how to avoid raising spoiled children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the (first) 13:10 poster, and like I said, I really wasn't trying to point the finger at Mom here. With your further explanation, I suspect Dad is the problem. I would address it on two fronts: 1) I'd talk to your husband about watching his behavior in front of his son. (Better yet, I'd tell him I didn't like it and I'd rather he work on it altogether!). 2) When you see your husband acting in a self-centered way (in front of your son), either raise it immediately (with both present -- e.g., "DH, I know you're frustrated, but there is absolutely no need to yell at the repairman's secretary. She has no control over his schedule and was just calling to relay a message), or raise it later with your son privately (DS, when Daddy yelled at that woman on the phone, do you know why he did that? He was frustrated, but that doesn't make it OK to yell...)

That's how I'd address it. But I really do think this behavior is LEARNED... not genetically predisposed. You can still work on it with your son.

I agree with PPs approach. I would also emphasize that one VERY important message to convey is that Dad should respect Mom. My husband occassionally uses an "unkind tone" with me. Over 10 years of marriage and when the kids aren't around, I'm often inclined to snipe right back and move on. However, now that I have a preschool daughter, I've pointed out that he's teaching her that it's ok for her future boyfriends to talk that way to her. Now, if he loses his cool in front of the kids (as we probably all do occassionally), I make a point of saying "I don't appreciate your tone, that's not the we should talk to eachother." I feel like I can't go to great lengths to teach DD manners and correct her unkindness and let DH's slide.

[Anonymous]

Regarding the bratty 5 year-old. I've observed one neighborhood child that sounds like yours. In his case, I think he's looking for limits. His parents seem well-mannered and well-meaning but uncomfortable with laying down the law. He's allowed to act out 5 times before there is finally a consequence. As a result, it seems he's testing, testing, testing and learning that he can get away with name-calling, hair-pulling and other completely obnoxious behaviors.

I would consider whether your being too tolerant of behavior that should not be tolerated. Adopting a zero tolerance (i.e. it AWLAYS get's an immediate consequence) to one or two behaviors you want to target to change might just be the ticket. For instance children that are pestering their playmates need to learn that that behavior ends the playdate immediately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Letting your child know from day one that they are not the head of the household and that they are merely a member of the family. We knew fully well growing up that our parents were in charge and we were just members of the household with our own set of responsibility. So many kids now rule their home, boss their parents and truly believe it's all about them. That's where the spoiling starts. IMHO, you're doing such a great disservice to your child but setting them up to fail in school and later in career, because most people in this world will spend their lives not being supreme ruler.

There is a middle ground here. No, not "supreme ruler" but not "merely" member of a family either. Membership in a family is a precious thing. Just as my child will grow to understand that families are about balancing everyone's needs, I need to consistently show him that I will take his needs and desires into account too, even if he can't always get everything he wants. I don't think I need to "show him who's boss" for him to develop a healthy respect for other people and avoid becoming spoiled.

Yes, because that's realistic and his future professors and employers will take all his needs into consideration and consult him before making any decisions.

[Anonymous]

I'm not his future employer, I am his Mom. I don't plan to be an asshole to him just so he can be prepared when others out in the world are assholes. A family SHOULD be a safe, warm place. I am not saying all should be bowing to his every whim, but a family should act like a family and care about each other. And frankly, when he becomes an employer later on, I actually DO hope that he takes the needs of his employees into account in an appropriate and balanced fashion, rather than be completely indifferent to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a problem that no one has talked about so far, which is, I do believe my 5 yr old son is spoiled. And fairly bratty. He attempts to be the Emperor of the house.

I think this goes beyond possessions, as many of you have pointed out. We're somewhere in the middle of the pack, stuff-wise.

But back to DS's worldview. While I certainly try to teach manners, compassion, respect for others, etc., I think at some point in childhood, your kids are going to be who they are going to be. I honestly believe that DS is going to be one of these people who cuts in line and merges at the last second on the highway instead of rolling along with the others during rush hour.

****Does anyone here have real, concrete advice on getting your children to INTERNALIZE care and compassion and (only when appropriate), deference? ***

I'm not talking about mouthing off = no TV. I do believe that "works" in the short term, but doesn't teach what I want to convey.

Does your DS act the same way at school, in daycare or w/a nanny as he does with you? If he's not acting like "emperor" with his teachers or daycare providers, you may already have your answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not his future employer, I am his Mom. I don't plan to be an asshole to him just so he can be prepared when others out in the world are assholes. A family SHOULD be a safe, warm place. I am not saying all should be bowing to his every whim, but a family should act like a family and care about each other. And frankly, when he becomes an employer later on, I actually DO hope that he takes the needs of his employees into account in an appropriate and balanced fashion, rather than be completely indifferent to them.

So he's a shepherd and not a sheep. He's a born leader. I find it interesting that you say when he's an employer. God forbid he should be a lowly worm pushing papers. Love and compassion are very different that establishing an hierarchy within the family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not his future employer, I am his Mom. I don't plan to be an asshole to him just so he can be prepared when others out in the world are assholes. A family SHOULD be a safe, warm place. I am not saying all should be bowing to his every whim, but a family should act like a family and care about each other. And frankly, when he becomes an employer later on, I actually DO hope that he takes the needs of his employees into account in an appropriate and balanced fashion, rather than be completely indifferent to them.

So he's a shepherd and not a sheep. He's a born leader. I find it interesting that you say when he's an employer. God forbid he should be a lowly worm pushing papers. Love and compassion are very different that establishing an hierarchy within the family.

