Tangential Spin-Off from Kitchen Pass thread: " I'm not a feminist"

[Anonymous]

Count me as another feminist. From all the tales my mother told me of her life in the 60s and 70s, and some of my own experiences, there's no way I wouldn't fight for women to have equal rights and value. My mother had to move home to her parents when my father was drafted, even though she was a married woman with a great job, because "good girls don't live alone." When she was in college, a professor gave her an F on an English paper, writing on it that the paper was perfectly fine, but he didn't think girls should be in college. When my parents when to apply for a mortgage for a house, the bank wouldn't consider her (very high) income because she might get pregnant and quit.

When "I" was in elementary school, one of the kids' fathers gave a little talk about his career as an airline pilot and how he got there. He handed out plastic wings to each kid afterward, giving boys the pilot's wings and girls the stewardess' wings. I asked for the pilot's wings instead because I wanted to go home and pretend I was a pilot. He laughed at me (not meanly), and said girls can't grow up to be pilots, only boys.

When I got my first professional job at age 20, I was constantly asked by much older men if I was one of those "career girls." And I won't go into how much verbal and physical sexual harassment I suffered. No, getting a tongue in my ear from some 60 year old man is not my idea of fun. These things were NOT the exception. They were the norm.

Things aren't perfect. But don't send me back to those times (and it wasn't that long ago).

[Anonymous]

I'm a radical 1970s style antiracist anticlassist feminist who busts the stereotypes in terms of how my personal life looks from the outside (husband, baby, house in the suburbs). I am lucky to have found a truly feminist man and we have a great partnership, home, and friendship.

There are many political versions of feminism, and liberal feminism is most common because it's the least threatening to the status quo -- the 50-50 type where women want to be treated equally to men of their same social class. I do find it interesting that so many people on here use that strand of feminism to attack other women for choosing not to work outside the home; back in the day, radical feminists did whatever they could to support themselves as much outside of the system as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that those who are bemoaning the loss of the good old days when they were only responsible for the household, etc. etc. have largely forgotten the harm that was done to women in those days and the major benefits we get from the world having changed. I think of my aunt who not too many years before I went to law school graduated from law school near the top of her class but could not work for a law firm AT ALL because none of the big law firms would hire women. Period. Her career was limited solely because she was a woman (and a single one at that so no issues with children or family at that point). We also forget that the world then was such that women who wanted to work and didn't like having their world limited to the domestic sphere were simply stuck. My mom for one was not at all happy with being at home full time but it was only the changes that happened between the mid 60s and mid 70s (i.e., the feminist movement) that let her feel like she could go to work when her kids were in school. Until there was feminism, women (especially middle class women because poor women always had to work at very limited and low wage jobs) were forced to stay at home whether they wanted to or not, whether it was the best thing for the family or not, and were precluded from doing lots of jobs simply because they were women (or sometimes because they were married women, or pregnant women, or moms).

Now each family has a choice about whether a woman works or not and women who choose to work are not articially restricted in the jobs they can choose from. It's not perfect, but it is better. To the extent that women end up doing more, that is an issue that only will improve to the extent women demand that it does and men begin to expect that it is so. I know for me, while I certainly do more than I did when I didn't have kids, I can't really say that I do mucn more than my husband does. That is what our expectation has always been and it works for us. Without the feminists I could never do what I do and earn what I earn and our family would be much worse off for me being at home and my husband bearing all the responsibility for supporting our family.

Here Here - nice explanation!!

[Anonymous]

Thank goodness for all the posters who say they are feminists, I was getting worried when I read the first few posts. I, too, think it might be time to change the term "feminists" because some people stereotype when they hear the term. I just can't fathom anyone, especially women, who don't value the huge gains women have made in this country. We have more to do and part of it is training our husbands, if it's not too late, to do more with kids and house, as is evident from the many posts on DCUM. I love the poster who said she is helping to raise a son who our girls will be happy to marry because he will be willing and able to be a 50-50 partner. That inspires me to ask more of my sons.
Unfortunatley I get subtle vibes from my husbands family that having my son babysit, cook, do his laundry etc is less valuable than teaching him more "manly" skills and that it is a little weird and his friends will think he's weird. I have to stand up and do what I want and what I know is best for him and society.

My mother was a wonderful feminist. I don't think she ever felt completely happy not working outside the home. (Although of course for those who do, that great. The point is that women have a choice.) When my father died she went back to college, raised four children on her own, earned a very respectable income and had a career that greatly helped many people. She loved working and society benefitted from her wisdom and hard work. I benefitted from seeing a strong female who didn't give up, although she faced big challenges, who excelled in a "mans world." Who thrived financially on her own after her husband died. It taught me that I don't want to be completely dependent finacially on someone (death and divorce happen frequently).

