APS - Percentage of 2nd/4th Graders w/ Very High (95%+) NNAT/CogAT Scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not really about the percentiles. Up to 40% of the kids in some schools end up in the AAP program -- but the ones who score in are a minuscule 2-5%. In my opinion, the more important bit is the teacher's recommendation (packaged in the GBRS score). In some schools, teachers are allowed to be more creative, and children are encouraged to engage at a higher level -- hence the higher GBRS numbers. If your child did not score in the "pool" (and sometimes even if he did!), the only way to still get in the AAP is through a teacher who really appreciates him.

So.. it *is* a beauty pageant after all.

Couldn't disagree more. My kid scored really high, but wasn't highly regarded by 1st or 2nd grade teacher b/c he is so easily distracted and didn't really complete work very well. Now, in AAP, his teacher says he's perfect for the AAP class, he got the top score in Word Masters and breezes through the math. Even his behavior scores are better in AAP than in gen. ed. If it had been up to his 1st and 2nd grade teachers and the AART, he would not be in AAP. The compliant child with perfect hand-writing is not necessarily the smartest. The goof-off child who has trouble sitting still and getting work done in gen ed might just be great in AAP. The scores were very important to my child being selected and predicting that he would do well in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son got 99% on the COGAT but we weren't offered anything (and never have been). I'm assuming this is because he's 2e (he's also dyslexic) and no one knows how to deal with that in Arlington. I've given up on asking about any gifted services for him, as it never goes anywhere and, regardless, is far from our biggest issue.

have you tried special ed? can't imagine they couldn't be helpful

If in your budget you should consider a local private. Many are wonderful with 2e kiddos. Also keep in mind that many kids with SN test artifically high on COGAT because they cannot get through enough of the test to show the full result. That may be why APS is not contacting you to provide services. That's not to say your kid is not smart, just that there may not be what is though to be a good assessment of that just yet. If the SN are of the type that you can develop "out of them," try testing again after that point and see what happens. Of course, in our similar experience, GT is not the best in APS anyway, which is why I mention private.

Maybe I'm misreading your post, but what do you mean when you say SN kids test artificially high because they can't get through enough of the test? I thought they would test artificially low for not getting through the test because unanswered questions are marked incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son got 99% on the COGAT but we weren't offered anything (and never have been). I'm assuming this is because he's 2e (he's also dyslexic) and no one knows how to deal with that in Arlington. I've given up on asking about any gifted services for him, as it never goes anywhere and, regardless, is far from our biggest issue.

have you tried special ed? can't imagine they couldn't be helpful

If in your budget you should consider a local private. Many are wonderful with 2e kiddos. Also keep in mind that many kids with SN test artifically high on COGAT because they cannot get through enough of the test to show the full result. That may be why APS is not contacting you to provide services. That's not to say your kid is not smart, just that there may not be what is though to be a good assessment of that just yet. If the SN are of the type that you can develop "out of them," try testing again after that point and see what happens. Of course, in our similar experience, GT is not the best in APS anyway, which is why I mention private.

Maybe I'm misreading your post, but what do you mean when you say SN kids test artificially high because they can't get through enough of the test? I thought they would test artificially low for not getting through the test because unanswered questions are marked incorrect.

Depends on how far they get. It can cut both ways, but IQ scoring is very tricky. Tests that stop short due to a SN are far from reliable. I'm just staying that could lead to APS not believing it to be valid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a 2nd grader in APS. Did they take the CogAT at the beginning of school? Are those results mailed like the NNAT or do they just go to the school. I'm trying to figure out if I've seen them.

For future reference, you will probably receive a bit of a notice before your kid takes the test (I think it was a couple of weeks for my 4th grader) and then results are mailed home a few weeks later. Mine took the CogAT in November and we received the results about a week ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 2nd grader in APS. Did they take the CogAT at the beginning of school? Are those results mailed like the NNAT or do they just go to the school. I'm trying to figure out if I've seen them.

