AP Classes and IEPs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An IEP is made to support a students ability to access the curriculum. If your kid is in AP classes, they are more than accessing the curriculum. Hence, no support required.

This is absolute bull shit. This is not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most likely the answer is no to support in AP/DE class simply due to lack of staffing. However, you will want to reach out to the person in charge of College Board accommodations so your student can apply for testing accommodations if needed.

17:07 again. Yes, that's crucial. The AP exam coordinator did the paperwork vis-a-vis the College Board. I assume they sent the same info that was on the IEP. He had double time on all College Board exams, and the ACT. One year the proctor for one of the AP history exams could not verify his typing accommodation and he refused to give it to him - my dysgraphic DS had to handwrite his answers, which was very stressful, but he still got a good score thanks to the extra time.

I would have sued. My kids dysgraphia and handwriting are so bad despite non stop writing work that it would have impacted them terribly even with extra time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most likely the answer is no to support in AP/DE class simply due to lack of staffing. However, you will want to reach out to the person in charge of College Board accommodations so your student can apply for testing accommodations if needed.

17:07 again. Yes, that's crucial. The AP exam coordinator did the paperwork vis-a-vis the College Board. I assume they sent the same info that was on the IEP. He had double time on all College Board exams, and the ACT. One year the proctor for one of the AP history exams could not verify his typing accommodation and he refused to give it to him - my dysgraphic DS had to handwrite his answers, which was very stressful, but he still got a good score thanks to the extra time.

I would have sued. My kids dysgraphia and handwriting are so bad despite non stop writing work that it would have impacted them terribly even with extra time.

I couldn't sue, because he got a 5: social science is his strongest subject, and his handwriting is large and unformed, so in the greater scheme of things, not too hard to decipher (it's not a doctor's scrawl). But I did pat myself on the back for forcing him to work on his block and cursive all these years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An IEP is made to support a students ability to access the curriculum. If your kid is in AP classes, they are more than accessing the curriculum. Hence, no support required.

This is absolutely false.

No it's not. Why do you think schools can get away witn not having co-taught AP classes?

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

If a student with an iep needs support in a subject and wants to take that ap class, the school has to provide support in that class.

Schools get away with it because parents won't file complaints.

There is a Dear Colleague letter from the US Dept of Education that spells out very clearly that schools can not deny students with ieps/504s etc access to higher level classes. It makes clear that if students require support in these subjects support has to be provided in these higher level classes.

Being bright enough to be in an advanced class doesn't contradict the need for an iep/504. Having an iep/504 is not a reason to deny access to a higher level class.

This issue comes up constantly here and the issue arises because parents won't file complaints. I had to. A guidance counselor at my kids hs had been denying students with disabilities access to AP and honors classes if the student required support in that subject. She told my kid they were doing something wrong and violating their iep by signing up. That's a sick thing to do and thank goodness that person moved on to another job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An IEP is made to support a students ability to access the curriculum. If your kid is in AP classes, they are more than accessing the curriculum. Hence, no support required.

This is absolutely false.

Not PP you replied to, but it is what is actually practiced, due to prioritization of resources. Most students in academic difficulties will be in grade-level classes. Schools are not going to "waste" a para in an AP class to support one kid, if they can slot them in high school Algebra 1 where there are 15 kids with IEPs or 504s. Which is why schools often group kids with IEPs and 504s together in the same class and add their precious, precious, paraeducator.

It's only in situations like the GT/LD program, where there is a higher concentration of kids who need support AND who can access advanced coursework, that some AP classes might have a para. And even then, they can't cover every AP class. Maybe there's one for the entry-level AP US Gov that most kids take in 9th grade, for example. There probably isn't for AP Physics C.

What you are documenting is illegal and I would file a complaint so fast they wouldn't know what hit them. The US dept of ed is very clear that school systems can not create disability islands of classes where all kids with disabilities are shoved in to one class. Also your example re AP Physics is wrong.

