Silver Spring's Eastern Middle School gets slammed for rewarding good students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One approach could be to reward based on group accomplishment. So let's take the party idea. Tell the kids that the class has to reach Goal X in order to have a party. Let's say Goal X is a math test. One group of kids in the class has aced the material; another has not. Break the kids in groups and have the kids who have aced it try to explain the material and assist the kids who have not. The kids for whom the material comes easily are challenged because it is one thing to solve a problem; it is quite another to explain to another person how to solve a problem. It challenges those kids to be leaders. It also helps the kids who are struggling by giving them one on one attention. And often a kid will learn more from a peer than from the teacher, because a kid will explain something in terms another kid will more easily understand. It also teaches the kids to cooperate, because the reward depends on cooperation.

It amazes me when parents complain that their advanced kid isn't challenged if he/she is with not-so-advanced kids. Because there are actually ways to challenge the advanced kids. And it isn't by just surrounding them with other advanced kids.

I tutored when I was in school, and honestly, the material I tutored is the material that, to this day, I know the best. It was a challenge communicating concepts so that someone else could understand. It also taught me valuable skills that I have certainly used as an adult. And it also fostered in me an inclination to understand people instead of dismiss them.

This is just one suggestion of how a reward, such as a party, could be used in a school or a classroom.

But it has to be a combination of group work and individual achievement. Group work where just one product is submitted often results in one or two kids doing all of the work. But a system whereby all kids will have to do an independent assessment but the incentive for all is for the class as a whole to do well gets around that problem.

No. I'm sorry, but as the parent of a gifted child, I have to draw the line at employing my child to do the teacher's job. My child is at school to do her own work and learn for herself. If DC wants to volunteer after school as a tutor, then that's fine. But, during the school day, my child's job is to learn something new for him/herself. NOT spend time teaching someone else.

If that sounds harsh, you have to understand that gifted children are frequently put in this position from very early grades. They are assigned to "help" other kids read, to explain their answers to other kids or to "show" what they can do. This means that the time they have at school to learn something new is spent reviewing something they already know with someone else. Maybe you felt this gave YOU a deeper understanding, but this is not true for everyone. In addition, this puts them in a very difficult position socially in the class. They also are often not qualified for it. My gifted child read at a 6th grade level in Kindergarten, but had NO IDEA how to teach another child to read.

+1M

I agree completely. In kindergarten and first grade, my DS' "reading group" was helping other kids read simple books. It was a disservice to the other kids and to him.

You all have a very limited understanding of how a gifted child can be challenged.

First of all, it does challenge a gifted child to articulate how they understand things. It challenges them a great deal. Real learning, enrichment isn't just a constant barrage of new facts. It's learning to communicate a deeper understanding of material. It's learning about audience and how to break things down. And believe me, it does more to prepare children for success in adulthood than most anything else, unless you plan for little gifted Johnny to live in a gated community and never interact with the rest of the world.

And if you think that puts them in a difficult position socially but throwing a party for only them (or doing any public acknowledgement of their success) doesn't, then you are mistaken.

And if your gifted child read at a 6th grade level in kindergarten but didn't know how to teach someone else, then learning to teach someone else IS a NEW skill/thing. It amazes me that you can't recognize that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One approach could be to reward based on group accomplishment. So let's take the party idea. Tell the kids that the class has to reach Goal X in order to have a party. Let's say Goal X is a math test. One group of kids in the class has aced the material; another has not. Break the kids in groups and have the kids who have aced it try to explain the material and assist the kids who have not. The kids for whom the material comes easily are challenged because it is one thing to solve a problem; it is quite another to explain to another person how to solve a problem. It challenges those kids to be leaders. It also helps the kids who are struggling by giving them one on one attention. And often a kid will learn more from a peer than from the teacher, because a kid will explain something in terms another kid will more easily understand. It also teaches the kids to cooperate, because the reward depends on cooperation.

It amazes me when parents complain that their advanced kid isn't challenged if he/she is with not-so-advanced kids. Because there are actually ways to challenge the advanced kids. And it isn't by just surrounding them with other advanced kids.

