s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS

This is exactly why Naviance scattergram info is so important, at least for VA high schools and colleges, IMO. JMU admissions rep said kids from our local public really needed a 3.8 gpa to apply. At the time (5 years ago), VT accepted average 3.98 gpa from our public school. So in DS's experience, 3.6GPA/1800 SAT coming from a Va public HS puts you in the middle of the class. DS was denied at JMU and accepted to all the out of state schools where he applied and those were objectively "better" than JMU (higher average scores required for admission). He's very happy with the school he chose so it does all work out.
I'd check out one of the college fairs around and talk with the admissions rep from VT.

It would be interesting to look at the Common Data Set for comparison.

I have heard, though, that the dynamic at play at the VA state colleges and universities is that they could fill all their spots from Fairfax and Arlington counties if admissions were based on scores and GPA alone. So yes kids from northern VA (unless they have a "hook") are probably held to a higher standard.

This is quite correct. That's why you do have to pay attention to the scattergrams. It is almost impossible to get into UVA from Langley High School. However, if you were to apply from the southern or western part of the state, it would be a whole 'nother story.

By the way, for the mom who wants Perdue, it's Purdue not Perdue like the chicken magnet.

[Anonymous]

Thank you, when I looked at it it seemed off, but my Friday afternoon brain couldn't figure it out. Spelling is not our family's forte. (nor is typing )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

We did the pre paid tuition too and the only problem I have with going out of state is the extra $100k+ it costs.

For an out of state (OOS) public college, we found there's "only" a $40-$50,000 difference. Really the only saving grace is that they can get into a much better school OOS than the ones they can get into in VA (talking about this area's "average" kids).

Not quite sure how you meant it, but to clarify on the figures - and to point out that out-of-state is simply unsustainable for many now, the different is $6-$9K for tuition for VA instate x 4 years (if lucky) = $36,000 plus room and board x 4 years. (We are close enough to the university, that if necessary, DC could commute). To attend my old so-so alma mater (including room and board) is $56K a year x standard five years to finish (need to do a year abroad, can't get necessary classes, etc.) = $280,000 plus four or five years of air travel. Yes, many colleges hand out some financial aid but it is a drop in the bucket. And we are boring middle class white people.

My #s were based on an (out of state) state scoool. Our bottom line cost is about $32,000. UVA publishes cost of attendance to be $24,000 per yr for VA residents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

We did the pre paid tuition too and the only problem I have with going out of state is the extra $100k+ it costs.

For an out of state (OOS) public college, we found there's "only" a $40-$50,000 difference. Really the only saving grace is that they can get into a much better school OOS than the ones they can get into in VA (talking about this area's "average" kids).

That is comparing current in state tuition costs to out of state costs. Since we bought the pre paid tuition in 2000 or 2001, the difference is greater. We will only get about $25-$30k out of the pre paid tuition if our DC goes out of state. Looking at Perdue (an Engineering School I have seen several NOVA students attend that couldn't get into VT), the out of state tuition is $29k, so we would have to come up with three more years or closer to $90k and that is based on this years rates, not what they will be when our DCs actually get to the college. So, we are planning on at least $100k additional costs to go out of state.

Not sure if I'm understanding you but to clarify: when your kid goes OOS, VA prepaid converts to a VA 529 account essentially. VA plan will pay out the average cost of Va tuitions at today's tuition, not based on when you purchased your prepaid contract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian is the new White in this area. Can I say that without offending anyone? It's no longer a minority (and I'm sure you've heard Asians are the majority race at the uber competitive Thomas Jefferson STEM magnet in Virginia).

Well, actually it is the "new Jew". Jews were better qualified but actively discriminated against in the Ivies through at least the late 1950s. For example, a friend of mine told me in the very late 1950s there were only so many Jewish slots at Harvard Law (in contrast, when I went there, I felt like the only WASP and there were few Asian Americans); only so many slots on the Law Review for Jews; and, after graduation, Jews knew which law firms in NYC were Jewish, and which were not and applied accordingly. That world has completely changed. I glanced at the NYTimes article someone posted and it talks about this anti-Jewish discrimination going back to the 1920s (when better qualified Jews started applying to the Ivies) and lasting through the 1960s. Of course there weren't many women when I went there, either. Now women are more than 50% of the class in most law schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS

This is exactly why Naviance scattergram info is so important, at least for VA high schools and colleges, IMO. JMU admissions rep said kids from our local public really needed a 3.8 gpa to apply. At the time (5 years ago), VT accepted average 3.98 gpa from our public school. So in DS's experience, 3.6GPA/1800 SAT coming from a Va public HS puts you in the middle of the class. DS was denied at JMU and accepted to all the out of state schools where he applied and those were objectively "better" than JMU (higher average scores required for admission). He's very happy with the school he chose so it does all work out.
I'd check out one of the college fairs around and talk with the admissions rep from VT.

It would be interesting to look at the Common Data Set for comparison.

I have heard, though, that the dynamic at play at the VA state colleges and universities is that they could fill all their spots from Fairfax and Arlington counties if admissions were based on scores and GPA alone. So yes kids from northern VA (unless they have a "hook") are probably held to a higher standard.

This is quite correct. That's why you do have to pay attention to the scattergrams. It is almost impossible to get into UVA from Langley High School. However, if you were to apply from the southern or western part of the state, it would be a whole 'nother story.

