why do parents make things forbidden fruit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP, nope, my kids never sneaked around. They actually *gasp* followed our rules, and we were generally flexible overall.

HAHAHA..your kids followed your rules because you were flexible about your "rules". Sadly, waiting to hear about whatever daycare center your DS will be spraying with AK-47 clips..."Aidan Bleefner was a quiet sort of kid-no one can remember him do anything other than lighting coffee can filled with gunpowder on fire in the woods behind his family's 8 bedroom house in the Utopia Park neighborhood. His parents were really flexible about rules and when any one tried to suggest there might a problem with their son's behavior, the parents would scream: Fuck You, We're Being Flexible."

I agree with your point, but this comment is way out of line.

[Anonymous]

Kids need rules but they also need to learn how to internalize discipline. They need to learn how to make their own decisions and exercise good judgment while they are under your roof. And they need to be able to speak honestly with you about problems along the way. All of these things will not happen is you are too strict.

I have older teens and I've seen it time and time again. If kids are inundated with rules, they will eventually break one of them. And when the sky doesn't fall in on them they will learn that the rules don't matter and that none of them are worth respecting. Or the sky will fall in on them and they will feel its irrational and that their friends don't have to put up with it and then they will lose buy-in for ALL the rules. And if you have such strict rules and they run into some kind of trouble or have a problem, you will be the last person they will come to. At the very least, they will shut you out of their lives as they get older because they will believe you don't get it, don't get their lives, have nothing to offer them.

I want my children to learn how to stop themselves. I want them to be able to decide that something is wrong or harmful and to put on the breaks. And the only way to teach them these skills is to gradually give them more freedom to make their own decisions, even if they wear too much make up and slow dance with boys. If Mom tells them they can't wear make up or go to parties with boys, they won't learn these things. The best way to approach these things is to get a general sense of what the other parents are doing. That doesn't mean copying their rules but it does mean trying to synch your basic approach with the parents of your kids' peers.

And those of you who insist that your children do follow all your rules and you know they aren't engaging in bad behavior, jokes on you. I know from the open communication with my children what your children are doing -- especially the children of the strict parents. I know, but you don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids need rules but they also need to learn how to internalize discipline. They need to learn how to make their own decisions and exercise good judgment while they are under your roof. And they need to be able to speak honestly with you about problems along the way. All of these things will not happen is you are too strict.

I have older teens and I've seen it time and time again. If kids are inundated with rules, they will eventually break one of them. And when the sky doesn't fall in on them they will learn that the rules don't matter and that none of them are worth respecting. Or the sky will fall in on them and they will feel its irrational and that their friends don't have to put up with it and then they will lose buy-in for ALL the rules. And if you have such strict rules and they run into some kind of trouble or have a problem, you will be the last person they will come to. At the very least, they will shut you out of their lives as they get older because they will believe you don't get it, don't get their lives, have nothing to offer them.

I want my children to learn how to stop themselves. I want them to be able to decide that something is wrong or harmful and to put on the breaks. And the only way to teach them these skills is to gradually give them more freedom to make their own decisions, even if they wear too much make up and slow dance with boys. If Mom tells them they can't wear make up or go to parties with boys, they won't learn these things. The best way to approach these things is to get a general sense of what the other parents are doing. That doesn't mean copying their rules but it does mean trying to synch your basic approach with the parents of your kids' peers.

And those of you who insist that your children do follow all your rules and you know they aren't engaging in bad behavior, jokes on you. I know from the open communication with my children what your children are doing -- especially the children of the strict parents. I know, but you don't.

The problem is that you seem to think that you, a complete third party, can tell at a glance whether parents are overly strict and whether the children are sneaking around and whether there is open communication in SOMEONE ELSE'S FAMILY. You choose to have very few rules toward your children, and you feel that there is a lot of open communication between your child and you. I am glad that is working for you. Sincerely. But as several other families have a tested, either they themselves were raised with a lot of strict rules AND open and loving communication in the same family, Or they are raising their children with a lot of strict rules and they also believe that they have a lot of open communication with their children. You have dismissed the accounts of people who attested that they were open with their own strict parents, and have told the people who believe that their children are open with them in spite of strict rules are clearly deceiving themselves. Do you not understand that this is obviously bullshit on your part? Why is it that your sense of having open and positive communication with your teen is valid but the open and positive communication that other posters have experienced with their teens are somehow invalidated simply because that would disprove your point?