I tutored when I was in school, and honestly, the material I tutored is the material that, to this day, I know the best. It was a challenge communicating concepts so that someone else could understand. It also taught me valuable skills that I have certainly used as an adult. And it also fostered in me an inclination to understand people instead of dismiss them.

This is just one suggestion of how a reward, such as a party, could be used in a school or a classroom.

But it has to be a combination of group work and individual achievement. Group work where just one product is submitted often results in one or two kids doing all of the work. But a system whereby all kids will have to do an independent assessment but the incentive for all is for the class as a whole to do well gets around that problem.

No. I'm sorry, but as the parent of a gifted child, I have to draw the line at employing my child to do the teacher's job. My child is at school to do her own work and learn for herself. If DC wants to volunteer after school as a tutor, then that's fine. But, during the school day, my child's job is to learn something new for him/herself. NOT spend time teaching someone else.

If that sounds harsh, you have to understand that gifted children are frequently put in this position from very early grades. They are assigned to "help" other kids read, to explain their answers to other kids or to "show" what they can do. This means that the time they have at school to learn something new is spent reviewing something they already know with someone else. Maybe you felt this gave YOU a deeper understanding, but this is not true for everyone. In addition, this puts them in a very difficult position socially in the class. They also are often not qualified for it. My gifted child read at a 6th grade level in Kindergarten, but had NO IDEA how to teach another child to read.

+1M

I agree completely. In kindergarten and first grade, my DS' "reading group" was helping other kids read simple books. It was a disservice to the other kids and to him.

You all have a very limited understanding of how a gifted child can be challenged.

First of all, it does challenge a gifted child to articulate how they understand things. It challenges them a great deal. Real learning, enrichment isn't just a constant barrage of new facts. It's learning to communicate a deeper understanding of material. It's learning about audience and how to break things down. And believe me, it does more to prepare children for success in adulthood than most anything else, unless you plan for little gifted Johnny to live in a gated community and never interact with the rest of the world.

And if you think that puts them in a difficult position socially but throwing a party for only them (or doing any public acknowledgement of their success) doesn't, then you are mistaken.

And if your gifted child read at a 6th grade level in kindergarten but didn't know how to teach someone else, then learning to teach someone else IS a NEW skill/thing. It amazes me that you can't recognize that.

It is you who does not understand.

I teach in a HGC. I did my thesis on gifted education. I attend conferences on gifted education and teach highly gifted children every day.

Giving gifted children the task of helping other children who are not their intellectual peers learn is inappropriate and does not serve their educational needs. It is a convenience to the teacher, nothing more.

Your reference to "gifted Johnny" and the gated community tells us everything we need to know about your attitude towards this population of children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One approach could be to reward based on group accomplishment. So let's take the party idea. Tell the kids that the class has to reach Goal X in order to have a party. Let's say Goal X is a math test. One group of kids in the class has aced the material; another has not. Break the kids in groups and have the kids who have aced it try to explain the material and assist the kids who have not. The kids for whom the material comes easily are challenged because it is one thing to solve a problem; it is quite another to explain to another person how to solve a problem. It challenges those kids to be leaders. It also helps the kids who are struggling by giving them one on one attention. And often a kid will learn more from a peer than from the teacher, because a kid will explain something in terms another kid will more easily understand. It also teaches the kids to cooperate, because the reward depends on cooperation.

It amazes me when parents complain that their advanced kid isn't challenged if he/she is with not-so-advanced kids. Because there are actually ways to challenge the advanced kids. And it isn't by just surrounding them with other advanced kids.

I tutored when I was in school, and honestly, the material I tutored is the material that, to this day, I know the best. It was a challenge communicating concepts so that someone else could understand. It also taught me valuable skills that I have certainly used as an adult. And it also fostered in me an inclination to understand people instead of dismiss them.

This is just one suggestion of how a reward, such as a party, could be used in a school or a classroom.

But it has to be a combination of group work and individual achievement. Group work where just one product is submitted often results in one or two kids doing all of the work. But a system whereby all kids will have to do an independent assessment but the incentive for all is for the class as a whole to do well gets around that problem.

No. I'm sorry, but as the parent of a gifted child, I have to draw the line at employing my child to do the teacher's job. My child is at school to do her own work and learn for herself. If DC wants to volunteer after school as a tutor, then that's fine. But, during the school day, my child's job is to learn something new for him/herself. NOT spend time teaching someone else.

