Need help with man-splaining co-worker who is not a man :)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years ago, I did this to a boss. Everything was so new to me and it felt like my head was exploding with so much information. I felt so smart and assumed these things had to be new to people, especially those who didn't appear as confident as me. I shudder with embarrassment just remembering. I was young, naive, and thought my little bit of new information that made my world crack open in awe was old news to this particular boss.

The boss handled it with grace, but I was quickly moved to another position where I was in over my head and put through the paces by someone who was professional, but far less patient than that first boss.

I would do as the PP suggested, re: cut her off.

Yes me too. Many people have a "puppy" phase. You learn from people cutting you off - if you have EQ. This is what I call "corporate kabuki". What irritates you may or may not bother other people.

Don't be rude, but it's generally harmless for older employees to rein in younger employees.

If you can't stand glossy yammering people getting ahead, re-read some Dilbert and face reality.

I think the subtext could also be that OP is legitimately threatened by a younger woman acting in ways she does not permit herself to act. It would be pretty toxic to try to hurt a younger coworker for that reason, for what really is (at worst) a faux pas.

I have empathy for her because I have always worked in knowledge-intensive environments where learning an immense amount in a short time is required. Some people learn and process information by talking about it and by having conversations that may seem naive or presumptuous to others. But this is how they are getting their arms around the issue. And I have often also found that many people who have been around for longer than me or are above me actually have big gaps in their knowledge - because it is impossible to know everything in these fields and also sometimes because they have not kept up. Yes I have also had to learn how to keep these discussions to where they belong, but silencing and humiliating a young new female jr employee trying to learn seems like a frankly sh*t maneuver.

Why would OP be threatened by a young coworker who lacks the self-awareness to realize she is explaining basic information to people with lots more experience?

I'm sure OP has gaps in her knowledge but she is unlikely to fill them by wasting time listening to someone who knows even less.

I work in an extremely "knowledge-intensive" job and this would drive me nuts because it's a waste of time.

OP literally wrote that she is jealous and insecure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years ago, I did this to a boss. Everything was so new to me and it felt like my head was exploding with so much information. I felt so smart and assumed these things had to be new to people, especially those who didn't appear as confident as me. I shudder with embarrassment just remembering. I was young, naive, and thought my little bit of new information that made my world crack open in awe was old news to this particular boss.

The boss handled it with grace, but I was quickly moved to another position where I was in over my head and put through the paces by someone who was professional, but far less patient than that first boss.

I would do as the PP suggested, re: cut her off.

Yes me too. Many people have a "puppy" phase. You learn from people cutting you off - if you have EQ. This is what I call "corporate kabuki". What irritates you may or may not bother other people.

Don't be rude, but it's generally harmless for older employees to rein in younger employees.

If you can't stand glossy yammering people getting ahead, re-read some Dilbert and face reality.

I think the subtext could also be that OP is legitimately threatened by a younger woman acting in ways she does not permit herself to act. It would be pretty toxic to try to hurt a younger coworker for that reason, for what really is (at worst) a faux pas.

I have empathy for her because I have always worked in knowledge-intensive environments where learning an immense amount in a short time is required. Some people learn and process information by talking about it and by having conversations that may seem naive or presumptuous to others. But this is how they are getting their arms around the issue. And I have often also found that many people who have been around for longer than me or are above me actually have big gaps in their knowledge - because it is impossible to know everything in these fields and also sometimes because they have not kept up. Yes I have also had to learn how to keep these discussions to where they belong, but silencing and humiliating a young new female jr employee trying to learn seems like a frankly sh*t maneuver.

Why would OP be threatened by a young coworker who lacks the self-awareness to realize she is explaining basic information to people with lots more experience?

I'm sure OP has gaps in her knowledge but she is unlikely to fill them by wasting time listening to someone who knows even less.

I work in an extremely "knowledge-intensive" job and this would drive me nuts because it's a waste of time.