Your attitude toward students with disabilities is disgusting. Not only are you ignorant, you are vile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An IEP is made to support a students ability to access the curriculum. If your kid is in AP classes, they are more than accessing the curriculum. Hence, no support required.

This is not true. Bright kids who have an IEP and are otherwise qualified for an AP or any advanced class or magnet have a right to the same supports and accommodations in the AP or advanced class.

Whatever accommodations are on the IEP must be delivered in all classes - no exceptions. I have had 2 kids in magnets - 1 with an IEP and 1 with a 504. The AP teacher is obligated to comply with the accommodations.

AP classes are considered part of the curriculum - not “more than the curriculum.”

What kind of “support” does your child need in an AP class, OP?

This 100%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In terms of level of support, if you take an AP class, you are taking a college level class with the reasonable options of accommodations one might request in a college setting. There are specific cases for one-on-one support such as interpreter for a deaf student, note taker for a physically disabled student (unable to write) etc.

My kid is not deaf or physically disabled and had support in the ap classes in which kid's iep stated support was required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our school said no, no support in AP classes.

Then you should file a complaint with your state vdoe. They have to. See the Dear Colleague letter from the US Dept of Ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of level of support, if you take an AP class, you are taking a college level class with the reasonable options of accommodations one might request in a college setting. There are specific cases for one-on-one support such as interpreter for a deaf student, note taker for a physically disabled student (unable to write) etc.

This is incorrect. An AP class is a high school class. A high school student should be supported in an AP class per their IEP just as they would for any other class in high school. The accommodations on the AP exam itself are governed by the College Board, so the student does have to apply to the CB separately for those.


- special ed atty

Special ed atty, how is support defined? This seems murky to me. IEP teams have to disclose student goals, accommodations, and service hours but this hardly nails down the delivery methods for specialized instruction.

There is no way you are a special education attorney and do not know this. If you aren't lying, you are terrible at your job. Our kids get the support as documented in their ieps in high level classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An IEP is made to support a students ability to access the curriculum. If your kid is in AP classes, they are more than accessing the curriculum. Hence, no support required.

This is not true. Bright kids who have an IEP and are otherwise qualified for an AP or any advanced class or magnet have a right to the same supports and accommodations in the AP or advanced class.

Whatever accommodations are on the IEP must be delivered in all classes - no exceptions. I have had 2 kids in magnets - 1 with an IEP and 1 with a 504. The AP teacher is obligated to comply with the accommodations.

AP classes are considered part of the curriculum - not “more than the curriculum.”

What kind of “support” does your child need in an AP class, OP?

Some might find this controversial but I think if your kid is on a college pathway it is probably reasonable (from a parenting perspective) to start getting them used to a less supportive environment in some of their more challenging academic classes. 504 accommodations are more similar to what will be available at the college level so I didn’t think it was a terrible thing when our kids AP classes weren’t supported.

This is ridiculous. Our kids disabilities don't improve over time and don't go away. The goal is for our kids to learn and access the content. My kids are out of college now but both the huge state school one kid went to and the small private my other kid went to provided the same accommodations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of level of support, if you take an AP class, you are taking a college level class with the reasonable options of accommodations one might request in a college setting. There are specific cases for one-on-one support such as interpreter for a deaf student, note taker for a physically disabled student (unable to write) etc.

This is incorrect. An AP class is a high school class. A high school student should be supported in an AP class per their IEP just as they would for any other class in high school. The accommodations on the AP exam itself are governed by the College Board, so the student does have to apply to the CB separately for those.


- special ed atty

Special ed atty, how is support defined? This seems murky to me. IEP teams have to disclose student goals, accommodations, and service hours but this hardly nails down the delivery methods for specialized instruction.