If that sounds harsh, you have to understand that gifted children are frequently put in this position from very early grades. They are assigned to "help" other kids read, to explain their answers to other kids or to "show" what they can do. This means that the time they have at school to learn something new is spent reviewing something they already know with someone else. Maybe you felt this gave YOU a deeper understanding, but this is not true for everyone. In addition, this puts them in a very difficult position socially in the class. They also are often not qualified for it. My gifted child read at a 6th grade level in Kindergarten, but had NO IDEA how to teach another child to read.

+1M

I agree completely. In kindergarten and first grade, my DS' "reading group" was helping other kids read simple books. It was a disservice to the other kids and to him.

You all have a very limited understanding of how a gifted child can be challenged.

First of all, it does challenge a gifted child to articulate how they understand things. It challenges them a great deal. Real learning, enrichment isn't just a constant barrage of new facts. It's learning to communicate a deeper understanding of material. It's learning about audience and how to break things down. And believe me, it does more to prepare children for success in adulthood than most anything else, unless you plan for little gifted Johnny to live in a gated community and never interact with the rest of the world.

And if you think that puts them in a difficult position socially but throwing a party for only them (or doing any public acknowledgement of their success) doesn't, then you are mistaken.

And if your gifted child read at a 6th grade level in kindergarten but didn't know how to teach someone else, then learning to teach someone else IS a NEW skill/thing. It amazes me that you can't recognize that.

This is just not true. And I understand the concept -- my kids were both in Montessori ages 2 - 5.

My DS read at a high school level in kindergarten. I know you will roll your eyes but it is true. He was thirsty for something to actually learn in early ES. Sure, teaching someone else is a new skill but it doesn't substitute for a yearning to be challenged in and interested in school. He LONGED for textbooks. he was frustrated and angry that he had to sit around and talk about the Little Red Hen -- not a lot of deeper understanding of material right there.

And something you seem to not understand about gifted kids -- they are intellectually advanced but often emotionally/socially at the level of their peers. So to expect a kid in K or firts to have the patience to be a teacher is frequently unrealistic. Plus, there was social issue to all of it -- other kids didn't necessarily want to be taught by a peer, and this can create bullying/teasing situations. Finally, you are assuming that teachers have the skills to successfully oversee multiple reading groups and 25 kids in a classroom and help a bored, unchallenged and frustrated six year old learn how to patiently and productively teach his peers.

Kids have a right to learn in every grade. And not learn an ancillary skill like how to teach others, but to expand their own knowledge and stretch their skills. It wasn't until 4th grade at an HCG that my child received this, and he did get a lot of bullying and teasing from other kids along the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One approach could be to reward based on group accomplishment. So let's take the party idea. Tell the kids that the class has to reach Goal X in order to have a party. Let's say Goal X is a math test. One group of kids in the class has aced the material; another has not. Break the kids in groups and have the kids who have aced it try to explain the material and assist the kids who have not. The kids for whom the material comes easily are challenged because it is one thing to solve a problem; it is quite another to explain to another person how to solve a problem. It challenges those kids to be leaders. It also helps the kids who are struggling by giving them one on one attention. And often a kid will learn more from a peer than from the teacher, because a kid will explain something in terms another kid will more easily understand. It also teaches the kids to cooperate, because the reward depends on cooperation.

It amazes me when parents complain that their advanced kid isn't challenged if he/she is with not-so-advanced kids. Because there are actually ways to challenge the advanced kids. And it isn't by just surrounding them with other advanced kids.

I tutored when I was in school, and honestly, the material I tutored is the material that, to this day, I know the best. It was a challenge communicating concepts so that someone else could understand. It also taught me valuable skills that I have certainly used as an adult. And it also fostered in me an inclination to understand people instead of dismiss them.

This is just one suggestion of how a reward, such as a party, could be used in a school or a classroom.

But it has to be a combination of group work and individual achievement. Group work where just one product is submitted often results in one or two kids doing all of the work. But a system whereby all kids will have to do an independent assessment but the incentive for all is for the class as a whole to do well gets around that problem.