OP literally wrote that she is jealous and insecure.

She literally didn't, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apologies for using a gendered term, but this expression was an easy short cut.

So how do you gracefully handle people like this? My company is very into a nice, graceful/professionalism culture so an overly snarky retort is NOT an option here. Passive aggressive seems to be acceptable, as long as its very subtle.

This co worker in particular really gets to me because she is quite junior to me in hierarchy (2 levels down), younger (which I know shouldn't matter but sure, I guess I'm a bit touchy) and I typically don't find any of her info useful or helpful. Most of what comes out of her mouth is obvious/pointless information which most people would understand I already know. I think this also gets me because it makes me feel insecure because I know I am not as confident when I present my own ideas, and I sit there wondering, "how does she have the gall to confidently drone on like this?' But I also know that part is my issue.

When it's harmless/useless info, I tend to let it go, but occasionally she will cross into lecturing about areas where she clearly has little to no knowledge, and where I do have experience. Recently, in one of those moments, I clapped back.

No flames please. But thoughtful advice appreciated.

OP are you speaking of group settings, such as in meetings? Or is she speaking to you this way one on one?

If in group setting, I would cut her off mid paragraph and say, "Janet, thank you for these thoughts; I think we're all aware of blah blah blah. In the interest of respecting everyone's time here, I would like to keep this conversation on track and go back to discussing real solutions for this problem."

She won't say another word.

It's both. She will do this in meetings, but also one on one. And it drives me NUTS

Why does it drive you nuts? Is she incorrect or going on a tangent?

Well, its mansplaining. So like if I started talking to you here on DCUM and explaining what DCUM is and how it works, blah blah. Occasionally she will just be dead wrong, or misinformed. Like if she started saying that DCUM was *only* for DC residents (which is not true, even if it started that way). See what I mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does she have a supervisor or mentor you’d be comfortable sharing this constructive feedback with? Obviously you wouldn’t frame it as you being overly sensitive or not confident.

Otherwise, just politely but definitively say, “Yes, Larla, I know” when she does this. You can cut her off or you can wait til she’s done. Say it like you’d say it to an enthusiastic toddler who thinks they’re breaking some exciting info to you that’s really just news to them. Occasionally you can add, “I’m glad you know about that” or “It’s good you know about that.” Like you’re patting her on the head for the bone she brought you.

In the meantime, work on your confidence!

OP here. These are some good thoughts here, ty

Her supervisor is notoriously terrible with gossiping and boundaries and would likely tell her it was me. Which is maybe ok, maybe not. But something to consider

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Flatter her and listen. Compliment her ideas. You will win a follower at work.

Disagree. I think this will inflate her ego even more and make the situation worse. (NP)

+1, this will just encourage it.

She needs to realize that she is literally explaining basic things to more experienced people, wasting her time and theirs. She doesn't yet realize this, which is embarrassing for her. She needs to be gently made to understand this so that she shuts up and actually learns something instead of wandering around thinking she's some kind of savant instead of what she actually is -- an extremely green recent grad with limited self-awareness.

One day she will look back on this behavior and cringe incredibly hard.

Op here. To clarify, she is junior to me but she is not a recent grad or inexperienced. She is experienced but I just have far more experience and not only because I’ve been working longer but bc my roles have been higher than hers. I am not sure she will correct tbh as she mentioned she left her last role bc ‘people didn’t like me’ which I assume had something to do with this annoying tic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years ago, I did this to a boss. Everything was so new to me and it felt like my head was exploding with so much information. I felt so smart and assumed these things had to be new to people, especially those who didn't appear as confident as me. I shudder with embarrassment just remembering. I was young, naive, and thought my little bit of new information that made my world crack open in awe was old news to this particular boss.

The boss handled it with grace, but I was quickly moved to another position where I was in over my head and put through the paces by someone who was professional, but far less patient than that first boss.

