School Segregation and the Boundary Issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think services follow white children in DC. They dont need them and the extras are (in my opinion correctly) directed elsewhere. Look at all the shiny new under-enrolled schools and per pupil spending outide of ward 3.

Extras at w3 schools come from parents not the city.

What hit me was the studies of what was available at the middle school level between schools East of the River and at Deal. They are huge. I have had children attend a 90% minority/ 70% Farm school and one that is 50% minority/20 % farm. What was available at each school was huge. The extras that go to poor schools are an extra school pychologist or new coats and backpacks. It is not the extra computer lab or IPADs or robotics programs. You cannot even imagine unless you have lived it the difference. I don't know that I would have believed how different the benefits are withou the experience

As to the point that parents provide the benefits you are right, and then they use it as a tax break. Well off parents use real estate prices to segregate SES, they use their money to provide extras and then use both of those factors to decrease the general taxation they would have paid to help the general treasury that might have helped poorer kids.

What,, do you think that DC taxes are too low? Do you have any idea what many people in this town pay in income, property, sales and other fees to Dysfunctional City? That DC, all-in, is one of the most high taxed jurisdictions in the whole country? That DCPS already spends per pupil a lot of money? That people watch as their taxes are spent on things like multi-million dollar sweetheart contracts to people like Jeffrey Thompson? Or stolen outright by council members like Harry Thomas? Or wasted like Vincent Orange's $350K party fund for an emancipation day concert the other day? People contribute and, yes, volunteer many hours to raise money for their kids' schools because despite all the tax money, DCPS has been unable regularly to fund things like enrichment programs, science teachers, music teachers, full-time liibrarians and, until recently, even playgrounds.

The problem in DCPS is not money. It is how it is spent and other management issues. It is too much of a focus on feel-good goals like diversity, esteem and egalitarianism, rather than on making rigorous, quality schools in every neighborhood of our city.

These are red herrings. If you have lived in any other major city you would know that corruption runs deep in politics. The only difference is that DC has the WAPO and DC is heavily monitored.

No way. I've lived in Boston, NYC and Chicago and DC wins the corruption contest, hands down.

Not against Chicago. Wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A good perspective. I'm always amazed at the stories of immigrants, such as the Vietnamese boat people who arrived in this country with absolutely NOTHING, not even speaking the language. Many took menial jobs or became fishermen in places like Louisiana not known for their openness. Within a few years their some of their kids were going to great universities. Meanwhile, others yammer on about wanting "reparations", set asides and what is "owed" to them, 150 years after the emancipation proclamation and 50 years after the Civil Rights Act.

I personally haven't come into contact with anyone who's been clamoring for reparations, but I take it that you feel like African-Americans in general need to step up and do for themselves instead of complaining that nothing is being done for them. The problem with this thinking is that common issue where people like to group all African-Americans together like they are one monolithic group. There are African-Americans throughout this city that are middle class and up, own homes, and have careers. My thinking is that most people would have no problem going to a school that's majority African-American if the vast majority of the children came from families like the Obamas.

With that being said, there is a segment of the African-American community that seem to stuck in poverty, and most of blame has to be put on them for the choices that were made in life. Most are from single parent households, and have not made the choice to pursue higher education as a way to achieve a higher socio-economic status. Unless these issues are addressed and an emphasis is placed on education, this segment of the African-American community will always be where they are.

White wotp poster here who is appalled at the "150 years after emancipation proclamation" posters comments. Slavery decimated the social structure, family groups, self-esteem, and mental and physical well-being of a huge proportion of the African American population. It takes more than a handful of generations to overcome such complete evisceration. The crack epidemic didn't help either. Neither does jailing young men who would walk free if they were white. Yes we all have choices to make about how to live our lives. But if you've never experienced anything else, and everywhere you turn someone is waiting for you to act out, it doesn't give you much hope or ability to strive for something better. Low SES schools in this city need to provide those mentors and that hope. They need to demonstrate not just how to divide fractions, but also how to navigate a complex pathway toward college and stable home lives. Is that all on schools? No. But they are where the majority of kids' time is spent outside the home and they have a legally-binding mandate to teach so they are logical places to provide that extra mentoring. This requires a LOT of extra funding and supports. And it benefits our society as a whole. So, PP, though you may have been given, or encountered, the tools to pull yourself up, not everyone has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A good perspective. I'm always amazed at the stories of immigrants, such as the Vietnamese boat people who arrived in this country with absolutely NOTHING, not even speaking the language. Many took menial jobs or became fishermen in places like Louisiana not known for their openness. Within a few years their some of their kids were going to great universities. Meanwhile, others yammer on about wanting "reparations", set asides and what is "owed" to them, 150 years after the emancipation proclamation and 50 years after the Civil Rights Act.

