School Segregation and the Boundary Issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In McLean we have a lot of Asians in high performing schools along with whites. It isn't a racial thing it's a SES thing.

Asians never get included in any sort of affirmative action accounting. Neither do ethnic Jews. It is not perceived as a disadvantage as far as the government and powers-that-be are concerned. There are no racial quota set-asides for these groups.

(I am not making a value judgment, just stating a fact.) The presence of Indians, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and Ashkenazi Jews is considered an indicator of high SES and high levels of education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In McLean we have a lot of Asians in high performing schools along with whites. It isn't a racial thing it's a SES thing.

Asians never get included in any sort of affirmative action accounting. Neither do ethnic Jews. It is not perceived as a disadvantage as far as the government and powers-that-be are concerned. There are no racial quota set-asides for these groups.

(I am not making a value judgment, just stating a fact.) The presence of Indians, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and Ashkenazi Jews is considered an indicator of high SES and high levels of education.

A good perspective. I'm always amazed at the stories of immigrants, such as the Vietnamese boat people who arrived in this country with absolutely NOTHING, not even speaking the language. Many took menial jobs or became fishermen in places like Louisiana not known for their openness. Within a few years their some of their kids were going to great universities. Meanwhile, others yammer on about wanting "reparations", set asides and what is "owed" to them, 150 years after the emancipation proclamation and 50 years after the Civil Rights Act.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In McLean we have a lot of Asians in high performing schools along with whites. It isn't a racial thing it's a SES thing.

Asians never get included in any sort of affirmative action accounting. Neither do ethnic Jews. It is not perceived as a disadvantage as far as the government and powers-that-be are concerned. There are no racial quota set-asides for these groups.

(I am not making a value judgment, just stating a fact.) The presence of Indians, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and Ashkenazi Jews is considered an indicator of high SES and high levels of education.

BS that it's mainly "a SES thing." Low-income East Asian children and teens in public schools perform about the same as high SES whites in math nationwide. Look at the NAEP reports if you doubt this. Where are you getting your data? The issue isn't race, it's culture, namely Confucian ideals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

A good perspective. I'm always amazed at the stories of immigrants, such as the Vietnamese boat people who arrived in this country with absolutely NOTHING, not even speaking the language. Many took menial jobs or became fishermen in places like Louisiana not known for their openness. Within a few years their some of their kids were going to great universities. Meanwhile, others yammer on about wanting "reparations", set asides and what is "owed" to them, 150 years after the emancipation proclamation and 50 years after the Civil Rights Act.

I personally haven't come into contact with anyone who's been clamoring for reparations, but I take it that you feel like African-Americans in general need to step up and do for themselves instead of complaining that nothing is being done for them. The problem with this thinking is that common issue where people like to group all African-Americans together like they are one monolithic group. There are African-Americans throughout this city that are middle class and up, own homes, and have careers. My thinking is that most people would have no problem going to a school that's majority African-American if the vast majority of the children came from families like the Obamas.

With that being said, there is a segment of the African-American community that seem to stuck in poverty, and most of blame has to be put on them for the choices that were made in life. Most are from single parent households, and have not made the choice to pursue higher education as a way to achieve a higher socio-economic status. Unless these issues are addressed and an emphasis is placed on education, this segment of the African-American community will always be where they are.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real problem is income segregation. In DC it is all rich white people, all poor brown/black people. It's not like that everywhere. I think here we correlate success to race, but instead it's really success to SES.

DC also has plenty of well-educated, high SES black folks. For some reason, they tend to get left out of the conversation frequently.

Shhh, they still think it is 1952 and it really is hard to educate miseducated people on DCUM. So, let them continue to believe that all the Black folks in DC are poor. It helps them to feel better about themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real problem is income segregation. In DC it is all rich white people, all poor brown/black people. It's not like that everywhere. I think here we correlate success to race, but instead it's really success to SES.

DC also has plenty of well-educated, high SES black folks. For some reason, they tend to get left out of the conversation frequently.