I would do as the PP suggested, re: cut her off.

Yes me too. Many people have a "puppy" phase. You learn from people cutting you off - if you have EQ. This is what I call "corporate kabuki". What irritates you may or may not bother other people.

Don't be rude, but it's generally harmless for older employees to rein in younger employees.

If you can't stand glossy yammering people getting ahead, re-read some Dilbert and face reality.

I think the subtext could also be that OP is legitimately threatened by a younger woman acting in ways she does not permit herself to act. It would be pretty toxic to try to hurt a younger coworker for that reason, for what really is (at worst) a faux pas.

I have empathy for her because I have always worked in knowledge-intensive environments where learning an immense amount in a short time is required. Some people learn and process information by talking about it and by having conversations that may seem naive or presumptuous to others. But this is how they are getting their arms around the issue. And I have often also found that many people who have been around for longer than me or are above me actually have big gaps in their knowledge - because it is impossible to know everything in these fields and also sometimes because they have not kept up. Yes I have also had to learn how to keep these discussions to where they belong, but silencing and humiliating a young new female jr employee trying to learn seems like a frankly sh*t maneuver.

Why would OP be threatened by a young coworker who lacks the self-awareness to realize she is explaining basic information to people with lots more experience?

I'm sure OP has gaps in her knowledge but she is unlikely to fill them by wasting time listening to someone who knows even less.

I work in an extremely "knowledge-intensive" job and this would drive me nuts because it's a waste of time.

Op here. TY. I work in a knowledge intensive area too but she is not adding anything or filling in gaps. Quite the opposite.

And I’m not jealous of her exactly- to be blunt, I don’t think she’s very bright nor do I think her judgement is particularly good - but I’ll admit that I admire her confidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does she have a supervisor or mentor you’d be comfortable sharing this constructive feedback with? Obviously you wouldn’t frame it as you being overly sensitive or not confident.

Otherwise, just politely but definitively say, “Yes, Larla, I know” when she does this. You can cut her off or you can wait til she’s done. Say it like you’d say it to an enthusiastic toddler who thinks they’re breaking some exciting info to you that’s really just news to them. Occasionally you can add, “I’m glad you know about that” or “It’s good you know about that.” Like you’re patting her on the head for the bone she brought you.

In the meantime, work on your confidence!

OP here. These are some good thoughts here, ty

Her supervisor is notoriously terrible with gossiping and boundaries and would likely tell her it was me. Which is maybe ok, maybe not. But something to consider

Why would you go over her head and not just talk to her directly? Your approach is really confusing. She’s not doing anything insubordinate or risky. It’s a style of conversation you dislike. You should address her directly about it.

[Anonymous]

Nice version:
"Larla, you seem really interested in this field. I've been doing this for decades and I love it - would you like to get coffee sometime and I can tell you where the company is on this? I can also suggest some advanced reading, since you've got the basics."

Less nice but totally acceptable:
"Let me cut you off - we're both well informed so there's no need to restate the situation. The task today is x. I'm doing y part of it. Do you have what you need to do z so we can finish on time?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does she have a supervisor or mentor you’d be comfortable sharing this constructive feedback with? Obviously you wouldn’t frame it as you being overly sensitive or not confident.

Otherwise, just politely but definitively say, “Yes, Larla, I know” when she does this. You can cut her off or you can wait til she’s done. Say it like you’d say it to an enthusiastic toddler who thinks they’re breaking some exciting info to you that’s really just news to them. Occasionally you can add, “I’m glad you know about that” or “It’s good you know about that.” Like you’re patting her on the head for the bone she brought you.

In the meantime, work on your confidence!

OP here. These are some good thoughts here, ty

Her supervisor is notoriously terrible with gossiping and boundaries and would likely tell her it was me. Which is maybe ok, maybe not. But something to consider

Why would you go over her head and not just talk to her directly? Your approach is really confusing. She’s not doing anything insubordinate or risky. It’s a style of conversation you dislike. You should address her directly about it.

