Blending families

[Anonymous]

You should not get married.

The ideal is to move close to each other and enjoy each other’s company. Go on dates, travel together and keep your fiancés separate. You already have your assets in a trust for your kid. There are very few benefits and A LOT of downsides to getting married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry for your loss. But I would not date this man. Why did he need your help to have a proper relationship with his ex? Why couldn't he do that on his own? It sounds like you had to basically parent him into it.

As for his daughter, you definitely are competition for his attention, and it's foolish to pretend you aren't. "Blended" families require a clear-eyed assessment of the many different people involved, their interests, and what is at stake for them. Don't fool yourself about this.

He did establish a more cordial relationship with the ex-wife, but I feel that I helped make this transition even a bit easier and she seems friendly towards me. I am not foolish or pretending that I do not notice that this is not easy for his daughter. I am asking for advice on how to make this easier. His daughter is very friendly towards me and we even hung out together and went shopping. But I know that she is very close to her father and I definitely do not want to overlook anything. We have been together for almost three years and it has been a really good relationship for both of us.

Well, I don't think you're going to be willing or able to actually do the things that would make it easier for her. Honestly, stepfamily and stepsiblings are not always a good deal for adult children of divorce. Maybe your marriage will benefit his daughter in the long run, if you take care of him when he's old and you don't divorce. But it might not turn out that way. And there's no way you can credibly promise to do that-- it's basically a promise to stay married outlive him. And if she's still pretty young she might not even be thinking about that as a benefit you bring.

You need to open your eyes here. It's not just that it's hard for her emotionally! You say you are not in competition with her, but you 1000% are, and she knows it. You're proposing to consume a tremendous amount of his time and energy. You'll be wanting him to spend time with your extended family, and to play grandpa to your son's children if there are any. All that cuts into the time he has available for her and her future children. She won't be able to visit her father, ever, without potentially dealing with you and maybe your son and maybe your extended family too. Except when you so benevolently encourage 1:1 time so she gets what little you're willing to give her. And remember, she might not like you and your son as much as she's letting you think. (Wow, you went shopping one time in three years, that does not prove you are besties).

And if you're really not in competition, then you're going to have a prenup so that her potential inheritance stays exactly the same as it is now, right? Because if you don't, then the day you marry, her potential inheritance decreases dramatically-- maybe to zero. If you're really not in competition and she has nothing to lose here, put your money where your mouth is.

Interesting... what makes you think that HE is the one with the $$$?

I'm not assuming that, but I am saying her potential inheritance, whatever it might be, decreases dramatically.

What if I am the one with the assets? What would your advice be?

My advice would be to consult a professional and decide what you think is fair. And then implement that, on purpose, without just letting the chips fall where they may. Don't kid yourself that the adult children aren't thinking about this. If you set things up so that in the event of your death, your DH gets your entire estate, then your DH can remarry and another woman can get it, or he can leave your son out and will it all to his daughters. That's how adult children get disinherited-- it's not necessarily on purpose, it's a failure to plan.

Deciding to marry anyone without assets is a very risky decision and you should have your own, separate, financial advice for it. He'll probably have all kinds of excuses and blame others for why he hasn't got enough savings, but don't be credulous-- really ask yourself if he's good with money and lives within his means. You also need to ask yourself if marrying will mean he is ineligible for Medicaid when he needs assisted living. It might be a better deal to remain unmarried.

This is a big one. You might end up legally obligated to pay for his end-of-life care as his spouse, and have nothing left after helping him to pay for your own end-of-life care or to pass on to your kids. It's much better to keep things separate at this point in life. Since he's living in your house, at least you get to set the rules and if, over time, he doesn't like them, his only remedy will be to leave. That's better than having to settle up with a spouse.

Perhaps just living together or maybe even having just a commitment ceremony (without a legal marriage certificate) would be a better decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Im remarried and we each have adult kids. I love my husband dearly but there are times I wish I had married someone without kids. It does get complicated blending families. For example, he helps his kids out a lot with money, which bothers me. One of his kids is coming to live with us for a while because she’s having some mental health issues. I’m supportive but it’s not something I really considered. You think when they get older, they’ll be self sufficient and live on their own. As far the relationship with his daughter, I think that just needs time. There’s not much you can do except be friendly, supportive and kind. Hopefully she comes around. But be careful about blending families. It’s trickier than I anticipated!

Thank you for sharing your experience. I understand and I actually also briefly dated a man without children and it was a disaster. He was very jealous of my son and could not relate to me and my parenting issues at all. I broke up with him after just a few months of dating. I find that I could relate much better to men who also had children. But, I get what you are saying about not knowing what the future holds. But wouldn't this also apply to us? How about divorced fathers who prefer single women without children because it could potentially make their lives less complicted now and down the road?

I think that's a very sensible preference for divorced fathers to have. When both people have children, the "blending" becomes that much more complicated. It's a larger group of people, so it's going to require more compromise and more logistical work. And the chances of having a difficult person in the family are higher the more people you have.

I am the single childless woman who posted above about dating divorced men with sons because daughters can be harder dynamic.