You keep trying to set up a strawman argument where the other posters think that more rules equals better teens. Zero people have argued that that is the case. You, in fact are the one who is trying to argue that fewer rules automatically equals better teens. This is also obviously false. I think that any remotely reasonable parent can agree that there must be a happy medium where the teen has some opportunities to be guided by appropriate rules and other opportunities to exercise their own judgment. What other posters are arguing is that that happy medium exists at a different place for every category of rules and for every family and for every child. If you can't agree that it's possible for other parents to parent well while also parenting differently from you then there's simply nothing reasonable to be said to you.

[Anonymous]

To the posters who insist that their rules are somehow more valid than the rest of our rules simply because they explain their rules, to you I say: Wow! Thank you so much for inventing the concept of an explanation! The rest of us have all just been issuing draconian orders to our children since the time they emerged from our wombs. Good thing you came along and explained the concept of a conversation

If you seriously think that anyone who is "strict" (a concept the rest of these posters seem to define as "has more/different rules than I do") has never bothered to explain the logic behind any of their rules, then you are seriously missing a clue. EVERYONE I know explains their logic to their kids, but not every kid cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids need rules but they also need to learn how to internalize discipline. They need to learn how to make their own decisions and exercise good judgment while they are under your roof. And they need to be able to speak honestly with you about problems along the way. All of these things will not happen is you are too strict.

I have older teens and I've seen it time and time again. If kids are inundated with rules, they will eventually break one of them. And when the sky doesn't fall in on them they will learn that the rules don't matter and that none of them are worth respecting. Or the sky will fall in on them and they will feel its irrational and that their friends don't have to put up with it and then they will lose buy-in for ALL the rules. And if you have such strict rules and they run into some kind of trouble or have a problem, you will be the last person they will come to. At the very least, they will shut you out of their lives as they get older because they will believe you don't get it, don't get their lives, have nothing to offer them.

I want my children to learn how to stop themselves. I want them to be able to decide that something is wrong or harmful and to put on the breaks. And the only way to teach them these skills is to gradually give them more freedom to make their own decisions, even if they wear too much make up and slow dance with boys. If Mom tells them they can't wear make up or go to parties with boys, they won't learn these things. The best way to approach these things is to get a general sense of what the other parents are doing. That doesn't mean copying their rules but it does mean trying to synch your basic approach with the parents of your kids' peers.

And those of you who insist that your children do follow all your rules and you know they aren't engaging in bad behavior, jokes on you. I know from the open communication with my children what your children are doing -- especially the children of the strict parents. I know, but you don't.

The problem is that you seem to think that you, a complete third party, can tell at a glance whether parents are overly strict and whether the children are sneaking around and whether there is open communication in SOMEONE ELSE'S FAMILY. You choose to have very few rules toward your children, and you feel that there is a lot of open communication between your child and you. I am glad that is working for you. Sincerely. But as several other families have a tested, either they themselves were raised with a lot of strict rules AND open and loving communication in the same family, Or they are raising their children with a lot of strict rules and they also believe that they have a lot of open communication with their children. You have dismissed the accounts of people who attested that they were open with their own strict parents, and have told the people who believe that their children are open with them in spite of strict rules are clearly deceiving themselves. Do you not understand that this is obviously bullshit on your part? Why is it that your sense of having open and positive communication with your teen is valid but the open and positive communication that other posters have experienced with their teens are somehow invalidated simply because that would disprove your point?

You keep trying to set up a strawman argument where the other posters think that more rules equals better teens. Zero people have argued that that is the case. You, in fact are the one who is trying to argue that fewer rules automatically equals better teens. This is also obviously false. I think that any remotely reasonable parent can agree that there must be a happy medium where the teen has some opportunities to be guided by appropriate rules and other opportunities to exercise their own judgment. What other posters are arguing is that that happy medium exists at a different place for every category of rules and for every family and for every child. If you can't agree that it's possible for other parents to parent well while also parenting differently from you then there's simply nothing reasonable to be said to you.

Hate to break it to you, but the above post was not written by me - the PP who argued about settting up reasonable rules in order to not create "forbidden fruit" (who you seem to be thinking wrote the above post). The person you are referencing above is a different poster...I guess I'm not alone in my assessment of what is out there for teens and clueless parents.