Someone suggested it. I’m responding to that. And I’m saying no, I probably wouldn’t

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nice version:
"Larla, you seem really interested in this field. I've been doing this for decades and I love it - would you like to get coffee sometime and I can tell you where the company is on this? I can also suggest some advanced reading, since you've got the basics."

Less nice but totally acceptable:
"Let me cut you off - we're both well informed so there's no need to restate the situation. The task today is x. I'm doing y part of it. Do you have what you need to do z so we can finish on time?"

Not bad!

[Anonymous]

OP is telling on herself here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My thoughtful advice is that your sensitivity is high. The "no flames please" is a sign of weakness. Do you send signals or vibes like this at work? If so, this is an open door for an assertive or aggressive junior to fill your space with herself.

Women in the work place have been condition for years to be assertive. The alternative is you become a doormat. I think you’re overly sensitive, as the poster above explained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When it's one on one, just smile at her like she's stupid but well-meaning and say "Yes McKenzie, I've worked on CSS for several years now, but thanks." And then turn away or walk away or redirect the conversation.

+1.

In group settings I'd probably let it go unless it's something that I/my team are directly responsible for or it's my meeting. I can't stand people derailing meetings with tangents or useless blather.

[Anonymous]

Do what you would do for anyone else who you would rather not talk to. Pretend you have somewhere to go/something to do. Change the subject. Minimize interactions.

The skills required are pretty basic, and must be used often in life.

(And try to find the right words next find. This is not man-splaining by definition. )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years ago, I did this to a boss. Everything was so new to me and it felt like my head was exploding with so much information. I felt so smart and assumed these things had to be new to people, especially those who didn't appear as confident as me. I shudder with embarrassment just remembering. I was young, naive, and thought my little bit of new information that made my world crack open in awe was old news to this particular boss.

The boss handled it with grace, but I was quickly moved to another position where I was in over my head and put through the paces by someone who was professional, but far less patient than that first boss.

I would do as the PP suggested, re: cut her off.

Yes me too. Many people have a "puppy" phase. You learn from people cutting you off - if you have EQ. This is what I call "corporate kabuki". What irritates you may or may not bother other people.

Don't be rude, but it's generally harmless for older employees to rein in younger employees.

If you can't stand glossy yammering people getting ahead, re-read some Dilbert and face reality.

I think the subtext could also be that OP is legitimately threatened by a younger woman acting in ways she does not permit herself to act. It would be pretty toxic to try to hurt a younger coworker for that reason, for what really is (at worst) a faux pas.

I have empathy for her because I have always worked in knowledge-intensive environments where learning an immense amount in a short time is required. Some people learn and process information by talking about it and by having conversations that may seem naive or presumptuous to others. But this is how they are getting their arms around the issue. And I have often also found that many people who have been around for longer than me or are above me actually have big gaps in their knowledge - because it is impossible to know everything in these fields and also sometimes because they have not kept up. Yes I have also had to learn how to keep these discussions to where they belong, but silencing and humiliating a young new female jr employee trying to learn seems like a frankly sh*t maneuver.

Why would OP be threatened by a young coworker who lacks the self-awareness to realize she is explaining basic information to people with lots more experience?

I'm sure OP has gaps in her knowledge but she is unlikely to fill them by wasting time listening to someone who knows even less.

I work in an extremely "knowledge-intensive" job and this would drive me nuts because it's a waste of time.

Op here. TY. I work in a knowledge intensive area too but she is not adding anything or filling in gaps. Quite the opposite.

And I’m not jealous of her exactly- to be blunt, I don’t think she’s very bright nor do I think her judgement is particularly good - but I’ll admit that I admire her confidence.

If you are describing her accurately, she will learn with experience , or fail to succeed.

Just focus on your own responsibilities and direct reports. If you are good at what you do, you will surpass her.