When my father died, all their money and assets were controlled by an executor (not her) so she had to ask the "man at the bank" for money whenever she needed anything. When she first moved to DC she wanted to buy a house. He said that it was too expensive and he wouldn't give her the money. It was her money. Imagine your husband not trusting you with your joint money.

There were literally millions of ways that women were treated as second class citizens and not given the respect they deserved before the women's movement. I don't think that child rearing and homemaking is still given adequate respect. Think of all the smart, hard working talented women that have contributed greatly to our society. Law schools, medical school and Ph.d. programs, in many cases are dominated by women. Do we really want to hold these women back and tell them they can't contribute to society or be successful.
Yes, unless their spouse steps up, like Sandra Day O'Connors and others, it is a lot more work for women, but if you enjoy your career it is worth it. If you don't want to WOTH, that's fine too, but don't keep other women who do down. Also, the feminist movement was not just about careers, it was about banking, birth control, sexual harrasment, access to sports for girls, self worth and self esteem for girls and women and general respect for the "weaker sex."

[Anonymous]

Many women feel disconnected from the term, if not the philosophy. I think this is in large part because the term has been coopted by polarizing, controversial figures with whom some of us see nothing in common. I'm a feminist and so is my husband. But neither of us identify with many famous feminists. While I have no problem with folks claiming the label for themselves, I DO have a problem with someone stating that the only way to be a feminist is to adopt certain rigid ideals. The recent rant by Erica Jong against her perception of "attachment parenting" comes to mind. In the piece, she says that women who parent this way are victims, and it is anti-feminist. But who says Erica Jong gets to decide if someone's parenting principals meet the feminist litmus test or not? As far as I'm concerned, a feminist is concerned about women's rights, and not women's obligations, necessarily. By that I mean every woman should have the right to work outside the home, but that in itself is not a requirement for the coveted (or not coveted) feminist badge. Books like "Get to Work" repulse me, because they are arguing that women must be in the work force as if that is best for every person, every situation. What rot! If you want to stay home and keep house, do so. But be sure you and your children have taken steps to protect yourself financially, if you do so. FWIW, I am a working mom. But I don't think that is the only way one should be.

In summary, the feminist movement is sometimes undermined by the rabble rousing of the less likable among its proponents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank goodness for all the posters who say they are feminists, I was getting worried when I read the first few posts. I, too, think it might be time to change the term "feminists" because some people stereotype when they hear the term. I just can't fathom anyone, especially women, who don't value the huge gains women have made in this country. We have more to do and part of it is training our husbands, if it's not too late, to do more with kids and house, as is evident from the many posts on DCUM. I love the poster who said she is helping to raise a son who our girls will be happy to marry because he will be willing and able to be a 50-50 partner. That inspires me to ask more of my sons.
Unfortunatley I get subtle vibes from my husbands family that having my son babysit, cook, do his laundry etc is less valuable than teaching him more "manly" skills and that it is a little weird and his friends will think he's weird. I have to stand up and do what I want and what I know is best for him and society.

My mother was a wonderful feminist. I don't think she ever felt completely happy not working outside the home. (Although of course for those who do, that great. The point is that women have a choice.) When my father died she went back to college, raised four children on her own, earned a very respectable income and had a career that greatly helped many people. She loved working and society benefitted from her wisdom and hard work. I benefitted from seeing a strong female who didn't give up, although she faced big challenges, who excelled in a "mans world." Who thrived financially on her own after her husband died. It taught me that I don't want to be completely dependent finacially on someone (death and divorce happen frequently).

When my father died, all their money and assets were controlled by an executor (not her) so she had to ask the "man at the bank" for money whenever she needed anything. When she first moved to DC she wanted to buy a house. He said that it was too expensive and he wouldn't give her the money. It was her money. Imagine your husband not trusting you with your joint money.

There were literally millions of ways that women were treated as second class citizens and not given the respect they deserved before the women's movement. I don't think that child rearing and homemaking is still given adequate respect. Think of all the smart, hard working talented women that have contributed greatly to our society. Law schools, medical school and Ph.d. programs, in many cases are dominated by women. Do we really want to hold these women back and tell them they can't contribute to society or be successful.
Yes, unless their spouse steps up, like Sandra Day O'Connors and others, it is a lot more work for women, but if you enjoy your career it is worth it. If you don't want to WOTH, that's fine too, but don't keep other women who do down. Also, the feminist movement was not just about careers, it was about banking, birth control, sexual harrasment, access to sports for girls, self worth and self esteem for girls and women and general respect for the "weaker sex."

13:55 here. Agree with this completely!

[Anonymous]

Personally, I don't think we need a new word or label to replace "feminist". Those of us who believe in equality, respect and freedom of choice (including the choice to be a SAHM, WOHM, AP, CIO, whatever) just need to describe what we belive and tie it to the word "feminist".

