. If I were a man, I would be gay. I could not handle the mental instability.

Honestly, I have no time for drama. I have enough drama in my family so my drama cup is all full with no room left for more.

Wow, that is really scary. Do you imagine you can ever find someone who you can have a friendship with and never "sense anything strange" over time??? Not if you are both human. The ability to work through problems is a given in any relationship. Sorry, but you sound a bit unhinged yourself.

You seem scared really easily-strange. I don't know what you are trembling in fear about.

To answer your only question, I have many friends whom I have "never sensed anything strange" about (and no I do not mean people who might act strange because they have severe anxiety or something like that). I think the person who stated the above refrenced comments knows what I'm talking about. By "strange" I mean someone who is critical or always wants to correct, a one upper, someone who is possessive, someone who cannot discuss politics without going nuts because someone has a different views, someone who always has to talk trash about other people, someone obsessed with attaching a dollar value to everything in a conversation such as "my $1500 handbag" or "My $250 Jimmy Choos"...I think you get gist.

I can honestly say that I've never had to work through problems with friends since high school and college days. I guess it is just healthy adult behavior to be respectful of each other. These are the kind of friends I have. Anyone else can just find a new friend. I'm pretty good at weeding these people out shortly after meeting them. So, I suppose they never reach the friend level. Makes it much easier for everyone. I don't have to complain about my friends on DCUM and recount incidents for all posters to comment on.

pp - you are so hyper critical of the person who posted this originally. I would never want to be your friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find that my life is much better what I have a close female friend. But somehow it almost always goes awry.

My husband thinks women talk too much, confide to much, ask and take advice too much, have too many opinions about each other and a whole bunch of other things men don't generally experience in their friendships which, usually, last longer. Men can hang around a talk about music or politics or things -- not personal things -- relatively light things, and they don't end up feeling betrayed or like their values are not in sync. When they really need each other (a helping hand on moving day or something like that) I've noticed that they all jump to help each other in a way women usually don't. It's like an unspoken pact or something.

Maybe we expect too much of each other? The deep talks, the "being there" often, the unconditional acceptance, advice and such. I mean, my husband never asks his friends what he should do about anything. And they don't tell him and ask only the nice polite, safe type of questions. They basically drink and talk about music. But they don't have fights. Why do we have fights? What is the thing with us, anyway?

I totally agree with you. Women are difficult. Look at the reactions you got from the women on this forum for writing what you wrote . I can say i have 2 women friends...one from when i was 8 years old, another who i've known for a decade. those are the only women i feel free and open with, whom i trust will be around no matter what. other than that, i'm still looking for that kindred spirit. my husband has the same kind of male friendships you describe, but i think my female friends, yes those 2, are more fulfilling on a emotional, day-to-day level.

good luck finding that kindred spirit! i'm trying to find the same. it's like trying to find a spouse!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can we go back to the issue of why women fight or fall out so much more than men do? I am the poster who used the word "fight". I still believe that the other poster simply refers to what I would call a "fight" as an immediate disengagement when a friend, or potential friend does something offensive.

Men don't do this. They don't. Their friendships may stay at a more superficial level -- doing things together and being pretty quiet -- but they last.

I would really like to have some more friends. It hurts to break up with a friend. And it hurts to feel lonely and yes, I do feel lonely even with a good husband and a few friends scattered about. I've had close friendships go sour time and again. Maybe it's something about me.

I've been thinking about this subject a lot recently. I've just lost a friend who got divorced and suddenly lost all empathy for someone married with kids. If we were buddies, as my DH is with many of his pals, we may have stayed friends. She was a close friend with whom we shared many aspects of our lives. But since the divorce, she has dropped me, which I found bewildering and sad. I've known her since college, and always counted her as one of my best friends. How does one replace that kind of friendship?

Another friend I've known since childhood has drifted away also. She used to look down on me because my family was poor, and hers was rich. But after DH and I moved into a nice house (not quite as nice as hers, but pretty close), she just disappeared. I don't think she could stand to see me as an equal. But she was funny, and I miss her too.

I have many aquaintences, and a few people I can call upon in an emergency, but I still feel lonely because my closest friends all live in other states. I don't think anyone new can replace friends I've known for decades. And by "new" I mean people I've known for five years! Perhaps women's expectations (or mine at least) for female friendships are too high?