Has marriage changed over time?

[Anonymous]

A few generations ago, marriage was about a partnership for survival. The concept of marriage being about love and passion is relatively recent.

[Anonymous]

I think the expectations and roles in a marriage have changed dramatically.

We have higher expectations of what our partner should offer; I agree with the poster that said we want a best friend, lover, equal partner, etc etc etc. It’s too much to ask of one person over decades.

Our lives are more intertwined and include more shared roles (both spouses work, watch kids, clean, cook). Good, esp for women, but difficult to navigate in practice as there are not defined roles and it’s challenging to distribute labor equally when working together on everything for years on end.

We are increasingly disconnected from our local community and overconnected to the outside world. This leads to this pressure cooker situation where we spend a ton of time with just our spouse vs friends & neighbors in the community and are exposed to so much information online about what your marriage should be and to “better” couples performing idealized versions of marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was talking to my grandmother about her marriage to my grandpa. She was very honest with me and told me about my grandpa having a mistress when she was in her 20s with 3 kids including a new baby.

I was shocked. I never thought my grandpa would do something like that. I have fond memories of my childhood with the both of them.

It made me wonder do we currently have unrealistic expectations of marriage? If someone posted my grandma’s story here for advice, everyone here would say divorce.

There is definitely more shame thrown at the person now if they do stay in this scenario. But I don’t think it has to grounds for divorce if the couple doesn’t want it to. Personally, I’d stay if it was a one off thing. I’m married for my kids, my future grandkids, stability, and the life we’ve built. No way I’d give that up easily. My husband is a decent guy but he’s just some guy, the life we have is so much more than him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the expectations and roles in a marriage have changed dramatically.

We have higher expectations of what our partner should offer; I agree with the poster that said we want a best friend, lover, equal partner, etc etc etc. It’s too much to ask of one person over decades.

Our lives are more intertwined and include more shared roles (both spouses work, watch kids, clean, cook). Good, esp for women, but difficult to navigate in practice as there are not defined roles and it’s challenging to distribute labor equally when working together on everything for years on end.

We are increasingly disconnected from our local community and overconnected to the outside world. This leads to this pressure cooker situation where we spend a ton of time with just our spouse vs friends & neighbors in the community and are exposed to so much information online about what your marriage should be and to “better” couples performing idealized versions of marriage.

This is so true about this fake digital world we live in now. And so bad- the severe screen addicts have no sense of community or identity. They get all their “knowledge” - total strangers’ personal opinions - online.
And they are out of shape and have a weak core due to being hunched over screens morning, noon and night.

[Anonymous]

Marriage is mainly a financial partnership these days and has regional variations. In the DC area it's typical for a marriage to combine two incomes and allow for decent homeownership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

Excellent post.

I don't think women have too many expectations just because men don't want to evolve. And the misogyny PP is speaking of is a demonstration of men's unwillingness to evolve. Once women reject that wholesale men will work to deprive women of options to leave bad marriages, namely through restricting women's ability to control their fertility, restricting women's financial freedom, and stripping away other rights in the employment and educational space. This is happening now and I expect it to get worse.

For any young woman today that was asking if they should get married I'd say live with the guy first, with the express intention of it being a view of married life with this person. Set your standards and don't beg or please for him to meet them. What you see will be what you get. Proceed accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the OP, and I don't necessarily think it's a troll post. I guess it depends on if you think OP's question about whether we have unrealistic expectations of marriage is meant to suggest that the old ways are acceptable, or just that women today aren't pragmatic about how different men's expectations are based on our patriarchal society and the deep seated misogyny that still exists.

As a child growing up I saw firsthand disrespect and infidelity in my parents' marriage and in my teens my mother basically used me as a therapist so I heard all the dirty details, as well as stories from the marriages of other family members which she shared with me. Obviously it's inappropriate to parentify a child in that way, but overall I'm grateful for having the rose tinted lenses removed at an early age because it kept me very skeptical of marriage and ultimately I chose not to go that path and don't really have any regrets about it.