Yes, it makes it easier. But what it really means is that everything winds up revolving around the parent and the kids and the childless partner constantly bends to fit around their needs. My boyfriend sometimes legitimately uses their needs as a legit reason, but also sometimes uses it as a cover, IMO. Like, HE will want to do something and so he raises the kids (his are young adults now) as the reason when really it's his desire. All the holidays revolve around his family, never around my extended family, because he has kids and I don't. I feel very sidelined. In some ways I feel like the relationship might be more balanced if we both had kids' needs to be considered.

OP, I thought further and I DO have two friends who have positive relationships with their stepdaughters. One of them was totally distraught when her dad remarried when we were in college and she became close to her.

OP here, I understand your concerns and they are absolutely valid. I dated a childless man in the past and I know that there were times when I had to abruptly cancel plans or change plans because of my child's activities or needs. He often resented it and it became a source of constant conflict during our brief relationship. He is now with another childless woman and it is definitely a much better fit for him. I'm happy for him. Thank you for sharing that some of your friends now have good relationships with their stepdaughters. I hope to continue to build my relationship with my future stepdaughter as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry for your loss. But I would not date this man. Why did he need your help to have a proper relationship with his ex? Why couldn't he do that on his own? It sounds like you had to basically parent him into it.

As for his daughter, you definitely are competition for his attention, and it's foolish to pretend you aren't. "Blended" families require a clear-eyed assessment of the many different people involved, their interests, and what is at stake for them. Don't fool yourself about this.

He did establish a more cordial relationship with the ex-wife, but I feel that I helped make this transition even a bit easier and she seems friendly towards me. I am not foolish or pretending that I do not notice that this is not easy for his daughter. I am asking for advice on how to make this easier. His daughter is very friendly towards me and we even hung out together and went shopping. But I know that she is very close to her father and I definitely do not want to overlook anything. We have been together for almost three years and it has been a really good relationship for both of us.

Well, I don't think you're going to be willing or able to actually do the things that would make it easier for her. Honestly, stepfamily and stepsiblings are not always a good deal for adult children of divorce. Maybe your marriage will benefit his daughter in the long run, if you take care of him when he's old and you don't divorce. But it might not turn out that way. And there's no way you can credibly promise to do that-- it's basically a promise to stay married outlive him. And if she's still pretty young she might not even be thinking about that as a benefit you bring.

You need to open your eyes here. It's not just that it's hard for her emotionally! You say you are not in competition with her, but you 1000% are, and she knows it. You're proposing to consume a tremendous amount of his time and energy. You'll be wanting him to spend time with your extended family, and to play grandpa to your son's children if there are any. All that cuts into the time he has available for her and her future children. She won't be able to visit her father, ever, without potentially dealing with you and maybe your son and maybe your extended family too. Except when you so benevolently encourage 1:1 time so she gets what little you're willing to give her. And remember, she might not like you and your son as much as she's letting you think. (Wow, you went shopping one time in three years, that does not prove you are besties).

And if you're really not in competition, then you're going to have a prenup so that her potential inheritance stays exactly the same as it is now, right? Because if you don't, then the day you marry, her potential inheritance decreases dramatically-- maybe to zero. If you're really not in competition and she has nothing to lose here, put your money where your mouth is.

Interesting... what makes you think that HE is the one with the $$$?

I'm not assuming that, but I am saying her potential inheritance, whatever it might be, decreases dramatically.

What if I am the one with the assets? What would your advice be?

My advice would be to consult a professional and decide what you think is fair. And then implement that, on purpose, without just letting the chips fall where they may. Don't kid yourself that the adult children aren't thinking about this. If you set things up so that in the event of your death, your DH gets your entire estate, then your DH can remarry and another woman can get it, or he can leave your son out and will it all to his daughters. That's how adult children get disinherited-- it's not necessarily on purpose, it's a failure to plan.

Deciding to marry anyone without assets is a very risky decision and you should have your own, separate, financial advice for it. He'll probably have all kinds of excuses and blame others for why he hasn't got enough savings, but don't be credulous-- really ask yourself if he's good with money and lives within his means. You also need to ask yourself if marrying will mean he is ineligible for Medicaid when he needs assisted living. It might be a better deal to remain unmarried.

This is a big one. You might end up legally obligated to pay for his end-of-life care as his spouse, and have nothing left after helping him to pay for your own end-of-life care or to pass on to your kids. It's much better to keep things separate at this point in life. Since he's living in your house, at least you get to set the rules and if, over time, he doesn't like them, his only remedy will be to leave. That's better than having to settle up with a spouse.

Perhaps just living together or maybe even having just a commitment ceremony (without a legal marriage certificate) would be a better decision.

You also need a clear occupancy agreement to protect your property rights. It should give him a "license to occupy” but specify that he’s not a tenant, include language that he has no ownership interest in the property, state this is not intended to create common law marriage rights and include a specific waiver, specify that the license to occupy is “at-will” and can be terminated in 24 to 48 hours with no formal eviction process, require written permission for him to have a guest over for longer than 24 hours, and outline contribution expectations for utilities, groceries, etc.

[Anonymous]

Whatever you do don't marry. Keep living together and keep your finances separate. If possible, keep your own residence too. Rent it out if needed but don't get rid of it.

My BF has an adult daughter who has never warmed up to me. (I came along years after the divorce, FWIW. She was in her mid-teens at the time.)

She is now into her 30s, married and has children of her own. