APS - Percentage of 2nd/4th Graders w/ Very High (95%+) NNAT/CogAT Scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm the poster the 2e child. I get your point, but it doesn't happen to be our case. As part of his IEP evaluation, the school had to do extensive testing. We've seen on several different individual tests, given one on one by trained psychologists, that his IQ is in the upper extreme range. But he's 10 and still can't reliably spell words like "homework". We aren't fighting the fight, mostly because we don't want him pulled out of class for anything, but it would've been nice to have had his intelligence formally acknowledged and to have someone ask us. He's had such self esteem issues related to the dyslexia, it would've been nice to be able to give him that little boost that says "see, you really ARE just as smart as little johnny and janie".

couldn't the individual test results boost his confidence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm the poster the 2e child. I get your point, but it doesn't happen to be our case. As part of his IEP evaluation, the school had to do extensive testing. We've seen on several different individual tests, given one on one by trained psychologists, that his IQ is in the upper extreme range. But he's 10 and still can't reliably spell words like "homework". We aren't fighting the fight, mostly because we don't want him pulled out of class for anything, but it would've been nice to have had his intelligence formally acknowledged and to have someone ask us. He's had such self esteem issues related to the dyslexia, it would've been nice to be able to give him that little boost that says "see, you really ARE just as smart as little johnny and janie".

couldn't the individual test results boost his confidence?

No - the kid has probably heard teachers and others say the scores aren't reliable enough. ouch. Poor guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid scored 99th percentile on the tests at an APS elementary school. Straight A student and looks for new work. Wasn't offered a spot in GT. We asked for an explanation, but all they said is that he didn't seem interested in school work. SMH. I think we didn't donate enough to the PTA. It's a popularity contest at my kid's school. That's all it is. We're totally disillusioned. We thought about appealing to the county, I'm sure we'd "win" based on the numbers alone. But what really would we win? More time with people who don't know what GT is. Score!

Being smart and a high-achiever does not equal gifted. Arlington is FILLED with smart, high-achieving kids. Gifted behavior is something else entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid scored 99th percentile on the tests at an APS elementary school. Straight A student and looks for new work. Wasn't offered a spot in GT. We asked for an explanation, but all they said is that he didn't seem interested in school work. SMH. I think we didn't donate enough to the PTA. It's a popularity contest at my kid's school. That's all it is. We're totally disillusioned. We thought about appealing to the county, I'm sure we'd "win" based on the numbers alone. But what really would we win? More time with people who don't know what GT is. Score!

Being smart and a high-achiever does not equal gifted. Arlington is FILLED with smart, high-achieving kids. Gifted behavior is something else entirely.

Sure, one test score may not indicated "gifted." But APS kids are reviewed and tested even beyond these initial tests. In any event, no process is entirely objective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid scored 99th percentile on the tests at an APS elementary school. Straight A student and looks for new work. Wasn't offered a spot in GT. We asked for an explanation, but all they said is that he didn't seem interested in school work. SMH. I think we didn't donate enough to the PTA. It's a popularity contest at my kid's school. That's all it is. We're totally disillusioned. We thought about appealing to the county, I'm sure we'd "win" based on the numbers alone. But what really would we win? More time with people who don't know what GT is. Score!

Being smart and a high-achiever does not equal gifted. Arlington is FILLED with smart, high-achieving kids. Gifted behavior is something else entirely.

Exactly, it is something other than high achieving and smart. For our son, he had 2 ability (not achievement) tests at the school come back with scores of 99%, 150+. What made us disillusioned is that kids who scored in the 120s on those tests were let in the program. An independent WISC exam came back with an IQ in the low 150s, with very high quantitative skills. This is not a close call. 120s, 130s, may be a close call, or may just be "smart and high achieving." There were other kids at this school who were denied with similar scores. When the explanation of why he wasn't qualified was "he doesn't seem interested in school work", that shows a misunderstanding by the school GT counselor of what GT is. It is not smart, it is not high achieving, it is a measurable difference in ability. This piece of data anyway reflects poorly on APS GT services because it suggests decisions are made because of something other than ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid scored 99th percentile on the tests at an APS elementary school. Straight A student and looks for new work. Wasn't offered a spot in GT. We asked for an explanation, but all they said is that he didn't seem interested in school work. SMH. I think we didn't donate enough to the PTA. It's a popularity contest at my kid's school. That's all it is. We're totally disillusioned. We thought about appealing to the county, I'm sure we'd "win" based on the numbers alone. But what really would we win? More time with people who don't know what GT is. Score!

Being smart and a high-achiever does not equal gifted. Arlington is FILLED with smart, high-achieving kids. Gifted behavior is something else entirely.

Exactly, it is something other than high achieving and smart. For our son, he had 2 ability (not achievement) tests at the school come back with scores of 99%, 150+. What made us disillusioned is that kids who scored in the 120s on those tests were let in the program. An independent WISC exam came back with an IQ in the low 150s, with very high quantitative skills. This is not a close call. 120s, 130s, may be a close call, or may just be "smart and high achieving." There were other kids at this school who were denied with similar scores. When the explanation of why he wasn't qualified was "he doesn't seem interested in school work", that shows a misunderstanding by the school GT counselor of what GT is. It is not smart, it is not high achieving, it is a measurable difference in ability. This piece of data anyway reflects poorly on APS GT services because it suggests decisions are made because of something other than ability.

It's not really even about "ability" so much as it is about learning differently. When you talk about "measurable difference in ability" you imply superiority. True "gifted" programs are actually filled with kids who are also "special needs." I.e., kids we might have called "idiot savants" in past times. Gifted isn't about "extraordinary ability" it's about thinking differently and learning differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid scored 99th percentile on the tests at an APS elementary school. Straight A student and looks for new work. Wasn't offered a spot in GT. We asked for an explanation, but all they said is that he didn't seem interested in school work. SMH. I think we didn't donate enough to the PTA. It's a popularity contest at my kid's school. That's all it is. We're totally disillusioned. We thought about appealing to the county, I'm sure we'd "win" based on the numbers alone. But what really would we win? More time with people who don't know what GT is. Score!

Being smart and a high-achiever does not equal gifted. Arlington is FILLED with smart, high-achieving kids. Gifted behavior is something else entirely.

Exactly, it is something other than high achieving and smart. For our son, he had 2 ability (not achievement) tests at the school come back with scores of 99%, 150+. What made us disillusioned is that kids who scored in the 120s on those tests were let in the program. An independent WISC exam came back with an IQ in the low 150s, with very high quantitative skills. This is not a close call. 120s, 130s, may be a close call, or may just be "smart and high achieving." There were other kids at this school who were denied with similar scores. When the explanation of why he wasn't qualified was "he doesn't seem interested in school work", that shows a misunderstanding by the school GT counselor of what GT is. It is not smart, it is not high achieving, it is a measurable difference in ability. This piece of data anyway reflects poorly on APS GT services because it suggests decisions are made because of something other than ability.

It's not really even about "ability" so much as it is about learning differently. When you talk about "measurable difference in ability" you imply superiority. True "gifted" programs are actually filled with kids who are also "special needs." I.e., kids we might have called "idiot savants" in past times. Gifted isn't about "extraordinary ability" it's about thinking differently and learning differently.

You make a fair point. But by your definition both Fairfax and perhaps APS as well programs are not for "gifted." Farifax sends (there is a doc floating on the AAP board) significant % of its kids to gifted centers (level 4) and pulls out another segment (level 3). That's lots (hundreds) of kids. "Gifted" as practiced in NOVA is just another level of differentiation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:is it possible that 95%-tile actually ranks them below avg in APS???

No. not even close.

The 50th percentile is exactly the midpoint (actually median, not average, but the same in a bell curve distribution).

The score for the NNAT is for all kids everywhere who take the test. Many believe it's possible that the the average/median here in Nova is higher due to the above average incomes and education documented here. In fact, on the CoGat, there is a separate stacking for fairfax and you can compute easily that the mid-point is about 3.5-6 points higher than the entire pool in FFX (APS may differ slightly not not likely drastically)

It is somewhat reasonable therefore to say that the 55th percentile is average (locally).

But people saying the 95th percentile is average are really not good at math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is it possible that 95%-tile actually ranks them below avg in APS???

No. not even close.

The 50th percentile is exactly the midpoint (actually median, not average, but the same in a bell curve distribution).

The score for the NNAT is for all kids everywhere who take the test. Many believe it's possible that the the average/median here in Nova is higher due to the above average incomes and education documented here. In fact, on the CoGat, there is a separate stacking for fairfax and you can compute easily that the mid-point is about 3.5-6 points higher than the entire pool in FFX (APS may differ slightly not not likely drastically)

It is somewhat reasonable therefore to say that the 55th percentile is average (locally).

But people saying the 95th percentile is average are really not good at math.

Think OP may just be exaggerating (perhaps humorously) to make a point. You are right that the curve likely shifts in the range you indicated. Our teacher did indicate to us that the in his/her guesstimate national curve was only off by small single digit in the local context. APS, unlike FPS does not report local percentiles.

[Anonymous]

is the Composite (VQN) Age Score the IQ score?