No. I'm sorry, but as the parent of a gifted child, I have to draw the line at employing my child to do the teacher's job. My child is at school to do her own work and learn for herself. If DC wants to volunteer after school as a tutor, then that's fine. But, during the school day, my child's job is to learn something new for him/herself. NOT spend time teaching someone else.

If that sounds harsh, you have to understand that gifted children are frequently put in this position from very early grades. They are assigned to "help" other kids read, to explain their answers to other kids or to "show" what they can do. This means that the time they have at school to learn something new is spent reviewing something they already know with someone else. Maybe you felt this gave YOU a deeper understanding, but this is not true for everyone. In addition, this puts them in a very difficult position socially in the class. They also are often not qualified for it. My gifted child read at a 6th grade level in Kindergarten, but had NO IDEA how to teach another child to read.

+1M

I agree completely. In kindergarten and first grade, my DS' "reading group" was helping other kids read simple books. It was a disservice to the other kids and to him.

You all have a very limited understanding of how a gifted child can be challenged.

First of all, it does challenge a gifted child to articulate how they understand things. It challenges them a great deal. Real learning, enrichment isn't just a constant barrage of new facts. It's learning to communicate a deeper understanding of material. It's learning about audience and how to break things down. And believe me, it does more to prepare children for success in adulthood than most anything else, unless you plan for little gifted Johnny to live in a gated community and never interact with the rest of the world.

And if you think that puts them in a difficult position socially but throwing a party for only them (or doing any public acknowledgement of their success) doesn't, then you are mistaken.

And if your gifted child read at a 6th grade level in kindergarten but didn't know how to teach someone else, then learning to teach someone else IS a NEW skill/thing. It amazes me that you can't recognize that.

This is just not true. And I understand the concept -- my kids were both in Montessori ages 2 - 5.

My DS read at a high school level in kindergarten. I know you will roll your eyes but it is true. He was thirsty for something to actually learn in early ES. Sure, teaching someone else is a new skill but it doesn't substitute for a yearning to be challenged in and interested in school. He LONGED for textbooks. he was frustrated and angry that he had to sit around and talk about the Little Red Hen -- not a lot of deeper understanding of material right there.

And something you seem to not understand about gifted kids -- they are intellectually advanced but often emotionally/socially at the level of their peers. So to expect a kid in K or firts to have the patience to be a teacher is frequently unrealistic. Plus, there was social issue to all of it -- other kids didn't necessarily want to be taught by a peer, and this can create bullying/teasing situations. Finally, you are assuming that teachers have the skills to successfully oversee multiple reading groups and 25 kids in a classroom and help a bored, unchallenged and frustrated six year old learn how to patiently and productively teach his peers.

Kids have a right to learn in every grade. And not learn an ancillary skill like how to teach others, but to expand their own knowledge and stretch their skills. It wasn't until 4th grade at an HCG that my child received this, and he did get a lot of bullying and teasing from other kids along the way.

Oh, good grief. Are you serious? You contradict your own statements. You say that intellectually advanced kids are not necessarily emotionally/socially advanced. Well, then your kid might have been able to read the words of Lord of the Flies in Kindergarten, but if the kid didn't have emotional maturity, I highly doubt your kid understood the themes and content of the book or any high school book for that matter.

I'm not suggesting that advanced kids spend all their time teaching other kids. I'm suggesting in the context of rewards, that this be employed as a method -- that kids be encouraged to take a vested interest in the success of the group, not just the individual. And that partly comes from encouraging kids to work with other kids of all levels.

Furthermore, for people with these kindergarten kids who are reading at middle school and high school level, if they truly are reading that level (and by "reading," I mean comprehending themes and concepts), then they shouldn't be in kindergarten, because no kindergarten teacher is going to be able to teach other kindergarten kids AND teach a 6 year old who understands high school level books. But yeah, I am rolling my eyes, because I do seriously doubt your 6 year old could comprehend high school reading. And if that was truly the case, the school would have recommended your kid skip a grade or two at the least.

And no "teaching" isn't an ancillary skill. Communicating ideas to others, trying to break down things you supposedly know is an essential skill. If a kid can't explain concepts to other kids, then the kid doesn't fully understand the concept. Period.

