Has marriage changed over time?

[Anonymous]

I was talking to my grandmother about her marriage to my grandpa. She was very honest with me and told me about my grandpa having a mistress when she was in her 20s with 3 kids including a new baby.

I was shocked. I never thought my grandpa would do something like that. I have fond memories of my childhood with the both of them.

It made me wonder do we currently have unrealistic expectations of marriage? If someone posted my grandma’s story here for advice, everyone here would say divorce.

[Anonymous]

Women were beholden to their husbands and trapped with them because of finances. Now the idea of adultery is even more absurd. You expect me to work full time and take care of my kids and tolerate cheating? No thank you, I have other options.

[Anonymous]

I would never encourage my daughters to marry unless they wanted kids. They also have a trust that said husband can never touch. Money is freedom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was talking to my grandmother about her marriage to my grandpa. She was very honest with me and told me about my grandpa having a mistress when she was in her 20s with 3 kids including a new baby.

I was shocked. I never thought my grandpa would do something like that. I have fond memories of my childhood with the both of them.

It made me wonder do we currently have unrealistic expectations of marriage? If someone posted my grandma’s story here for advice, everyone here would say divorce.

Troll

[Anonymous]

Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was talking to my grandmother about her marriage to my grandpa. She was very honest with me and told me about my grandpa having a mistress when she was in her 20s with 3 kids including a new baby.

I was shocked. I never thought my grandpa would do something like that. I have fond memories of my childhood with the both of them.

It made me wonder do we currently have unrealistic expectations of marriage? If someone posted my grandma’s story here for advice, everyone here would say divorce.

Not if we were in the 1940-1950's. Obviously things have changed - woman have a lot more freedom now. Your grandma didn't have a choice but to remain married to your grandpa. Now women can make conscious choices because they can actually take out a mortgage and have their own bank accounts. Have you never taken a history class?

[Anonymous]

Lots of fathers out there raising kids they think are biologically theirs as well. It isn't just men that cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

You're using hunt/prey language and then talking about misogyny? Oooof.

[Anonymous]

Women now have options so yes, men can’t just do whatever they want anymore

[Anonymous]

Yeah no.
My grandfather cheated on my grandmother and she divorced him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was talking to my grandmother about her marriage to my grandpa. She was very honest with me and told me about my grandpa having a mistress when she was in her 20s with 3 kids including a new baby.

I was shocked. I never thought my grandpa would do something like that. I have fond memories of my childhood with the both of them.

It made me wonder do we currently have unrealistic expectations of marriage? If someone posted my grandma’s story here for advice, everyone here would say divorce.

Did your grandmother work? Was she financially independent?

[Anonymous]

She probably did want to divorce but it wasn’t socially acceptable back then and women couldn’t get jobs. My grandparents were born in the early 20s. They had 4 kids between August 1945 and October 1950. After the last one, my grandmother told the doctor to tie her tubes or she’d kill herself. They had help and both came from well off families. She always counseled my mom to have her own bank account in case she ever wanted to leave. So, I have to assume that my grandma wanted to leave but couldn’t because of financial reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was talking to my grandmother about her marriage to my grandpa. She was very honest with me and told me about my grandpa having a mistress when she was in her 20s with 3 kids including a new baby.

I was shocked. I never thought my grandpa would do something like that. I have fond memories of my childhood with the both of them.

It made me wonder do we currently have unrealistic expectations of marriage? If someone posted my grandma’s story here for advice, everyone here would say divorce.

Women have more options now. Divorce is not the stigma it was in your grandmother’s time. Every person still goes into marriage making the same vows. They just don’t have to stay if someone decides to prioritize their own selfish pleasures.
Can you really not understand this?

[Anonymous]

OP here. I’m not a troll. As a side note it’s annoying that whenever anyone tries to have an open conversation here someone calls them a troll.

My grandma worked, but was not wealthy. I don’t think she has any regrets about not divorcing, because she enjoyed the big family that came from her marriage.

I’m not saying others should do the same thing. I was just thinking out loud about the tradeoffs we tend to make today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

You're using hunt/prey language and then talking about misogyny? Oooof.

I think you really missed pp’s point if that’s your takeaway.

I am married and I wouldn’t call my marriage happy or unhappy- my husband is my partner and support and I am his partner and support. He has always been there for me even if it’s not exactly in the way I need. But he’s trying and I’m trying and that is what makes our marriage keep going. I don’t know what we look like to people on the outside.

I see a lot of marriages around me that don’t seem to have that and I wonder what keeps them going.