Concerns That New Department of Education Earnings Test Could Undermine Arts, Public Service Degree Programs

[Anonymous]

Since it is at the college level, it seems like larger universities could just move their education and arts programs under a wider umbrella to improve the stats (School of Fine Arts gets folded into a program within the School of Arts and Sciences, for example).

Seems hard to offer/decline financial aid at the student major level because kids change majors. In most schools a kid can apply as a Math major and transfer to Studio Arts if they have that program. Or vice-versa, or double-major.

[Anonymous]

I am a scientist but I don't think that every student should major in science/technology.

Maybe the solution is not to discontinue these majors but rather to value and pay public servants, educators, and others more appropriately.

Even during the Great Depression, our federal government recognized the value of humanities and arts, and found ways to support them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a scientist but I don't think that every student should major in science/technology.

Maybe the solution is not to discontinue these majors but rather to value and pay public servants, educators, and others more appropriately.

Even during the Great Depression, our federal government recognized the value of humanities and arts, and found ways to support them.

+1. At the college level, the solution is to fund public universities (at least) well enough that no one needs debt to study these things. Public funding for public goods, even if the financial return on investment isn't there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a scientist but I don't think that every student should major in science/technology.

Maybe the solution is not to discontinue these majors but rather to value and pay public servants, educators, and others more appropriately.

Even during the Great Depression, our federal government recognized the value of humanities and arts, and found ways to support them.

Nothing about this announcement prevents anyone from providing grants to fund this type of education, even assuming salaries remain low. What it does is prevent schools from using students as ATMs, then leaving the students mired in debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a scientist but I don't think that every student should major in science/technology.

Maybe the solution is not to discontinue these majors but rather to value and pay public servants, educators, and others more appropriately.

Even during the Great Depression, our federal government recognized the value of humanities and arts, and found ways to support them.

Nothing about this announcement prevents anyone from providing grants to fund this type of education, even assuming salaries remain low. What it does is prevent schools from using students as ATMs, then leaving the students mired in debt.

So then, no more computer science majors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a scientist but I don't think that every student should major in science/technology.

Maybe the solution is not to discontinue these majors but rather to value and pay public servants, educators, and others more appropriately.

Even during the Great Depression, our federal government recognized the value of humanities and arts, and found ways to support them.

Nothing about this announcement prevents anyone from providing grants to fund this type of education, even assuming salaries remain low. What it does is prevent schools from using students as ATMs, then leaving the students mired in debt.

+1 There has to be a check on how much student loan money is handed out by the government. Schools or organizations could still give people scholarships or grants to participate in these programs.

[Anonymous]

God, the people in this forum are AWFUL. Late stage capitalism in its ugliest incarnation. Some of the people posting here just have zero sense that art or education or ideas have any value to society because they don't make someone rich. These MAGA parents think their rape-y investment banker bro is contributing more to society through self-enrichment than an art teacher or public humanities professional ever could. This is why our country can't have nice things.

I have a rising senior and so have checked out this forum for tips. No more. So glad I never encounter these people in real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a scientist but I don't think that every student should major in science/technology.

Maybe the solution is not to discontinue these majors but rather to value and pay public servants, educators, and others more appropriately.

Even during the Great Depression, our federal government recognized the value of humanities and arts, and found ways to support them.

The only reason we have recordings of formerly enslaved people talking about their experiences is because the government paid historians to do this work during the Great Depression. I’ve listened to some of these recordings at the Library of Congress while doing my own research. I’ve seen and appreciated the WPA-funded murals showing the history of indigenous people in the US at Griffith Park Observatory. Documenting history, creating art—a healthy culture understands that this is critical work and believes in paying people to do it.

A sclerotic, fascist-friendly culture seeks to stamp this work out by shutting off the paths for historians and artists and philosophers to exist in the first place. Those of you cheering this on, claiming that low pay for this work is evidence that the work isn’t valuable, are making clear how sick our culture is. You think you’re being virtuous, but you won’t like where we end up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God, the people in this forum are AWFUL. Late stage capitalism in its ugliest incarnation. Some of the people posting here just have zero sense that art or education or ideas have any value to society because they don't make someone rich. These MAGA parents think their rape-y investment banker bro is contributing more to society through self-enrichment than an art teacher or public humanities professional ever could. This is why our country can't have nice things.

I have a rising senior and so have checked out this forum for tips. No more. So glad I never encounter these people in real life.

+1 And they don't even realize it. They are probably "educated" in that they have degrees, but they don't have a well-rounded education. It's really sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a scientist but I don't think that every student should major in science/technology.

Maybe the solution is not to discontinue these majors but rather to value and pay public servants, educators, and others more appropriately.

Even during the Great Depression, our federal government recognized the value of humanities and arts, and found ways to support them.