The more I read these boards, the more I think all of the parents of so-called "gifted" children who hem and haw that their poor kid has the misfortune of having to be surrounded by other kids of other levels are simply deluded about their own child's actual skill level and intellect. The way parents on these boards tell it, you'd think there's little army of 6 year old geniuses. And I highly doubt that is the case.

And if you think bullying is a problem, then socially isolated kids who get As isn't going to help the situation.

I also firmly disagree with the notion that it's the low-achieving kids who are bullying the high-achieving kids. Bullies come in all forms. I've known quite a few bullies who got As, but they never learned social skills or cooperation, they were used to getting what they wanted, and they knew how to manipulate others. Sure, there are also low-achieving (academically speaking) bullies, too. But bullying is a complicated social phenomena that doesn't simply break down into the smart kids get bullied. In fact, most experts agree that the victim of bullying is usually someone who has low self-confidence and is perceived as a vulnerable target. It has little to do with intellectual ability or lack thereof.

If your kid got bullied, it wasn't simply because he was reading at a high school level.

[Anonymous]

They should have two parties one for achievement the other for failures.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the pp. Only 13% of the kids got straight As and they were rewarded for their effort with a special treat. As a parent of one of those children I can tell you that getting As in all his subjects did require hard work in addition to discipline and time management. I am proud of his accomplishments and very happy that the school acknowledged them with more than a poxy certificate.
I think it is unfortunate that this has received so much media coverage. I hope this does not discourage the principal and teachers from doing something similar in the future. All the press has marred what should have been a time of celebration for these hard-working children.
I know there are children who work hard and have a tough time making great grades. I also know that no matter how many hours my son spends on soccer practice, he will never make a good soccer player. He will not be lauded by his peers or his school for his athletic accomplishments no matter how much effort he puts into these pursuits. I am alright with this and I certainly do not begrudge 'star' athletes the social and other rewards they get in school (parades, home coming celebrations, parties, medals). I just think it is odd that it is somehow controversial to acknowledge academic excellence in a school of all places - only in America!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
One approach could be to reward based on group accomplishment. So let's take the party idea. Tell the kids that the class has to reach Goal X in order to have a party. Let's say Goal X is a math test. One group of kids in the class has aced the material; another has not. Break the kids in groups and have the kids who have aced it try to explain the material and assist the kids who have not. The kids for whom the material comes easily are challenged because it is one thing to solve a problem; it is quite another to explain to another person how to solve a problem. It challenges those kids to be leaders. It also helps the kids who are struggling by giving them one on one attention. And often a kid will learn more from a peer than from the teacher, because a kid will explain something in terms another kid will more easily understand. It also teaches the kids to cooperate, because the reward depends on cooperation.

It amazes me when parents complain that their advanced kid isn't challenged if he/she is with not-so-advanced kids. Because there are actually ways to challenge the advanced kids. And it isn't by just surrounding them with other advanced kids.

I tutored when I was in school, and honestly, the material I tutored is the material that, to this day, I know the best. It was a challenge communicating concepts so that someone else could understand. It also taught me valuable skills that I have certainly used as an adult. And it also fostered in me an inclination to understand people instead of dismiss them.

This is just one suggestion of how a reward, such as a party, could be used in a school or a classroom.

But it has to be a combination of group work and individual achievement. Group work where just one product is submitted often results in one or two kids doing all of the work. But a system whereby all kids will have to do an independent assessment but the incentive for all is for the class as a whole to do well gets around that problem.

No. I'm sorry, but as the parent of a gifted child, I have to draw the line at employing my child to do the teacher's job. My child is at school to do her own work and learn for herself. If DC wants to volunteer after school as a tutor, then that's fine. But, during the school day, my child's job is to learn something new for him/herself. NOT spend time teaching someone else.

If that sounds harsh, you have to understand that gifted children are frequently put in this position from very early grades. They are assigned to "help" other kids read, to explain their answers to other kids or to "show" what they can do. This means that the time they have at school to learn something new is spent reviewing something they already know with someone else. Maybe you felt this gave YOU a deeper understanding, but this is not true for everyone. In addition, this puts them in a very difficult position socially in the class. They also are often not qualified for it. My gifted child read at a 6th grade level in Kindergarten, but had NO IDEA how to teach another child to read.