Not sure about this, percentage-wise. We are a black PhD/MD couple living in Shepherd Park, where there are lots of this ilk here. However, many of our neighbors put their kids in privates, so not sure how well this demographic is represented in public schools? It may well be that public schools are more split along white & affluent vs. black/Latino & poor lines--I don't have the statistic in front of me though.

We are a JD/MBA Black family living in Woodridge/Brookland area. You cannot possilbly think that your three block radius is totally representative of the Black middle/upper class families in this city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think services follow white children in DC. They dont need them and the extras are (in my opinion correctly) directed elsewhere. Look at all the shiny new under-enrolled schools and per pupil spending outide of ward 3.

Extras at w3 schools come from parents not the city.

What hit me was the studies of what was available at the middle school level between schools East of the River and at Deal. They are huge. I have had children attend a 90% minority/ 70% Farm school and one that is 50% minority/20 % farm. What was available at each school was huge. The extras that go to poor schools are an extra school pychologist or new coats and backpacks. It is not the extra computer lab or IPADs or robotics programs. You cannot even imagine unless you have lived it the difference. I don't know that I would have believed how different the benefits are withou the experience

As to the point that parents provide the benefits you are right, and then they use it as a tax break. Well off parents use real estate prices to segregate SES, they use their money to provide extras and then use both of those factors to decrease the general taxation they would have paid to help the general treasury that might have helped poorer kids.

What,, do you think that DC taxes are too low? Do you have any idea what many people in this town pay in income, property, sales and other fees to Dysfunctional City? That DC, all-in, is one of the most high taxed jurisdictions in the whole country? That DCPS already spends per pupil a lot of money? That people watch as their taxes are spent on things like multi-million dollar sweetheart contracts to people like Jeffrey Thompson? Or stolen outright by council members like Harry Thomas? Or wasted like Vincent Orange's $350K party fund for an emancipation day concert the other day? People contribute and, yes, volunteer many hours to raise money for their kids' schools because despite all the tax money, DCPS has been unable regularly to fund things like enrichment programs, science teachers, music teachers, full-time liibrarians and, until recently, even playgrounds.

The problem in DCPS is not money. It is how it is spent and other management issues. It is too much of a focus on feel-good goals like diversity, esteem and egalitarianism, rather than on making rigorous, quality schools in every neighborhood of our city.

These are red herrings. If you have lived in any other major city you would know that corruption runs deep in politics. The only difference is that DC has the WAPO and DC is heavily monitored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The kids have to want the clubs, and participate in them. And the teachers have to support it.

+1. Deal and Wilson do more with less resources per pupil than other schools. Perhaps we should all learn and replicate and make best use of resources, instead of complaining.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids have to want the clubs, and participate in them. And the teachers have to support it.

+1. Deal and Wilson do more with less resources per pupil than other schools. Perhaps we should all learn and replicate and make best use of resources, instead of complaining.

Deal does a great job of making the most of its resources. I don't deny that (I have no first-hand knowledge of Wilson). But, you can't ignore that it has the advantages a large student body which is favored by the per-pupil funding mechanism, high-SES population which results in significant PTA funding, and a relative low special needs population.

Also, I highly doubt that Dea and Wilson got where they are without complaints being made, repeatedly.

[Anonymous]

These are red herrings. If you have lived in any other major city you would know that corruption runs deep in politics. The only difference is that DC has the WAPO and DC is heavily monitored.

We really need a "laughing our loud" icon, but I'll agree DC is no worse than most other large cities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think services follow white children in DC. They dont need them and the extras are (in my opinion correctly) directed elsewhere. Look at all the shiny new under-enrolled schools and per pupil spending outide of ward 3.

Extras at w3 schools come from parents not the city.