I am confused. My original point was that things needn't always be so black and white. He's a shepherd AND a sheep, like most of us. I am both an employee (of my managers) and an employer (of my assistants). My husband and I are equal partners, but I lead when it comes to some things (family finances) and he leads with respect to other things (anything related to technology). Even within the areas of "leadership" we still consult each other or consider each other's needs. Why are you bothered by how I approach my own family? Why do I need to replicate the same hierarchy that you might choose for your family?

[Anonymous]

"I have a Ph.D. Am I wasting my skills by staying home with my kids? Just wondering, PP."

I'll answer it - probably yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not his future employer, I am his Mom. I don't plan to be an asshole to him just so he can be prepared when others out in the world are assholes. A family SHOULD be a safe, warm place. I am not saying all should be bowing to his every whim, but a family should act like a family and care about each other. And frankly, when he becomes an employer later on, I actually DO hope that he takes the needs of his employees into account in an appropriate and balanced fashion, rather than be completely indifferent to them.

AMEN!

I can't stand the whole "the world is a dark depressing place, so get used to it" attitude! What a horrible way to grow up!
There are other ways to live life and as usual - the world would be a VERY boring place if we were all the same

[Anonymous]

After reading all the posts, I just realized something. I nanny for three kids. The two youngest have been with me since the very beginning. The six year old always had a nanny,full preschool or daycare.

It is interesting that the two younger children are very respectful. They do not cry or ask for things while we are out other than the occasional cookie or something smallish.On occasion, I mean once every two months. Weekly at the grocery, they do ask for certain fruits/veggies which I think is a good thing.

Now the older child is a completely different story. We cannot go anywhere without the "Can I have?" He is also completely disrespectful and rude.His parents always shower him with gifts. If they say no, they do not stick to it. He whines and whines. If they take it away, he gets it right back a minute later. If they go away on a business trip or a mini vacation they bring backe VERY expensive gifts for him.

I can tell him to do something and it is why? I can take his DS/toy and it is I'm telling or My mom will give it back to me. There is no responsibility at all.

He is so spoiled! I dont think they get that this child is going to be hellacious in eight years! His parents and I have mutual friends. The "friends" cannot believe how spoiled he is. They do not understand why the other two are so great!

I wish there was a way to break him but there is no backing me up..it is a huge pain...to say the least.sigh...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: why would I employ a PhD to waste her skills watching my kids?

Anonymous wrote:

I have a Ph.D. Am I wasting my skills by staying home with my kids? Just wondering, PP.

I hate to hijack an otherwise useful thread, but I can't help myself from rising to the bait. I'm the original "Why would I employ a PhD ..." writer, and unless your PhD is in raising children, then yes, I think you're wasting your skills. My "proof" is that lots of children of parents without PhDs (e.g. myself) grow up to get them and/or other advanced degrees, so it doesn't take a lot of education to raise a well educated kid. And thank goodness or there'd be no upward mobility in our country. Whereas presumably there are jobs requiring the specific skills you acquired in school that couldn't be done by someone without a PhD. My PhD came with substantial public investment in the form of federal research grants. It would seem a rather selfish contribution to our society to devote my attention solely to my own children in return. Plus, as a woman, I hate the attitude from colleagues that women aren't good hires because they're likely to drop out of the workforce to care for their children. But who can blame them for this attitude, when it's true? Well educated women who stay home with their children deprive society of their skills and they encourage the attitudes that lead to workplace discrimination.

[Anonymous]

It's not quite that simple. A lot of those well-educated women are the ones volunteering in the schools to help everyone's kids. They're using their skills teaching Sunday School, sitting on non-profit boards, leading girl scouts and coordinating school fund-raisers. Many most definately contribute to society in ways that extends beyond their children. Just becuase it's non-compensated work does NOT mean it's less valuable. Of course if SAHM's did nothing but focus on their children, your analysis might be right. But that's not typically the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not quite that simple. A lot of those well-educated women are the ones volunteering in the schools to help everyone's kids. They're using their skills teaching Sunday School, sitting on non-profit boards, leading girl scouts and coordinating school fund-raisers. Many most definately contribute to society in ways that extends beyond their children. Just becuase it's non-compensated work does NOT mean it's less valuable. Of course if SAHM's did nothing but focus on their children, your analysis might be right. But that's not typically the case.

Not her point. If taxes via federal grants go to train someone to be a neurophysicist, then none of the above, valuable though they may be, are a return on that particular investment. I don't really have a dog in this race, just wanted to make sure the points are clear.

[Anonymous]

OP, to your comment about your child saying things like "if that breaks, we can get another one," we're going through that now, too. Our answer, however, is no, you will not. We're trying to teach the value of money by teaching the value of things, as in you take care of it and if it breaks, you do without. Of course you have to model that in your own life. I broke a favorite strand of beads the other day and caught myself before I said something like "I'll have to replace it" in front on my daughter!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not quite that simple. A lot of those well-educated women are the ones volunteering in the schools to help everyone's kids. They're using their skills teaching Sunday School, sitting on non-profit boards, leading girl scouts and coordinating school fund-raisers. Many most definately contribute to society in ways that extends beyond their children. Just becuase it's non-compensated work does NOT mean it's less valuable. Of course if SAHM's did nothing but focus on their children, your analysis might be right. But that's not typically the case.

Not her point. If taxes via federal grants go to train someone to be a neurophysicist, then none of the above, valuable though they may be, are a return on that particular investment. I don't really have a dog in this race, just wanted to make sure the points are clear.

I guess it would depend on what the skill set was. I must have missed where she said she was a neurophysicist. Take lawyers for instance. Is it really a better return on federally-subsidized loans and grants for lawyers to make $$$$ defending corporations. Many could arguably make a much less "selfish" contribution by staying home and using their skills to help get a start-up non-profit off the ground. Yes, I know a PhD in a different field might not lend itself to probono work in the same way. But I don't think you can say assume society not getting a return on its investment if a highly educated professional opts out.