I'm in later middle age now and I don't see very many happy or contented marriages around me - lots of friends and acquaintances who post the obligatory happy family pictures on the Facebook and gush about the decades of marriage to their spouses, but in person IRL it's endless bitter complaints about everything they've endured and how unhappy or discontented they are, but they stay for the finances or so as not to disrupt their children's lives or because they have been in the rut for so long they can't imagine the alternative even though the relationship is permanently damaged from years or disrespect, indifference, infidelity, coping with substance use or other behavioral disorder, etc.

My advice to young women today would be to take a very long time to get to know a young man before considering committing one's life to him. How men behave on the hunt is very much more often than not very different from how they behave once the prey is caught and trapped. People here are always criticizing women for not seeing red flags during the courtship phase, but there often aren't red flags - just pale pink ones which only make sense in retrospect.

In any case we are living through a time of great resurgence in misogyny coming from the top down among public figures - not just the president - and an entire media landscape built on teaching young men to revile women and consider them objects to serve their needs. So to the degree that women expect to be respected and have egalitarian relationships where the burdens of a life are shared equally, I think many women do have unrealistic expectations of marriage.

That's your perspective. My perspective is I feel sad for you. 45 yr marriage here. A happy marriage with children and grandchildren. You will never ever ever get to feel the pride and joy of having a marriage of unconditional love for spouse/children/grandkids. You spew the same poison that young people do on social media so I guess you've done the men of the world a favor by not marrying.

What a hate filled post. You sound like you spew poison every day and this is just a typical way you talk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As long as women are chasing money, height and looks, they'll keep compromising on traits like kindness, compatibility, ethical standards etc

Disagree. Many ugly people do not have these traits either or even worse pretend they do when they really don't.

[Anonymous]

My great grandmother was married at 16 back in the 1910s. Turns out the guy was abusive and beat her almost to death multiple times. Back then she couldn't get a divorce and at first everyone told her to stay with him. But when he started beating their daughter too, my great grandmother booked it, ran away (with her daughter) and eventually met my great grandfather. At the time she couldn't get a divorce not even with my great grandfather being a wealthy man. He basically paid off her first husband to leave them alone but she couldn't get a divorce. Had my great granddad not paid him off her probably could have forced her, at least their daughter, back.

They only were able to get married after her first husband died which was decades later, after 6 kids together. They were only married for a couple years before my great granddad died. My grandmother and her siblings did actually face some stigma from being illegitimate.

So yes marriage has changed, but it's for the better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think we have unrealistic expectations for modern marriage. We want a driven career person with a high salary, a great lover, our best friend, our confidante who stimulates us intellectually and maintains sexiness and attractiveness forever.

They also need to he good at cleaning, cooking, caregiving, childcare, etc etc

Sorry you didn't find a man like that but they're out there. I mean, you can either settle and be miserably married to someone who you complain about on DCUM or you can set your standards high and remain single if you can't find someone who meets your expectations.

[Anonymous]

I think earlier generations of people were more encouraged to just turn the other cheek when it came to infidelity issues in a marriage which is why divorce was less common w/our ancestors.

Plus many women did not work outside of the home in years past and were financially dependent on their husbands for everything.

In modern times - - many women now have careers and are much more independent overall.

[Anonymous]

It has only been a short time that marriage has been for love, it was usually for economic and religious reasons.

I know my grandma had an arranged marriage and didn't like being married to my grandpa, they were essentially separated.

I had a great grandparent who was the fourth spouse of wealthy man; kind of like Mormons but they weren't....lived together in the same household.

I think we have higher expectations of marriage due to society pressure and social media but it is hard to have your spouse be everything and people have more options whether to get married or not. Women have more freedom but they also can get stuck in a misalignment of expectations as both men and women can have different opinions of what marriage should be.

[Anonymous]

Of course it's changed. My dad used to give my SAHM an allowance each week. They got married in 1969. Neither of them thought this was a problem. A couple weeks ago I used the phrase "financial abuse" in chatting with my dad and had to explain it to him - he'd never heard of it.