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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Kids need rules but they also need to learn how to internalize discipline.  They need to learn how to make their own decisions and exercise good judgment while they are under your roof.  And they need to be able to speak honestly with you about problems along the way.  All of these things will not happen is you are too strict.

I have older teens and I've seen it time and time again.  If kids are inundated with rules, they will eventually break one of them.  And when the sky doesn't fall in on them they will learn that the rules don't matter and that none of them are worth respecting.  Or the sky will fall in on them and they will feel its irrational and that their friends don't have to put up with it and then they will lose buy-in for ALL the rules.  And if you have such strict rules and they run into some kind of trouble or have a problem, you will be the last person they will come to.  At the very least, they will shut you out of their lives as they get older because they will believe you don't get it, don't get their lives, have nothing to offer them.

I want my children to learn how to stop themselves.  I want them to be able to decide that something is wrong or harmful and to put on the breaks.  And the only way to teach them these skills is to gradually give them more freedom to make their own decisions, even if they wear too much make up and slow dance with boys.  If Mom tells them they can't wear make up or go to parties with boys, they won't learn these things.  The best way to approach these things is to get a general sense of what the other parents are doing.  That doesn't mean copying their rules but it does mean trying to synch your basic approach with the parents of your kids' peers.

And those of you who insist that your children do follow all your rules and you know they aren't engaging in bad behavior, jokes on you.  I know from the open communication with my children what your children are doing -- especially the children of the strict parents.  I know, but you don't.[/quote]

The problem is that you seem to think that you, a complete third party, can tell at a glance whether parents are overly strict and whether the children are sneaking around and whether there is open communication in SOMEONE ELSE'S FAMILY.  You choose to have very few rules toward your children, and you feel that there is a lot of open communication between your child and you.  I am glad that is working for you. Sincerely.  But as several other families have a tested, either they themselves were raised with a lot of strict rules AND open and loving communication in the same family, Or they are raising their children with a lot of strict rules and they also believe that they have a lot of open communication with their children.  You have dismissed the accounts of people who attested that they were open with their own strict parents, and have told the people who believe that their children are open with them in spite of strict rules are clearly deceiving themselves.  Do you not understand that this is obviously bullshit on your part? Why is it that your sense of having open and positive communication with your teen is valid but the open and positive communication that other posters have experienced with their teens are somehow invalidated simply because that would disprove your point?

You keep trying to set up a strawman argument where the other posters think that more rules equals better teens. Zero people have argued that that is the case.  You, in fact are the one who is trying to argue that fewer rules automatically equals better teens. This is also obviously false.  I think that any remotely reasonable parent can agree that there must be a happy medium where the teen has some opportunities to be guided by appropriate rules and other opportunities to exercise their own judgment. What other posters are arguing is that that happy medium exists at a different place for every category of rules and for every family and for every child.  If you can't agree that it's possible for other parents to parent well while also parenting differently from you then there's simply nothing reasonable to be said to you.[/quote]

Hate to break it to you, but the above post was not written by me - the PP who argued about settting up reasonable rules in order to not create "forbidden fruit" (who you seem to be thinking wrote the above post). The person you are referencing above is a different poster...I guess I'm not alone in my assessment of what is out there for teens and clueless parents.

Also, not once did I argue that fewer rules was appropriate. I stated that any rules that are set need to be reasonable and understood. I also never stated that parenting differently from me was a bad thing. What I did say (again...reading = helpful) is that parents cannot stick their head in the sand believing that their teens are automatically following rules because they set them. If you bother to read my examples I reference parents who are truly clueless in what their kids are doing. I don't care if you set different limits - strict or not strict - but don't be clueless as a parent!

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