What hit me was the studies of what was available at the middle school level between schools East of the River and at Deal. They are huge. I have had children attend a 90% minority/ 70% Farm school and one that is 50% minority/20 % farm. What was available at each school was huge. The extras that go to poor schools are an extra school pychologist or new coats and backpacks. It is not the extra computer lab or IPADs or robotics programs. You cannot even imagine unless you have lived it the difference. I don't know that I would have believed how different the benefits are withou the experience

As to the point that parents provide the benefits you are right, and then they use it as a tax break. Well off parents use real estate prices to segregate SES, they use their money to provide extras and then use both of those factors to decrease the general taxation they would have paid to help the general treasury that might have helped poorer kids.

What,, do you think that DC taxes are too low? Do you have any idea what many people in this town pay in income, property, sales and other fees to Dysfunctional City? That DC, all-in, is one of the most high taxed jurisdictions in the whole country? That DCPS already spends per pupil a lot of money? That people watch as their taxes are spent on things like multi-million dollar sweetheart contracts to people like Jeffrey Thompson? Or stolen outright by council members like Harry Thomas? Or wasted like Vincent Orange's $350K party fund for an emancipation day concert the other day? People contribute and, yes, volunteer many hours to raise money for their kids' schools because despite all the tax money, DCPS has been unable regularly to fund things like enrichment programs, science teachers, music teachers, full-time liibrarians and, until recently, even playgrounds.

The problem in DCPS is not money. It is how it is spent and other management issues. It is too much of a focus on feel-good goals like diversity, esteem and egalitarianism, rather than on making rigorous, quality schools in every neighborhood of our city.

These are red herrings. If you have lived in any other major city you would know that corruption runs deep in politics. The only difference is that DC has the WAPO and DC is heavily monitored.

No way. I've lived in Boston, NYC and Chicago and DC wins the corruption contest, hands down.

[Anonymous]

No way. I've lived in Boston, NYC and Chicago and DC wins the corruption contest, hands down.

14:49 here - another great example of why we need the LOL icon - these are the last three cities in America I would choose to try and demonstrate relative corruption in DC. Good Grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No way. I've lived in Boston, NYC and Chicago and DC wins the corruption contest, hands down.

14:49 here - another great example of why we need the LOL icon - these are the last three cities in America I would choose to try and demonstrate relative corruption in DC. Good Grief.

Vince, you need to get off dcum and work on fabricating a believable defense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In McLean we have a lot of Asians in high performing schools along with whites. It isn't a racial thing it's a SES thing.

Asians never get included in any sort of affirmative action accounting. Neither do ethnic Jews. It is not perceived as a disadvantage as far as the government and powers-that-be are concerned. There are no racial quota set-asides for these groups.

(I am not making a value judgment, just stating a fact.) The presence of Indians, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and Ashkenazi Jews is considered an indicator of high SES and high levels of education.

A good perspective. I'm always amazed at the stories of immigrants, such as the Vietnamese boat people who arrived in this country with absolutely NOTHING, not even speaking the language. Many took menial jobs or became fishermen in places like Louisiana not known for their openness. Within a few years their some of their kids were going to great universities. Meanwhile, others yammer on about wanting "reparations", set asides and what is "owed" to them, 150 years after the emancipation proclamation and 50 years after the Civil Rights Act.

You do realize though that many Vietnamese boat people came from highly educated backgrounds? The communists tended to persecute the upper classes and well educated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In McLean we have a lot of Asians in high performing schools along with whites. It isn't a racial thing it's a SES thing.

Asians never get included in any sort of affirmative action accounting. Neither do ethnic Jews. It is not perceived as a disadvantage as far as the government and powers-that-be are concerned. There are no racial quota set-asides for these groups.

(I am not making a value judgment, just stating a fact.) The presence of Indians, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, and Ashkenazi Jews is considered an indicator of high SES and high levels of education.

BS that it's mainly "a SES thing." Low-income East Asian children and teens in public schools perform about the same as high SES whites in math nationwide. Look at the NAEP reports if you doubt this. Where are you getting your data? The issue isn't race, it's culture, namely Confucian ideals.

I don't know any Confucian Ashkenzi Jews, but Washington can be a small town in some ways...