Has marriage changed over time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of fathers out there raising kids they think are biologically theirs as well. It isn't just men that cheat.

This. In my family, this. Except my grandfather knew and was ok with it because he wanted a family. Having an affair with a friend was basically IVF in the 50s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

That's your perspective. My perspective is I feel sad for you. 45 yr marriage here. A happy marriage with children and grandchildren. You will never ever ever get to feel the pride and joy of having a marriage of unconditional love for spouse/children/grandkids. You spew the same poison that young people do on social media so I guess you've done the men of the world a favor by not marrying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

That's your perspective. My perspective is I feel sad for you. 45 yr marriage here. A happy marriage with children and grandchildren. You will never ever ever get to feel the pride and joy of having a marriage of unconditional love for spouse/children/grandkids. You spew the same poison that young people do on social media so I guess you've done the men of the world a favor by not marrying.

You may be married but you sound insufferable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

That's your perspective. My perspective is I feel sad for you. 45 yr marriage here. A happy marriage with children and grandchildren. You will never ever ever get to feel the pride and joy of having a marriage of unconditional love for spouse/children/grandkids. You spew the same poison that young people do on social media so I guess you've done the men of the world a favor by not marrying.

Also, and I say this as a happily married person, you do not have to be married to experience deep love in relationships. That’s ridiculous. I have many elderly relatives who chose being single and they are healthy, happy, and thriving. They never had to suffer through a bad marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

That's your perspective. My perspective is I feel sad for you. 45 yr marriage here. A happy marriage with children and grandchildren. You will never ever ever get to feel the pride and joy of having a marriage of unconditional love for spouse/children/grandkids. You spew the same poison that young people do on social media so I guess you've done the men of the world a favor by not marrying.

Key point being Happy Marriage. Else being single is way better than unhappily married

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

Girllllllll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

That's your perspective. My perspective is I feel sad for you. 45 yr marriage here. A happy marriage with children and grandchildren. You will never ever ever get to feel the pride and joy of having a marriage of unconditional love for spouse/children/grandkids. You spew the same poison that young people do on social media so I guess you've done the men of the world a favor by not marrying.

Key point being Happy Marriage. Else being single is way better than unhappily married

Look at how enraged pp is by the idea that her choices aren’t right for other people- I doubt she is actually happy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of fathers out there raising kids they think are biologically theirs as well. It isn't just men that cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Women were beholden to their husbands and trapped with them because of finances. Now the idea of adultery is even more absurd. You expect me to work full time and take care of my kids and tolerate cheating? No thank you, I have other options.

What are your options?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women were beholden to their husbands and trapped with them because of finances. Now the idea of adultery is even more absurd. You expect me to work full time and take care of my kids and tolerate cheating? No thank you, I have other options.

What are your options?

I can live and support myself without a man.

Happily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I’m not a troll. As a side note it’s annoying that whenever anyone tries to have an open conversation here someone calls them a troll.

My grandma worked, but was not wealthy. I don’t think she has any regrets about not divorcing, because she enjoyed the big family that came from her marriage.

I’m not saying others should do the same thing. I was just thinking out loud about the tradeoffs we tend to make today.

Did your grandfather continuously cheat throughout their marriage?

Not that I’m aware of. Though on a personal level, I would say I don’t think I could tolerate what my Grandfather did if I was in my Grandmother’s shoes. Particularly the fact that she had a new baby would make forgiveness a non-option.

Even though I couldn’t personally move past it, on some level I wish I could. Because I consider my Grandmother to have one in the long run by having a large loving family.

NP. I can relate to your feelings, OP. My grandfather was a volatile alcoholic in the early years of my grandparents' marriage. He eventually got sober in his early 40s and became a much better person. By the time I was old enough to remember, their marriage seemed quite happy and they loved spending time with us grandkids as a big happy family. Later, my grandfather was a devoted caregiver when my grandmother developed dementia. In the long run, her decision to stay makes sense, but many people nowadays would say she should have divorced him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women were beholden to their husbands and trapped with them because of finances. Now the idea of adultery is even more absurd. You expect me to work full time and take care of my kids and tolerate cheating? No thank you, I have other options.

What are your options?

I can live and support myself without a man.

Happily.

Most women say the same until not. You are no different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think we have unrealistic expectations for modern marriage. We want a driven career person with a high salary, a great lover, our best friend, our confidante who stimulates us intellectually and maintains sexiness and attractiveness forever.

They also need to he good at cleaning, cooking, caregiving, childcare, etc etc

[Anonymous]

As long as women are chasing money, height and looks, they'll keep compromising on traits like kindness, compatibility, ethical standards etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women were beholden to their husbands and trapped with them because of finances. Now the idea of adultery is even more absurd. You expect me to work full time and take care of my kids and tolerate cheating? No thank you, I have other options.

What are your options?

I can live and support myself without a man.

Happily.

Most women say the same until not. You are no different.

I don’t know where you get that from. My mother was a single mom and she was 100% better off without my lunatic father. A lot of women in her family in her generation chose never to get married and now that they are in their 70s, you can visibly see how much more vibrant and healthy the unmarried women are compared to the widowed/married.

I am in love with my husband but if he treated me badly I would show him the door.