s/o college- where was your kid denied acceptance that surprised you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That surprises me too. According to the scattergram on our HS (BCC's) naviance that would put him over the average for unweighted GPA, ACT, and SAT. It does look like he took a slightly less challenging courseload than the average applicant, given that he has received .4 weighting, indicating that 40% of his classes were Honors, Advanced Level, or AP. The average kid accepted from BCC gets a .67 bump from weighting, indicating that 2/3 of their classes are honors, advanced, or AP.

When you look at the Common Data Set for UMCP the "very important" academic factors are rigor of secondary record, standardized test scores, and GPA and the "important" non-academic factors are talent/ability and first generation. They also have a priority application deadline of 11/1. I agree with you that rigor of academic program is a possibility. do think that Naviance can be misleading, though, since it doesn't permit the viewer to see any "hooks" the accepted applicants might have had - students with extraordinary talent/abilities (including athletics), first generation, etc..

With no extraordinary talent/ability and no first generation our children needed to have scores at the 75%ile almost without exception. The 75%ile for 2012 applicants at UMDCP was 690 Math and 720 verbal. They don't even list the writing score in the Common Data Set so that's not a big factor. Did your child have these scores? Did he/she apply by the priority deadline of 11/1?

The college counseling departments at the public schools rely on Naviance way too much. Students should be looking at the Common Data Set (usually found under the Institutional Research tab of a college/university's website). That's where you can really see the qualifications of who was admitted.

[Anonymous]

Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS

This is exactly why Naviance scattergram info is so important, at least for VA high schools and colleges, IMO. JMU admissions rep said kids from our local public really needed a 3.8 gpa to apply. At the time (5 years ago), VT accepted average 3.98 gpa from our public school. So in DS's experience, 3.6GPA/1800 SAT coming from a Va public HS puts you in the middle of the class. DS was denied at JMU and accepted to all the out of state schools where he applied and those were objectively "better" than JMU (higher average scores required for admission). He's very happy with the school he chose so it does all work out.
I'd check out one of the college fairs around and talk with the admissions rep from VT.

[Anonymous]

OP here. He did apply priority decision by the 11/1 deadline. He had the math score, his reading was a little below, but close.

He is Asian. Do you think that would be why? The whole B is an Asian F thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. He did apply priority decision by the 11/1 deadline. He had the math score, his reading was a little below, but close.

He is Asian. Do you think that would be why? The whole B is an Asian F thing?

Quite a lot has been written about Asian American facing tougher admissions standards than others. So, yes, that could very possibly be a contributing factor.

[Anonymous]

Asian is the new White in this area. Can I say that without offending anyone? It's no longer a minority (and I'm sure you've heard Asians are the majority race at the uber competitive Thomas Jefferson STEM magnet in Virginia).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS

This is exactly why Naviance scattergram info is so important, at least for VA high schools and colleges, IMO. JMU admissions rep said kids from our local public really needed a 3.8 gpa to apply. At the time (5 years ago), VT accepted average 3.98 gpa from our public school. So in DS's experience, 3.6GPA/1800 SAT coming from a Va public HS puts you in the middle of the class. DS was denied at JMU and accepted to all the out of state schools where he applied and those were objectively "better" than JMU (higher average scores required for admission). He's very happy with the school he chose so it does all work out.
I'd check out one of the college fairs around and talk with the admissions rep from VT.

It would be interesting to look at the Common Data Set for comparison.