+1M

I agree completely. In kindergarten and first grade, my DS' "reading group" was helping other kids read simple books. It was a disservice to the other kids and to him.

You all have a very limited understanding of how a gifted child can be challenged.

First of all, it does challenge a gifted child to articulate how they understand things. It challenges them a great deal. Real learning, enrichment isn't just a constant barrage of new facts. It's learning to communicate a deeper understanding of material. It's learning about audience and how to break things down. And believe me, it does more to prepare children for success in adulthood than most anything else, unless you plan for little gifted Johnny to live in a gated community and never interact with the rest of the world.

And if you think that puts them in a difficult position socially but throwing a party for only them (or doing any public acknowledgement of their success) doesn't, then you are mistaken.

And if your gifted child read at a 6th grade level in kindergarten but didn't know how to teach someone else, then learning to teach someone else IS a NEW skill/thing. It amazes me that you can't recognize that.

This is just not true. And I understand the concept -- my kids were both in Montessori ages 2 - 5.

My DS read at a high school level in kindergarten. I know you will roll your eyes but it is true. He was thirsty for something to actually learn in early ES. Sure, teaching someone else is a new skill but it doesn't substitute for a yearning to be challenged in and interested in school. He LONGED for textbooks. he was frustrated and angry that he had to sit around and talk about the Little Red Hen -- not a lot of deeper understanding of material right there.

And something you seem to not understand about gifted kids -- they are intellectually advanced but often emotionally/socially at the level of their peers. So to expect a kid in K or firts to have the patience to be a teacher is frequently unrealistic. Plus, there was social issue to all of it -- other kids didn't necessarily want to be taught by a peer, and this can create bullying/teasing situations. Finally, you are assuming that teachers have the skills to successfully oversee multiple reading groups and 25 kids in a classroom and help a bored, unchallenged and frustrated six year old learn how to patiently and productively teach his peers.

Kids have a right to learn in every grade. And not learn an ancillary skill like how to teach others, but to expand their own knowledge and stretch their skills. It wasn't until 4th grade at an HCG that my child received this, and he did get a lot of bullying and teasing from other kids along the way.

Oh, good grief. Are you serious? You contradict your own statements. You say that intellectually advanced kids are not necessarily emotionally/socially advanced. Well, then your kid might have been able to read the words of Lord of the Flies in Kindergarten, but if the kid didn't have emotional maturity, I highly doubt your kid understood the themes and content of the book or any high school book for that matter.

I'm not suggesting that advanced kids spend all their time teaching other kids. I'm suggesting in the context of rewards, that this be employed as a method -- that kids be encouraged to take a vested interest in the success of the group, not just the individual. And that partly comes from encouraging kids to work with other kids of all levels.

Furthermore, for people with these kindergarten kids who are reading at middle school and high school level, if they truly are reading that level (and by "reading," I mean comprehending themes and concepts), then they shouldn't be in kindergarten, because no kindergarten teacher is going to be able to teach other kindergarten kids AND teach a 6 year old who understands high school level books. But yeah, I am rolling my eyes, because I do seriously doubt your 6 year old could comprehend high school reading. And if that was truly the case, the school would have recommended your kid skip a grade or two at the least.

And no "teaching" isn't an ancillary skill. Communicating ideas to others, trying to break down things you supposedly know is an essential skill. If a kid can't explain concepts to other kids, then the kid doesn't fully understand the concept. Period.

The more I read these boards, the more I think all of the parents of so-called "gifted" children who hem and haw that their poor kid has the misfortune of having to be surrounded by other kids of other levels are simply deluded about their own child's actual skill level and intellect. The way parents on these boards tell it, you'd think there's little army of 6 year old geniuses. And I highly doubt that is the case.

And if you think bullying is a problem, then socially isolated kids who get As isn't going to help the situation.