By defining the term and claiming it as our own, we naturally take our place within the broad spectrum of feminist views that are at the core about equality, respect, freedom and choice. It's ok that there are more radical people under the "feminist" umbrella, too. There's room for us all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't want equality. I just want to burn the women who burned their bras that day...

I only wish I could just stay home, be with the kids and have no stress while DH works and brings us the big bucks.

Now back to reality. Bye.

It's one thing to wish you could stay at home.

It's entirely another thing to wish that it is the only choice women should have.

Now back to self-determination.

[Anonymous]

I think many women say "I'm not a feminist but ..." because many self-described feminists identify feminism with a particular set of liberal beliefs. For example, I'm a WOHM with a career I love, and my DH is the one who makes career sacrifices for child-raising, because he makes less money. I work in a male-dominated profession, and believe I am doing great at it. I personally believe I am living a very "feminist" life. That said, I am politically conservative / libertarian, I'm a pro-life Catholic, and disagree with a significant percentage of the political positions of NOW. So you tell me, am I, as I believe, a feminist, or do I have to say "I'm not a feminist, but . . ." If your answer is that my non-liberal beliefs disqualify me from being a feminist, then there you go, that is why many women decline to idetify themselves as "feminist".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think many women say "I'm not a feminist but ..." because many self-described feminists identify feminism with a particular set of liberal beliefs. For example, I'm a WOHM with a career I love, and my DH is the one who makes career sacrifices for child-raising, because he makes less money. I work in a male-dominated profession, and believe I am doing great at it. I personally believe I am living a very "feminist" life. That said, I am politically conservative / libertarian, I'm a pro-life Catholic, and disagree with a significant percentage of the political positions of NOW. So you tell me, am I, as I believe, a feminist, or do I have to say "I'm not a feminist, but . . ." If your answer is that my non-liberal beliefs disqualify me from being a feminist, then there you go, that is why many women decline to idetify themselves as "feminist".

Yet the efforts of liberal feminists allowed you to work and excel in your male-dominated profession, as I'm sure you recognize.

[Anonymous]

It was never the case that most women stayed home. Most may have aspired to, but it has always been a luxury (except on the farm, where everyone technically "stayed home" and everyone worked their asses off).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think many women say "I'm not a feminist but ..." because many self-described feminists identify feminism with a particular set of liberal beliefs. For example, I'm a WOHM with a career I love, and my DH is the one who makes career sacrifices for child-raising, because he makes less money. I work in a male-dominated profession, and believe I am doing great at it. I personally believe I am living a very "feminist" life. That said, I am politically conservative / libertarian, I'm a pro-life Catholic, and disagree with a significant percentage of the political positions of NOW. So you tell me, am I, as I believe, a feminist, or do I have to say "I'm not a feminist, but . . ." If your answer is that my non-liberal beliefs disqualify me from being a feminist, then there you go, that is why many women decline to idetify themselves as "feminist".

You ARE a feminist. Feminism is about equal rights, not politics. Sarah Palin is a feminist, even though she is very conservative. All women who believe in equal rights are feminists.

[Anonymous]

I would disagree that Sarah Palin is a feminist. Feminism is about equal rights for all women- women of color, gay women, poor women, all constituencies that would be harmed by Palin's policymaking.

[Anonymous]

Is McCain anti-feminism? He said it would be too costly to require businesses to give equal pay for equal work. I find that funny coming from a guy with a sugar mama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think many women say "I'm not a feminist but ..." because many self-described feminists identify feminism with a particular set of liberal beliefs. For example, I'm a WOHM with a career I love, and my DH is the one who makes career sacrifices for child-raising, because he makes less money. I work in a male-dominated profession, and believe I am doing great at it. I personally believe I am living a very "feminist" life. That said, I am politically conservative / libertarian, I'm a pro-life Catholic, and disagree with a significant percentage of the political positions of NOW. So you tell me, am I, as I believe, a feminist, or do I have to say "I'm not a feminist, but . . ." If your answer is that my non-liberal beliefs disqualify me from being a feminist, then there you go, that is why many women decline to idetify themselves as "feminist".

I posted earlier (annoyed with Erica Jong). It's ironic that you have problems identifying as a feminist but not as a libertarian, which I would say is equally pro choice. I'm not trying to pick on you at all (as a liberal who is also somewhat pro-life). I just want to point out that it isn't as easy to say "I'm a feminist but..." and differentiate ourselves from the expected "party line" as expected as it is to say "I'm a liberal, but..." Instead of saying "I am a feminist but I am pro life and conservative on traditional marriage (or whatever position you espouse)" we say "I'm not a feminist but" (and then agree with something feminist.

Feminism is a dirty word to some of us, and there are lots of reasons for it.