The only reason we have recordings of formerly enslaved people talking about their experiences is because the government paid historians to do this work during the Great Depression. I’ve listened to some of these recordings at the Library of Congress while doing my own research. I’ve seen and appreciated the WPA-funded murals showing the history of indigenous people in the US at Griffith Park Observatory. Documenting history, creating art—a healthy culture understands that this is critical work and believes in paying people to do it.

A sclerotic, fascist-friendly culture seeks to stamp this work out by shutting off the paths for historians and artists and philosophers to exist in the first place. Those of you cheering this on, claiming that low pay for this work is evidence that the work isn’t valuable, are making clear how sick our culture is. You think you’re being virtuous, but you won’t like where we end up.

The WPA is such a vision of an America that could have been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a scientist but I don't think that every student should major in science/technology.

Maybe the solution is not to discontinue these majors but rather to value and pay public servants, educators, and others more appropriately.

Even during the Great Depression, our federal government recognized the value of humanities and arts, and found ways to support them.

The only reason we have recordings of formerly enslaved people talking about their experiences is because the government paid historians to do this work during the Great Depression. I’ve listened to some of these recordings at the Library of Congress while doing my own research. I’ve seen and appreciated the WPA-funded murals showing the history of indigenous people in the US at Griffith Park Observatory. Documenting history, creating art—a healthy culture understands that this is critical work and believes in paying people to do it.

A sclerotic, fascist-friendly culture seeks to stamp this work out by shutting off the paths for historians and artists and philosophers to exist in the first place. Those of you cheering this on, claiming that low pay for this work is evidence that the work isn’t valuable, are making clear how sick our culture is. You think you’re being virtuous, but you won’t like where we end up.

The WPA is such a vision of an America that could have been.

WPA workers were paid. That was the whole point. Working for the WPA made them better off.

You’re arguing that people should take out loans to do WPA-style work, so that they get poorer and poorer.

Can you not see the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a scientist but I don't think that every student should major in science/technology.

Maybe the solution is not to discontinue these majors but rather to value and pay public servants, educators, and others more appropriately.

Even during the Great Depression, our federal government recognized the value of humanities and arts, and found ways to support them.

The only reason we have recordings of formerly enslaved people talking about their experiences is because the government paid historians to do this work during the Great Depression. I’ve listened to some of these recordings at the Library of Congress while doing my own research. I’ve seen and appreciated the WPA-funded murals showing the history of indigenous people in the US at Griffith Park Observatory. Documenting history, creating art—a healthy culture understands that this is critical work and believes in paying people to do it.

A sclerotic, fascist-friendly culture seeks to stamp this work out by shutting off the paths for historians and artists and philosophers to exist in the first place. Those of you cheering this on, claiming that low pay for this work is evidence that the work isn’t valuable, are making clear how sick our culture is. You think you’re being virtuous, but you won’t like where we end up.

The WPA is such a vision of an America that could have been.

WPA workers were paid. That was the whole point. Working for the WPA made them better off.

You’re arguing that people should take out loans to do WPA-style work, so that they get poorer and poorer.

Can you not see the difference?

Can you read? You're not responding to anything I actually said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a scientist but I don't think that every student should major in science/technology.

Maybe the solution is not to discontinue these majors but rather to value and pay public servants, educators, and others more appropriately.

Even during the Great Depression, our federal government recognized the value of humanities and arts, and found ways to support them.

This would be the logical, helpful solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God, the people in this forum are AWFUL. Late stage capitalism in its ugliest incarnation. Some of the people posting here just have zero sense that art or education or ideas have any value to society because they don't make someone rich. These MAGA parents think their rape-y investment banker bro is contributing more to society through self-enrichment than an art teacher or public humanities professional ever could. This is why our country can't have nice things.

I have a rising senior and so have checked out this forum for tips. No more. So glad I never encounter these people in real life.

+1 And they don't even realize it. They are probably "educated" in that they have degrees, but they don't have a well-rounded education. It's really sad.

You equate not wanting to pay for something with thinking something shouldn’t exist.

Nobody is saying the arts shouldn’t exist, & nobody is stopping you and your friends from funding them out of your own pockets.

I have 3 degrees in the humanities, & it never occurred to me that the taxpayers were responsible for ensuring I had a chance to learn about Plato or Samuel Johnson.

[Anonymous]

We can't let China beat us! According to Google AI:

"In the United States, about 4% to 5% of all undergraduate degrees are awarded in the visual and performing arts. In contrast, creative arts majors in China account for roughly 10% to 11% of gaokao (university entrance exam) applicants."

You read that right: China, the land of STEM, *already* graduates twice the proportion of creatives as we do. We graduate many more liberal arts majors, but they produce many more painters, potters, zither players, dancers, etc. This will put us further behind.