For future reference, you will probably receive a bit of a notice before your kid takes the test (I think it was a couple of weeks for my 4th grader) and then results are mailed home a few weeks later. Mine took the CogAT in November and we received the results about a week ago.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is it possible that 95%-tile actually ranks them below avg in APS???

Nope, but it really isn't special enough to need more than Arlington provides to the average kid.

That's not necessarily true for all elementary schools in the APS system. From anecdotal stories across schools, it's a mixed bag.

Now that 2014 CogAT scores are in, does anybody have an idea about score trends in their school? And what cutoff their schools are using (if any) in order to provide additional services.

I don't know what the trend is in our school, but the "cutoff" question was asked recently of my child's gifted resources teacher at a meeting. First off, most kids are identified before the CogAT is given in 4th grade. The GR teacher was not willing to give a cutoff number since there isn't one, but said that most identified kids are going to have scores clustered around the 130 mark, but that doesn't mean that some kids closer to 120, or even below, would be ruled out since it doesn't all come down to this one test. Additionally, a kid could receive perfect scores in two of the ability areas but a low score in the third that drags down the composite. So a poster child for math giftedness could totally blow the verbal part of the test and end up with a composite score that doesn't look that impressive. He would still get gifted services in math.

The takeaway I got from that meeting was that in APS (or our school, anyway) the CogAT is more a tool for assessing kids' abilities for general teaching purposes rather than as a gifted resources identification tool, but that it CAN be used in conjunction with other assessments to identify some kids that haven't been ID'd already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is it possible that 95%-tile actually ranks them below avg in APS???

Nope, but it really isn't special enough to need more than Arlington provides to the average kid.

That's not necessarily true for all elementary schools in the APS system. From anecdotal stories across schools, it's a mixed bag.

Now that 2014 CogAT scores are in, does anybody have an idea about score trends in their school? And what cutoff their schools are using (if any) in order to provide additional services.

I don't know what the trend is in our school, but the "cutoff" question was asked recently of my child's gifted resources teacher at a meeting. First off, most kids are identified before the CogAT is given in 4th grade. The GR teacher was not willing to give a cutoff number since there isn't one, but said that most identified kids are going to have scores clustered around the 130 mark, but that doesn't mean that some kids closer to 120, or even below, would be ruled out since it doesn't all come down to this one test. Additionally, a kid could receive perfect scores in two of the ability areas but a low score in the third that drags down the composite. So a poster child for math giftedness could totally blow the verbal part of the test and end up with a composite score that doesn't look that impressive. He would still get gifted services in math.

The takeaway I got from that meeting was that in APS (or our school, anyway) the CogAT is more a tool for assessing kids' abilities for general teaching purposes rather than as a gifted resources identification tool, but that it CAN be used in conjunction with other assessments to identify some kids that haven't been ID'd already.

That's a nice detailed answer. APS is not really clear about how CogATs are used. But from what I could *dig* out from our school, they said students who scored above a certain cutoff (around 96 percentile) would now be evaluated for gifted service if they were not already being provided the same. That does not mean they will necessarily get it but their files will be reviewed. Guess this is better than the previous system which was perhaps not entirely objective. BTW 130 is around 97 percentile which is what your school GR said, seems like for APS, the trigger pt is around 96-97 percentile. One drawback of APS is that there does not seem to be level 3 equivalent pullout like FPS - in class differentiation is sketchy because its teacher dependent.

[Anonymous]

My kid scored 99th percentile on the tests at an APS elementary school. Straight A student and looks for new work. Wasn't offered a spot in GT. We asked for an explanation, but all they said is that he didn't seem interested in school work. SMH. I think we didn't donate enough to the PTA. It's a popularity contest at my kid's school. That's all it is. We're totally disillusioned. We thought about appealing to the county, I'm sure we'd "win" based on the numbers alone. But what really would we win? More time with people who don't know what GT is. Score!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid scored 99th percentile on the tests at an APS elementary school. Straight A student and looks for new work. Wasn't offered a spot in GT. We asked for an explanation, but all they said is that he didn't seem interested in school work. SMH. I think we didn't donate enough to the PTA. It's a popularity contest at my kid's school. That's all it is. We're totally disillusioned. We thought about appealing to the county, I'm sure we'd "win" based on the numbers alone. But what really would we win? More time with people who don't know what GT is. Score!