I also firmly disagree with the notion that it's the low-achieving kids who are bullying the high-achieving kids. Bullies come in all forms. I've known quite a few bullies who got As, but they never learned social skills or cooperation, they were used to getting what they wanted, and they knew how to manipulate others. Sure, there are also low-achieving (academically speaking) bullies, too. But bullying is a complicated social phenomena that doesn't simply break down into the smart kids get bullied. In fact, most experts agree that the victim of bullying is usually someone who has low self-confidence and is perceived as a vulnerable target. It has little to do with intellectual ability or lack thereof.

If your kid got bullied, it wasn't simply because he was reading at a high school level.

Well, I think you have kind of an odd chip on your shoulder, but I assure you that DS' experiences weren't unique among kids with that level of ability. And yes, he read high school level books and yes, he understood them from a reading and vocabulary level. It was very hard to find appropriate books because of the social/emotional concepts in some of them; you are correct about that. He has a verbal IQ of 154 on the WISC, which is greater than 99.9th percentile. This is one in about 40,000 kids, and his verbal IQ is more than three standard deviations from the mean -- that's a pretty big difference even among a group of very smart kids. So yeah, he is kind of a special snowflake in that regard; this is what's known as profoundly gifted. It's so interesting how people react to that (although I would never tell his IQ to someone we knew) -- if I was talking about a music prodigy or a sports phenom no one would say I was exaggerating. If he were a soccer prodigy you wouldn't be suggesting that he forego an appropriately-leveled team to teach newbies how to kick the ball. We might all agree that this would be an appropriate way of contributing to society but not at the expense of developing his own skills.

I'm not saying the bullies were stupid! Far from it. This was an overall high achieving class in one of the vaunted "W" pyramids, so those kids were plenty smart. And sure, there's a complex interaction about bullying but I think we all know that blaming the victim isn't ok. However, from the tone of your posts I can imagine that you may subscribe to this approach, even though you probably don't realize it -- DS was different from the other kids and therefore brought the bullying on himself?

Kids like my DS are really outliers and I don't know that MCPS can realistically address their needs in a regular classroom. But if MCPS doesn't create opportunities like HCGs for all grades, kids like this are going to have a difficult time.

Anyway, we've gone off topic from the original post. I'm sure you aren't as unkind and rigid a person as you come across in your posts, but perhaps you will rethink this a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the party doesn't reward kids for hard work or improvement; it rewards kids for getting good grades. Moreover, it does so by creating a caste system.

I agree with this. It's a cruel message for the kids who are working as hard as they can and still fall short of an A.


Isn't that life though? Sometimes you work really hard and it doesn't work out. Kind of
sucks but that's reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the party doesn't reward kids for hard work or improvement; it rewards kids for getting good grades. Moreover, it does so by creating a caste system.

I agree with this. It's a cruel message for the kids who are working as hard as they can and still fall short of an A.

Isn't that life though? Sometimes you work really hard and it doesn't work out. Kind of
sucks but that's reality.

But "life" is not the reason these kids may attend the party and those kids may not. The school administration's policy is the reason. And I don't think that the viewpoint of "sometimes you work really hard and it doesn't work out" is a viewpoint a school administration should deliberately be teaching kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the party doesn't reward kids for hard work or improvement; it rewards kids for getting good grades. Moreover, it does so by creating a caste system.

I agree with this. It's a cruel message for the kids who are working as hard as they can and still fall short of an A.

Isn't that life though? Sometimes you work really hard and it doesn't work out. Kind of
sucks but that's reality.

But "life" is not the reason these kids may attend the party and those kids may not. The school administration's policy is the reason. And I don't think that the viewpoint of "sometimes you work really hard and it doesn't work out" is a viewpoint a school administration should deliberately be teaching kids.

I teach my kids to always try to work hard. I also teach them that most of the time,
their hard work will be enough. Sometimes, though, for whatever reason -- it may fall short.
It is then up to my children to take accountability and figure out what, if anything, they can change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the pp. Only 13% of the kids got straight As and they were rewarded for their effort with a special treat. As a parent of one of those children I can tell you that getting As in all his subjects did require hard work in addition to discipline and time management. I am proud of his accomplishments and very happy that the school acknowledged them with more than a poxy certificate.
I think it is unfortunate that this has received so much media coverage. I hope this does not discourage the principal and teachers from doing something similar in the future. All the press has marred what should have been a time of celebration for these hard-working children.
I know there are children who work hard and have a tough time making great grades. I also know that no matter how many hours my son spends on soccer practice, he will never make a good soccer player. He will not be lauded by his peers or his school for his athletic accomplishments no matter how much effort he puts into these pursuits. I am alright with this and I certainly do not begrudge 'star' athletes the social and other rewards they get in school (parades, home coming celebrations, parties, medals). I just think it is odd that it is somehow controversial to acknowledge academic excellence in a school of all places - only in America!