Also, not once did I argue that fewer rules was appropriate. I stated that any rules that are set need to be reasonable and understood. I also never stated that parenting differently from me was a bad thing. What I did say (again...reading = helpful) is that parents cannot stick their head in the sand believing that their teens are automatically following rules because they set them. If you bother to read my examples I reference parents who are truly clueless in what their kids are doing. I don't care if you set different limits - strict or not strict - but don't be clueless as a parent!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the posters who insist that their rules are somehow more valid than the rest of our rules simply because they explain their rules, to you I say: Wow! Thank you so much for inventing the concept of an explanation! The rest of us have all just been issuing draconian orders to our children since the time they emerged from our wombs. Good thing you came along and explained the concept of a conversation

If you seriously think that anyone who is "strict" (a concept the rest of these posters seem to define as "has more/different rules than I do") has never bothered to explain the logic behind any of their rules, then you are seriously missing a clue. EVERYONE I know explains their logic to their kids, but not every kid cares.

Then clearly you are not the parent I am talking about...if you read the posts, my problems are with parents who are clueless and don't talk to their kids - not the ones who have different rules than mine. Stop being defensive and be confident that you are not the parent who comes across as clueless. Also, admit that you know plenty of parents who just simply don't know what their kids are doing, but truly believe they do. As the PP stated - jokes on them...

[Anonymous]

I'm 19:38 and that was my only post in this thread so I'm not who you think I am. I was not responding to anyone in particular, just commenting in general. And I never said I had "very few rules." All I'm saying is that the trouble comes when one child's rules are completely out of synch with those of his or her peers.

[Anonymous]

Meh...I've never bought into the forbidden fruit argument. Kids and adults like to do certain things. They will want to do these things whether you forbid it or not. Not being allowed to have it doesn't make you do it more, it makes it harder to obtain. You may appreciate it more for the effort you put forth getting it BUT it doesn't make you want it more than the next person.

Personally, I have no intention of monitoring what the majority or teen or preteen kids is doing to make sure that our boundaries or rules fall within a specific range. We don't allow TV during the week. It doesn't make them want it more on the weekend. We don't allow soda and so far at age 10 and 8 neither has expressed any interest in it.

I probably will not allow make up at age 13 either. Its a bad idea as this is the age when they start to break out and make up makes it worse not better. I'm not really worried that it will become forbidden fruit and DD will end up looking like Tammy Faye Baker once she gets her hands on some eyeliner.

I wouldn't care about boys at parties because DD has friends who are boys and my kids have never had one gender only friend circles.

[Anonymous]

I think what the OP is talking about is when parents set "not until you're" ages instead of basing privileges on demonstrated maturity, necessity, or other real world circumstances. I get that, and agree that it makes things more titillating. But I also remember feeling some envy when I was a teen toward my friends whose parents did that. It somehow made the kids feel protected and secure, having those hard and fast rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids need rules but they also need to learn how to internalize discipline. They need to learn how to make their own decisions and exercise good judgment while they are under your roof. And they need to be able to speak honestly with you about problems along the way. All of these things will not happen is you are too strict.

I have older teens and I've seen it time and time again. If kids are inundated with rules, they will eventually break one of them. And when the sky doesn't fall in on them they will learn that the rules don't matter and that none of them are worth respecting. Or the sky will fall in on them and they will feel its irrational and that their friends don't have to put up with it and then they will lose buy-in for ALL the rules. And if you have such strict rules and they run into some kind of trouble or have a problem, you will be the last person they will come to. At the very least, they will shut you out of their lives as they get older because they will believe you don't get it, don't get their lives, have nothing to offer them.

I want my children to learn how to stop themselves. I want them to be able to decide that something is wrong or harmful and to put on the breaks. And the only way to teach them these skills is to gradually give them more freedom to make their own decisions, even if they wear too much make up and slow dance with boys. If Mom tells them they can't wear make up or go to parties with boys, they won't learn these things. The best way to approach these things is to get a general sense of what the other parents are doing. That doesn't mean copying their rules but it does mean trying to synch your basic approach with the parents of your kids' peers.

And those of you who insist that your children do follow all your rules and you know they aren't engaging in bad behavior, jokes on you. I know from the open communication with my children what your children are doing -- especially the children of the strict parents. I know, but you don't.

The problem is that you seem to think that you, a complete third party, can tell at a glance whether parents are overly strict and whether the children are sneaking around and whether there is open communication in SOMEONE ELSE'S FAMILY. You choose to have very few rules toward your children, and you feel that there is a lot of open communication between your child and you. I am glad that is working for you. Sincerely. But as several other families have a tested, either they themselves were raised with a lot of strict rules AND open and loving communication in the same family, Or they are raising their children with a lot of strict rules and they also believe that they have a lot of open communication with their children. You have dismissed the accounts of people who attested that they were open with their own strict parents, and have told the people who believe that their children are open with them in spite of strict rules are clearly deceiving themselves. Do you not understand that this is obviously bullshit on your part? Why is it that your sense of having open and positive communication with your teen is valid but the open and positive communication that other posters have experienced with their teens are somehow invalidated simply because that would disprove your point?