Strange. Certainly PTA does not participate in review committee. And "didn't seem interested" should be evidence based. You should ask to see his work samples at school. Worth an appeal with that score. Having said that, APS is not quite gung ho about "gifted" as FPS - both schools and parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid scored 99th percentile on the tests at an APS elementary school. Straight A student and looks for new work. Wasn't offered a spot in GT. We asked for an explanation, but all they said is that he didn't seem interested in school work. SMH. I think we didn't donate enough to the PTA. It's a popularity contest at my kid's school. That's all it is. We're totally disillusioned. We thought about appealing to the county, I'm sure we'd "win" based on the numbers alone. But what really would we win? More time with people who don't know what GT is. Score!

It has absolutely nothing to do with the PTA. Lol.

[Anonymous]

my son scored ~ 125 last year and was offered math service he didn't need - he's having trouble getting As doing regular math and routinely got low scores on CML tests. not sure what the GT teacher was thinking. he's not being pullout this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my son scored ~ 125 last year and was offered math service he didn't need - he's having trouble getting As doing regular math and routinely got low scores on CML tests. not sure what the GT teacher was thinking. he's not being pullout this year.

Perhaps 125 ( which is a tad lower but in range) was better than most other kids in his class. But a good idea to pull the child out if having trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid scored 99th percentile on the tests at an APS elementary school. Straight A student and looks for new work. Wasn't offered a spot in GT. We asked for an explanation, but all they said is that he didn't seem interested in school work. SMH. I think we didn't donate enough to the PTA. It's a popularity contest at my kid's school. That's all it is. We're totally disillusioned. We thought about appealing to the county, I'm sure we'd "win" based on the numbers alone. But what really would we win? More time with people who don't know what GT is. Score!

It has absolutely nothing to do with the PTA. Lol.

Ha ha...funny excuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son got 99% on the COGAT but we weren't offered anything (and never have been). I'm assuming this is because he's 2e (he's also dyslexic) and no one knows how to deal with that in Arlington. I've given up on asking about any gifted services for him, as it never goes anywhere and, regardless, is far from our biggest issue.

have you tried special ed? can't imagine they couldn't be helpful

If in your budget you should consider a local private. Many are wonderful with 2e kiddos. Also keep in mind that many kids with SN test artifically high on COGAT because they cannot get through enough of the test to show the full result. That may be why APS is not contacting you to provide services. That's not to say your kid is not smart, just that there may not be what is though to be a good assessment of that just yet. If the SN are of the type that you can develop "out of them," try testing again after that point and see what happens. Of course, in our similar experience, GT is not the best in APS anyway, which is why I mention private.

I'm the poster the 2e child. I get your point, but it doesn't happen to be our case. As part of his IEP evaluation, the school had to do extensive testing. We've seen on several different individual tests, given one on one by trained psychologists, that his IQ is in the upper extreme range. But he's 10 and still can't reliably spell words like "homework". We aren't fighting the fight, mostly because we don't want him pulled out of class for anything, but it would've been nice to have had his intelligence formally acknowledged and to have someone ask us. He's had such self esteem issues related to the dyslexia, it would've been nice to be able to give him that little boost that says "see, you really ARE just as smart as little johnny and janie".

FWIW, my other son took the NNAT this year and scored at the 95th percentile. Not high enough, I gather, for our school to recommend gifted services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid scored 99th percentile on the tests at an APS elementary school. Straight A student and looks for new work. Wasn't offered a spot in GT. We asked for an explanation, but all they said is that he didn't seem interested in school work. SMH. I think we didn't donate enough to the PTA. It's a popularity contest at my kid's school. That's all it is. We're totally disillusioned. We thought about appealing to the county, I'm sure we'd "win" based on the numbers alone. But what really would we win? More time with people who don't know what GT is. Score!

I think this is our school. I'm not going to stress about GT. If my kids do need additional resources, I will look outside of the school system.