By the way, for the mom who wants Perdue, it's Purdue not Perdue like the chicken magnet.

And it's magnate not magnet. My father went to Purdue and hated that he was from Indiana his whole life. He probably would have called the school a chicken magnet since in his day so many farm kids attended the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. He did apply priority decision by the 11/1 deadline. He had the math score, his reading was a little below, but close.

He is Asian. Do you think that would be why? The whole B is an Asian F thing?

Straight from Wikipedia:

Legacy preferences in comparison to other programmes

At some schools, legacy preferences have an effect on admissions comparable to other factors such as being a recruited athlete or affirmative action. One study of three selective private research universities in the United States showed the following effects (admissions disadvantage and advantage in terms of SAT points on the old 1600-point scale):

Blacks: +230
Hispanics: +185
Asians: –50
Recruited athletes: +200
Legacies (children of alumni): +160[6]

So for Asian applicants, SAT is automatically deducted by 50 points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

We did the pre paid tuition too and the only problem I have with going out of state is the extra $100k+ it costs.

For an out of state (OOS) public college, we found there's "only" a $40-$50,000 difference. Really the only saving grace is that they can get into a much better school OOS than the ones they can get into in VA (talking about this area's "average" kids).

That is comparing current in state tuition costs to out of state costs. Since we bought the pre paid tuition in 2000 or 2001, the difference is greater. We will only get about $25-$30k out of the pre paid tuition if our DC goes out of state. Looking at Perdue (an Engineering School I have seen several NOVA students attend that couldn't get into VT), the out of state tuition is $29k, so we would have to come up with three more years or closer to $90k and that is based on this years rates, not what they will be when our DCs actually get to the college. So, we are planning on at least $100k additional costs to go out of state.

Not sure if I'm understanding you but to clarify: when your kid goes OOS, VA prepaid converts to a VA 529 account essentially. VA plan will pay out the average cost of Va tuitions at today's tuition, not based on when you purchased your prepaid contract.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS

Early Decision is another tool many of the college counselors don't tell you about. And yes, the GPA is usually a bit lower for ED students. Some of the SLACs now fill almost 50% of their first-year classes with ED admits. DC ended up on the waiting list at her two greatest reach schools. She's very happy where she ended up but sometimes wonders whether ED might have made the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

We did the pre paid tuition too and the only problem I have with going out of state is the extra $100k+ it costs.

For an out of state (OOS) public college, we found there's "only" a $40-$50,000 difference. Really the only saving grace is that they can get into a much better school OOS than the ones they can get into in VA (talking about this area's "average" kids).

That is comparing current in state tuition costs to out of state costs. Since we bought the pre paid tuition in 2000 or 2001, the difference is greater. We will only get about $25-$30k out of the pre paid tuition if our DC goes out of state. Looking at Perdue (an Engineering School I have seen several NOVA students attend that couldn't get into VT), the out of state tuition is $29k, so we would have to come up with three more years or closer to $90k and that is based on this years rates, not what they will be when our DCs actually get to the college. So, we are planning on at least $100k additional costs to go out of state.

Not sure if I'm understanding you but to clarify: when your kid goes OOS, VA prepaid converts to a VA 529 account essentially. VA plan will pay out the average cost of Va tuitions at today's tuition, not based on when you purchased your prepaid contract.

No, if your chld does not attend an in state school, the plan will pay out what you paid in plus passbook interest rates with a Cap of whatever the current average public tuition rates are in VA.. So, we put in around $21k and have earned (mainly in the early years) enough so the payout is around $28k. They do not pay out the current tuition rates if your child does not attend a in state VA school.


WWW.Virginia529.com/vpep/index.php "Out of State College or University: The lesser of ayments plus reasonable Rate of return (aka passbook) or Cap = Average of Virginia public institution tuition and mandatory fees"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS

Early Decision is another tool many of the college counselors don't tell you about. And yes, the GPA is usually a bit lower for ED students. Some of the SLACs now fill almost 50% of their first-year classes with ED admits. DC ended up on the waiting list at her two greatest reach schools. She's very happy where she ended up but sometimes wonders whether ED might have made the difference.

ED is fine if you can afford to foot the whole bill. I have heard that it takes away some of the bargaining power/financial aid offers, even for merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Ok but we've been having checks sent from the VA plan directly to the OOS college in an amount equal to the current average of Virginia state college tuitions. At least that's how it's been for 5 college semesters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok but we've been having checks sent from the VA plan directly to the OOS college in an amount equal to the current average of Virginia state college tuitions. At least that's how it's been for 5 college semesters.

Have they paid out significantly more than you paid into it? When did you start the VPEP? Maybe they changed between the time that you enrolled and we enrolled. We get an accounting periodically from VPEP leting us know how much our VPEP is "worth".

[Anonymous]

I'm wondering if the rules for payout change when you convert from VPEP to the VA 529 (which was recommended and we did)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS

Early Decision is another tool many of the college counselors don't tell you about. And yes, the GPA is usually a bit lower for ED students. Some of the SLACs now fill almost 50% of their first-year classes with ED admits. DC ended up on the waiting list at her two greatest reach schools. She's very happy where she ended up but sometimes wonders whether ED might have made the difference.

ED is fine if you can afford to foot the whole bill. I have heard that it takes away some of the bargaining power/financial aid offers, even for merit aid.

Good point.