I have heard, though, that the dynamic at play at the VA state colleges and universities is that they could fill all their spots from Fairfax and Arlington counties if admissions were based on scores and GPA alone. So yes kids from northern VA (unless they have a "hook") are probably held to a higher standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does the Common Data Set break down where the students are from? We are new to the college scene (our oldest is a HS sophomore) and ODC really wants to go to VA Tech. If we look at the statistics from the school (I haven't looked at CDS- more global stats) he is a shoe in, but if we look at the stats from students getting in from his HS, he is in the middle. Plus, he wants to go to the Engineering College and that is supposed to be more competitive- but I haven't scene scores/GPAs... broken down by College for Tech )or others schools) either. We did notice that the GPA for early action(?) was .2 lower than the average overall for his HS

This is exactly why Naviance scattergram info is so important, at least for VA high schools and colleges, IMO. JMU admissions rep said kids from our local public really needed a 3.8 gpa to apply. At the time (5 years ago), VT accepted average 3.98 gpa from our public school. So in DS's experience, 3.6GPA/1800 SAT coming from a Va public HS puts you in the middle of the class. DS was denied at JMU and accepted to all the out of state schools where he applied and those were objectively "better" than JMU (higher average scores required for admission). He's very happy with the school he chose so it does all work out.
I'd check out one of the college fairs around and talk with the admissions rep from VT.

It would be interesting to look at the Common Data Set for comparison.

I have heard, though, that the dynamic at play at the VA state colleges and universities is that they could fill all their spots from Fairfax and Arlington counties if admissions were based on scores and GPA alone. So yes kids from northern VA (unless they have a "hook") are probably held to a higher standard.

The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

[Anonymous]

OP you might find this Op-ed in the NYTs interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/20/opinion/asians-too-smart-for-their-own-good.html?_r=0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

We did the pre paid tuition too and the only problem I have with going out of state is the extra $100k+ it costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

We did the pre paid tuition too and the only problem I have with going out of state is the extra $100k+ it costs.

For an out of state (OOS) public college, we found there's "only" a $40-$50,000 difference. Really the only saving grace is that they can get into a much better school OOS than the ones they can get into in VA (talking about this area's "average" kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

We did the pre paid tuition too and the only problem I have with going out of state is the extra $100k+ it costs.

For an out of state (OOS) public college, we found there's "only" a $40-$50,000 difference. Really the only saving grace is that they can get into a much better school OOS than the ones they can get into in VA (talking about this area's "average" kids).

That is comparing current in state tuition costs to out of state costs. Since we bought the pre paid tuition in 2000 or 2001, the difference is greater. We will only get about $25-$30k out of the pre paid tuition if our DC goes out of state. Looking at Perdue (an Engineering School I have seen several NOVA students attend that couldn't get into VT), the out of state tuition is $29k, so we would have to come up with three more years or closer to $90k and that is based on this years rates, not what they will be when our DCs actually get to the college. So, we are planning on at least $100k additional costs to go out of state.

[Anonymous]

That is $100k for each DC. We have two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The admissions reps from several of the top colleges have said this publicly and unapologetically. It's a bit shocking to hear at first (for us, in DS's sophomore year when we figured out that despite our moving to the "best" school pyramid when he was in kindergarten and buying the VA pre-paid tuition when he was an infant) but soon you realize that a top VA college is not in your kid's future and you look and find that there are colleges beyond VA's borders.

We did the pre paid tuition too and the only problem I have with going out of state is the extra $100k+ it costs.

For an out of state (OOS) public college, we found there's "only" a $40-$50,000 difference. Really the only saving grace is that they can get into a much better school OOS than the ones they can get into in VA (talking about this area's "average" kids).

Not quite sure how you meant it, but to clarify on the figures - and to point out that out-of-state is simply unsustainable for many now, the different is $6-$9K for tuition for VA instate x 4 years (if lucky) = $36,000 plus room and board x 4 years. (We are close enough to the university, that if necessary, DC could commute). To attend my old so-so alma mater (including room and board) is $56K a year x standard five years to finish (need to do a year abroad, can't get necessary classes, etc.) = $280,000 plus four or five years of air travel. Yes, many colleges hand out some financial aid but it is a drop in the bucket. And we are boring middle class white people.

[Anonymous]

Oh. Gosh. Forgot. We also have three kids. And one will still be in private school at $30K for the next four years. Pile it on!