I personally haven't come into contact with anyone who's been clamoring for reparations, but I take it that you feel like African-Americans in general need to step up and do for themselves instead of complaining that nothing is being done for them. The problem with this thinking is that common issue where people like to group all African-Americans together like they are one monolithic group. There are African-Americans throughout this city that are middle class and up, own homes, and have careers. My thinking is that most people would have no problem going to a school that's majority African-American if the vast majority of the children came from families like the Obamas.

With that being said, there is a segment of the African-American community that seem to stuck in poverty, and most of blame has to be put on them for the choices that were made in life. Most are from single parent households, and have not made the choice to pursue higher education as a way to achieve a higher socio-economic status. Unless these issues are addressed and an emphasis is placed on education, this segment of the African-American community will always be where they are.

White wotp poster here who is appalled at the "150 years after emancipation proclamation" posters comments. Slavery decimated the social structure, family groups, self-esteem, and mental and physical well-being of a huge proportion of the African American population. It takes more than a handful of generations to overcome such complete evisceration. The crack epidemic didn't help either. Neither does jailing young men who would walk free if they were white. Yes we all have choices to make about how to live our lives. But if you've never experienced anything else, and everywhere you turn someone is waiting for you to act out, it doesn't give you much hope or ability to strive for something better. Low SES schools in this city need to provide those mentors and that hope. They need to demonstrate not just how to divide fractions, but also how to navigate a complex pathway toward college and stable home lives. Is that all on schools? No. But they are where the majority of kids' time is spent outside the home and they have a legally-binding mandate to teach so they are logical places to provide that extra mentoring. This requires a LOT of extra funding and supports. And it benefits our society as a whole. So, PP, though you may have been given, or encountered, the tools to pull yourself up, not everyone has.

I'm not sure exactly where the PP was coming from, but she would hardly be the first AA to express indignation about younger generations. Every community does this, it's not just an AA thing. Some people take pride in the cohesive nature of AA extended families, and are legitimately dismayed at how the backbone the community has changed. Not everyone is simply accepting of single motherhood being the new normal.

[Anonymous]

P.S. I should point out that I also am strongly in favor of neighborhood schools. It's a quality of life issue to be close to home and helps underpin neighborhood cohesion. There are other ways for integration to happen that don't involve sending children on hour-long commutes twice a day. This is an adult problem that affects children. Let's not send them in to fix it. Higher and lower SES schools could be paired into sister schools by DCPS. There could be regular times to visit each other and for both sets of students and teachers to interact. Of course this doesn't by itself fix failing schools. That is a separate issue that MUST be addressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think services follow white children in DC. They dont need them and the extras are (in my opinion correctly) directed elsewhere. Look at all the shiny new under-enrolled schools and per pupil spending outide of ward 3.

Extras at w3 schools come from parents not the city.

What hit me was the studies of what was available at the middle school level between schools East of the River and at Deal. They are huge. I have had children attend a 90% minority/ 70% Farm school and one that is 50% minority/20 % farm. What was available at each school was huge. The extras that go to poor schools are an extra school pychologist or new coats and backpacks. It is not the extra computer lab or IPADs or robotics programs. You cannot even imagine unless you have lived it the difference. I don't know that I would have believed how different the benefits are withou the experience

As to the point that parents provide the benefits you are right, and then they use it as a tax break. Well off parents use real estate prices to segregate SES, they use their money to provide extras and then use both of those factors to decrease the general taxation they would have paid to help the general treasury that might have helped poorer kids.

I thought school taxes came primarily from real estate? In any event, the parent who gives $1000 to their local PTA is only saving $100 in income taxes on a local level; it's not an amount which will make or brak the system. Meanwhile, that parent in the 1.2 million home in Woodley is putting a lot more taxes into the system than the parent in the 200k unit in SE

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A good perspective. I'm always amazed at the stories of immigrants, such as the Vietnamese boat people who arrived in this country with absolutely NOTHING, not even speaking the language. Many took menial jobs or became fishermen in places like Louisiana not known for their openness. Within a few years their some of their kids were going to great universities. Meanwhile, others yammer on about wanting "reparations", set asides and what is "owed" to them, 150 years after the emancipation proclamation and 50 years after the Civil Rights Act.

I personally haven't come into contact with anyone who's been clamoring for reparations, but I take it that you feel like African-Americans in general need to step up and do for themselves instead of complaining that nothing is being done for them. The problem with this thinking is that common issue where people like to group all African-Americans together like they are one monolithic group. There are African-Americans throughout this city that are middle class and up, own homes, and have careers. My thinking is that most people would have no problem going to a school that's majority African-American if the vast majority of the children came from families like the Obamas.