+1

Excellent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But the party doesn't reward kids for hard work or improvement; it rewards kids for getting good grades. Moreover, it does so by creating a caste system.

I agree with this. It's a cruel message for the kids who are working as hard as they can and still fall short of an A.

Isn't that life though? Sometimes you work really hard and it doesn't work out. Kind of
sucks but that's reality.

But "life" is not the reason these kids may attend the party and those kids may not. The school administration's policy is the reason. And I don't think that the viewpoint of "sometimes you work really hard and it doesn't work out" is a viewpoint a school administration should deliberately be teaching kids.

I think everyone has missed the point that the school does multiple events to recognize kids throughout the school, not just A students. It varies from quarter to quarter but often the recognition is for everyone whose grades improved during the quarter -- even if they improved from an E to a D.

It's a really varied population with a lot of different needs and the school approaches student recognition in a variety of ways.

[Anonymous]

Simple question: What is the goal of all these award events?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Caste system, pah-lease! This is good training for real life. Your boss will not reward you for working hard. Your boss rewards you for success, achievement and accomplishment. The best students got pizza, soda, a game room and some dancing. The B and C students got soda as a reward. Other student got to come later

This would be a good motto for Ayn Rand Middle School. I, on the other hand, think there can be a more progressive and nurturing approach for 12 year old children.

I agree. Just because the adult world is harsh and cruel doesn't mean we want to mimic that for children. In fact, I would hope that we educate our children in such a way that they will create a better environment as adults, one that isn't "the ends justify the means." I feel in the adult world now, people get rewarded even when their accomplishment is based on back-stabbing, cheating, undermining others. Even though success and accomplishment are important in the workplace, there should still be a sense of fairness and cooperation. After all, very RARELY is an accomplishment or success just attributable to the efforts of one person. My experience has been that usually a lot of people's hard work contributed to the success, but the boss only rewards the one who self-promotes the most or gets the most visibility.

Everyone says that children are our future, and yet people are insistent on raising children in such a way as they will conform to the way the world is now. If we truly believe children are our future, then we should raise them in such a way that they will transform the world to make it better, not just keep in motion all of the old problems and nastiness.

It's about balance. You can encourage success and accomplishment without shutting out students who work hard but don't necessarily reach the same goals. It isn't about giving an award to everyone. It's about setting up values. The value that we want to instill isn't "getting an A." The value we want to instill is studying and working hard so that you get the best grade possible. Believe it or not, some kids get As easily. They didn't work hard. Other kids study and study and still can't get an A. If they see that their hard work not only doesn't get them an A but also means they're excluded, then they give up. And that is a bigger problem in school. I knew people in high school who had labeled themselves in such a way that they gave up, because they felt like even when they studied hard, they still didn't do as well.

I've also known people for whom As came easily growing up. they never had to work hard. They actually haven't done well as adults because they learned that they could be lazy and still be praised and rewarded. All the praise they got from their teachers didn't serve them well because it was praise for a result, a result that came naturally to them.

I think this is well said. I also think it's all kinds of wrong to reward children with food (and not unimportantly, it Montgomery county schools has a policy that forbids it.)

[Anonymous]

pp here... Also want to add that the schools give WAAAY too many rewards these days as it is. The kids don't need freakin' rewards for everything. It starts in kindergarten with stickers and lollipops and then goes on with all kinds of convoluted reward systems that see the teachers having to spend their own money on things (even if they're from the dollar store, they add up!)

Why is getting straight As not considered a reward in itself? The achievement is the reward. I think we do the kids a disservice to suggest anything else. I think we'll also see problems with this in society in the future as this generation becomes adults who expect every little achievement to have a material reward. (I've already heard from a high school teacher how when he tells a student they did a good job, they say "what do i get?")