You keep trying to set up a strawman argument where the other posters think that more rules equals better teens. Zero people have argued that that is the case. You, in fact are the one who is trying to argue that fewer rules automatically equals better teens. This is also obviously false. I think that any remotely reasonable parent can agree that there must be a happy medium where the teen has some opportunities to be guided by appropriate rules and other opportunities to exercise their own judgment. What other posters are arguing is that that happy medium exists at a different place for every category of rules and for every family and for every child. If you can't agree that it's possible for other parents to parent well while also parenting differently from you then there's simply nothing reasonable to be said to you.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm 19:38 and that was my only post in this thread so I'm not who you think I am. I was not responding to anyone in particular, just commenting in general. And I never said I had "very few rules." All I'm saying is that the trouble comes when one child's rules are completely out of synch with those of his or her peers.

Not all kids are equally conformist. Some kids are very much bothered if they are not like their peers, some or not. Growing up, I always relished being different in at least some respects. I always had friends and was somewhat of a trendsetter. I thought it kind of beneath me to do what everyone else was doing, especially if I didn't come to it first. it remained so to this day and I wouldn't change a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 19:38 and that was my only post in this thread so I'm not who you think I am. I was not responding to anyone in particular, just commenting in general. And I never said I had "very few rules." All I'm saying is that the trouble comes when one child's rules are completely out of synch with those of his or her peers.

Not all kids are equally conformist. Some kids are very much bothered if they are not like their peers, some or not. Growing up, I always relished being different in at least some respects. I always had friends and was somewhat of a trendsetter. I thought it kind of beneath me to do what everyone else was doing, especially if I didn't come to it first. it remained so to this day and I wouldn't change a thing.

You are completely misunderstanding my post. I love kids who are nonconformists, my own DC qualifies for that label. But if a girl is the only one not wearing make-up because her parents won't let her, thats not nonconformity. If the girl decides not to wear makeup even though everyone else is, thats nonconformity. Parents cannot dictate whether or not their children are nonconformists. Because if kids are solely following their parents' dictates, they are conforming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 19:38 and that was my only post in this thread so I'm not who you think I am. I was not responding to anyone in particular, just commenting in general. And I never said I had "very few rules." All I'm saying is that the trouble comes when one child's rules are completely out of synch with those of his or her peers.

Not all kids are equally conformist. Some kids are very much bothered if they are not like their peers, some or not. Growing up, I always relished being different in at least some respects. I always had friends and was somewhat of a trendsetter. I thought it kind of beneath me to do what everyone else was doing, especially if I didn't come to it first. it remained so to this day and I wouldn't change a thing.

You are completely misunderstanding my post. I love kids who are nonconformists, my own DC qualifies for that label. But if a girl is the only one not wearing make-up because her parents won't let her, thats not nonconformity. If the girl decides not to wear makeup even though everyone else is, thats nonconformity. Parents cannot dictate whether or not their children are nonconformists. Because if kids are solely following their parents' dictates, they are conforming.

Nonconformist kids can be on the same page as their parents rather than their peers. your kid sounds like a big time conformist, and so do you, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 19:38 and that was my only post in this thread so I'm not who you think I am. I was not responding to anyone in particular, just commenting in general. And I never said I had "very few rules." All I'm saying is that the trouble comes when one child's rules are completely out of synch with those of his or her peers.

Not all kids are equally conformist. Some kids are very much bothered if they are not like their peers, some or not. Growing up, I always relished being different in at least some respects. I always had friends and was somewhat of a trendsetter. I thought it kind of beneath me to do what everyone else was doing, especially if I didn't come to it first. it remained so to this day and I wouldn't change a thing.

You are completely misunderstanding my post. I love kids who are nonconformists, my own DC qualifies for that label. But if a girl is the only one not wearing make-up because her parents won't let her, thats not nonconformity. If the girl decides not to wear makeup even though everyone else is, thats nonconformity. Parents cannot dictate whether or not their children are nonconformists. Because if kids are solely following their parents' dictates, they are conforming.

Nonconformist kids can be on the same page as their parents rather than their peers. your kid sounds like a big time conformist, and so do you, sorry.

?

[Anonymous]

The "conformist" vs. "nonconformist" discussions are sending me right back to HS. Thanks for the laugh.