With that being said, there is a segment of the African-American community that seem to stuck in poverty, and most of blame has to be put on them for the choices that were made in life. Most are from single parent households, and have not made the choice to pursue higher education as a way to achieve a higher socio-economic status. Unless these issues are addressed and an emphasis is placed on education, this segment of the African-American community will always be where they are.

White wotp poster here who is appalled at the "150 years after emancipation proclamation" posters comments. Slavery decimated the social structure, family groups, self-esteem, and mental and physical well-being of a huge proportion of the African American population. It takes more than a handful of generations to overcome such complete evisceration. The crack epidemic didn't help either. Neither does jailing young men who would walk free if they were white. Yes we all have choices to make about how to live our lives. But if you've never experienced anything else, and everywhere you turn someone is waiting for you to act out, it doesn't give you much hope or ability to strive for something better. Low SES schools in this city need to provide those mentors and that hope. They need to demonstrate not just how to divide fractions, but also how to navigate a complex pathway toward college and stable home lives. Is that all on schools? No. But they are where the majority of kids' time is spent outside the home and they have a legally-binding mandate to teach so they are logical places to provide that extra mentoring. This requires a LOT of extra funding and supports. And it benefits our society as a whole. So, PP, though you may have been given, or encountered, the tools to pull yourself up, not everyone has.

+1 to all of this. Perhaps the pp's should try a history, sociology or psychology class before going on such rants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think services follow white children in DC. They dont need them and the extras are (in my opinion correctly) directed elsewhere. Look at all the shiny new under-enrolled schools and per pupil spending outide of ward 3.

Extras at w3 schools come from parents not the city.

What hit me was the studies of what was available at the middle school level between schools East of the River and at Deal. They are huge. I have had children attend a 90% minority/ 70% Farm school and one that is 50% minority/20 % farm. What was available at each school was huge. The extras that go to poor schools are an extra school pychologist or new coats and backpacks. It is not the extra computer lab or IPADs or robotics programs. You cannot even imagine unless you have lived it the difference. I don't know that I would have believed how different the benefits are withou the experience

As to the point that parents provide the benefits you are right, and then they use it as a tax break. Well off parents use real estate prices to segregate SES, they use their money to provide extras and then use both of those factors to decrease the general taxation they would have paid to help the general treasury that might have helped poorer kids.

What,, do you think that DC taxes are too low? Do you have any idea what many people in this town pay in income, property, sales and other fees to Dysfunctional City? That DC, all-in, is one of the most high taxed jurisdictions in the whole country? That DCPS already spends per pupil a lot of money? That people watch as their taxes are spent on things like multi-million dollar sweetheart contracts to people like Jeffrey Thompson? Or stolen outright by council members like Harry Thomas? Or wasted like Vincent Orange's $350K party fund for an emancipation day concert the other day? People contribute and, yes, volunteer many hours to raise money for their kids' schools because despite all the tax money, DCPS has been unable regularly to fund things like enrichment programs, science teachers, music teachers, full-time liibrarians and, until recently, even playgrounds.

The problem in DCPS is not money. It is how it is spent and other management issues. It is too much of a focus on feel-good goals like diversity, esteem and egalitarianism, rather than on making rigorous, quality schools in every neighborhood of our city.

These are red herrings. If you have lived in any other major city you would know that corruption runs deep in politics. The only difference is that DC has the WAPO and DC is heavily monitored.

Hardly red herrings. DC is known far and wide for the breadth and depth of its klepto-crony-political culture. When you consider the number of senor elected officiials (including the mayor, a former council chairman, two councilmemembers) who have pleaded guility or are under active investigation, it's appalling even by Loiusiana standards. DC is awash in tax revenue. It's just a question or spending it legitimately and not wasting it or worse, rewarding one's political cronies with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No way. I've lived in Boston, NYC and Chicago and DC wins the corruption contest, hands down.

14:49 here - another great example of why we need the LOL icon - these are the last three cities in America I would choose to try and demonstrate relative corruption in DC. Good Grief.

Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real problem is income segregation. In DC it is all rich white people, all poor brown/black people. It's not like that everywhere. I think here we correlate success to race, but instead it's really success to SES.

DC also has plenty of well-educated, high SES black folks. For some reason, they tend to get left out of the conversation frequently.

Not sure about this, percentage-wise. We are a black PhD/MD couple living in Shepherd Park, where there are lots of this ilk here. However, many of our neighbors put their kids in privates, so not sure how well this demographic is represented in public schools? It may well be that public schools are more split along white & affluent vs. black/Latino & poor lines--I don't have the statistic in front of me though.