There is no way you are a special education attorney and do not know this. If you aren't lying, you are terrible at your job. Our kids get the support as documented in their ieps in high level classes

My kid requires small classes. He just cannot handle 30+ people in a classroom. I was told that this was not possible in AP courses. His class schedule is ridiculously easy. Cannot wait until he can move to DE. Montgomery College caps class sizes at 24. He can't handle 24 people either but at least I can see how many seats are left and we will pick sections based on that information. I've been following the MC schedule and 8am classes tend to have lots of available seats late into registration. Those will be the sections we will go after.

If there's a way that I can force MCPS to provide an AP class in the Bridge program, I'm all ears.

[Anonymous]

It's very disappointing to see the ignorance and incorrect information posted on the sns forum wrt this subject. This gets posted and argued every year. It's even more disappointing that supposed school teachers and administrators are here with incorrect information.

The problem, as stated above, is that parents are reluctant to push back or file complaints. Filing a complaint with your state doe is easy. If encountered the misinformation I've seen here, I'd call an IEP mtg and let them know I'd be filing a complaint. Requesting an IEP meeting was enough to get my child's school to provide support.

Parents who believe their children are capable enough to attend college are very reluctant to make waves throughout hs because their children need referrals written by teachers to apply to college. The schools know this and often take advantage knowing the parents are more afraid to speak up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of level of support, if you take an AP class, you are taking a college level class with the reasonable options of accommodations one might request in a college setting. There are specific cases for one-on-one support such as interpreter for a deaf student, note taker for a physically disabled student (unable to write) etc.

This is incorrect. An AP class is a high school class. A high school student should be supported in an AP class per their IEP just as they would for any other class in high school. The accommodations on the AP exam itself are governed by the College Board, so the student does have to apply to the CB separately for those.


- special ed atty

Special ed atty, how is support defined? This seems murky to me. IEP teams have to disclose student goals, accommodations, and service hours but this hardly nails down the delivery methods for specialized instruction.

There is no way you are a special education attorney and do not know this. If you aren't lying, you are terrible at your job. Our kids get the support as documented in their ieps in high level classes

My kid requires small classes. He just cannot handle 30+ people in a classroom. I was told that this was not possible in AP courses. His class schedule is ridiculously easy. Cannot wait until he can move to DE. Montgomery College caps class sizes at 24. He can't handle 24 people either but at least I can see how many seats are left and we will pick sections based on that information. I've been following the MC schedule and 8am classes tend to have lots of available seats late into registration. Those will be the sections we will go after.

If there's a way that I can force MCPS to provide an AP class in the Bridge program, I'm all ears.

I don't know what the Bridge program is. Your problem is different if you know your kid can't function because of the size of the AP class. I would talk to an advocate or special ed lawyer to see what can be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An IEP is made to support a students ability to access the curriculum. If your kid is in AP classes, they are more than accessing the curriculum. Hence, no support required.

Do not pay attention to this. Smart kids also need help accessing the curriculum. Fortunately there is the Federal IDEA and not just you.

OP, my student took APs, classes with a para (assuming others in the class also had IEPs or 504s), and classes in self-contained classrooms--all in the same semester. End of day resource class was key. WJ was excellent in supporting my student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of level of support, if you take an AP class, you are taking a college level class with the reasonable options of accommodations one might request in a college setting. There are specific cases for one-on-one support such as interpreter for a deaf student, note taker for a physically disabled student (unable to write) etc.

This is incorrect. An AP class is a high school class. A high school student should be supported in an AP class per their IEP just as they would for any other class in high school. The accommodations on the AP exam itself are governed by the College Board, so the student does have to apply to the CB separately for those.


- special ed atty

Is a co-teacher an accommodation? Not that I’ve ever seen. An AP student would be entitled to their accommodations but I don’t see them needing specially designed instruction for AP Physics C. That’s above grade level. How does one demonstrate underachievement for grade 11 when you are taking a college level course?

There is no requirement that one demonstrate underachievement. Brilliant kids can have disabilities. You have the mindset that a student must be failing to have an iep. That isn't how it works.