We are a JD/MBA Black family living in Woodridge/Brookland area. You cannot possilbly think that your three block radius is totally representative of the Black middle/upper class families in this city.

I hope the Pp doesn't. We are are high GS scale federal government family living in Brightwood. There are several us in this neighborhood. Many have older kids, but it's a working class neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real problem is income segregation. In DC it is all rich white people, all poor brown/black people. It's not like that everywhere. I think here we correlate success to race, but instead it's really success to SES.

DC also has plenty of well-educated, high SES black folks. For some reason, they tend to get left out of the conversation frequently.

I was just thinking the same thing. We actually have a much larger middle class African-American population than many other cities.

+1. We are high HHI black family in Shepherd Park. Unfortunately, many high HHI blacks do go private. It is sad to see so many white WOTP residents fight tooth and nail to get us booted from Deal so Deal would become 100% white.

That's not the reason they want you booted. They want you booted so THEY don't get booted. It's a zero sum game to them - some people will have to leave Deal, I don't want to leave Deal, so they (you) should leave Deal.

[Anonymous]

And I'd suggest no one at Deal wants you to leave because of your skin color; it's because you're zoned for a different school on the other side of town. If you lived in the Deal zone, you'd be welcomed with open arms (and probably would be complaining about those students from other neighborhoods crowding your school).

Btw, hi neighbor!, from a Takoma resident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think services follow white children in DC. They dont need them and the extras are (in my opinion correctly) directed elsewhere. Look at all the shiny new under-enrolled schools and per pupil spending outide of ward 3.

Extras at w3 schools come from parents not the city.

What hit me was the studies of what was available at the middle school level between schools East of the River and at Deal. They are huge. I have had children attend a 90% minority/ 70% Farm school and one that is 50% minority/20 % farm. What was available at each school was huge. The extras that go to poor schools are an extra school pychologist or new coats and backpacks. It is not the extra computer lab or IPADs or robotics programs. You cannot even imagine unless you have lived it the difference. I don't know that I would have believed how different the benefits are withou the experience

As to the point that parents provide the benefits you are right, and then they use it as a tax break. Well off parents use real estate prices to segregate SES, they use their money to provide extras and then use both of those factors to decrease the general taxation they would have paid to help the general treasury that might have helped poorer kids.

What,, do you think that DC taxes are too low? Do you have any idea what many people in this town pay in income, property, sales and other fees to Dysfunctional City? That DC, all-in, is one of the most high taxed jurisdictions in the whole country? That DCPS already spends per pupil a lot of money? That people watch as their taxes are spent on things like multi-million dollar sweetheart contracts to people like Jeffrey Thompson? Or stolen outright by council members like Harry Thomas? Or wasted like Vincent Orange's $350K party fund for an emancipation day concert the other day? People contribute and, yes, volunteer many hours to raise money for their kids' schools because despite all the tax money, DCPS has been unable regularly to fund things like enrichment programs, science teachers, music teachers, full-time liibrarians and, until recently, even playgrounds.

The problem in DCPS is not money. It is how it is spent and other management issues. It is too much of a focus on feel-good goals like diversity, esteem and egalitarianism, rather than on making rigorous, quality schools in every neighborhood of our city.

These are red herrings. If you have lived in any other major city you would know that corruption runs deep in politics. The only difference is that DC has the WAPO and DC is heavily monitored.

Hardly red herrings. DC is known far and wide for the breadth and depth of its klepto-crony-political culture. When you consider the number of senor elected officiials (including the mayor, a former council chairman, two councilmemembers) who have pleaded guility or are under active investigation, it's appalling even by Loiusiana standards. DC is awash in tax revenue. It's just a question or spending it legitimately and not wasting it or worse, rewarding one's political cronies with it.

You refuted your own statement. DC pols like Brown and Thomas were so amateurish that they actually got caught. In machine cities and counties the crooks are professional (I.e. Alaska, Chicago, Louisiana) and rarely if ever go to jail.

[Anonymous]

Shepherd Park is zoned for Deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shepherd Park is zoned for Deal.

Then what the heck are you whining about?!? No one's trying to get you booted from Deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shepherd Park is zoned for Deal.

Then what the heck are you whining about?!? No one's trying to get you booted from Deal.

I'm the PP, but different from whomever you're addressing. There has definitely been support for cutting Shepherd Park out of the Deal Boundary. Oddly (or not) the reaction to cutting Oyster - geographically a lot further than Shepherd - was exactly the opposite.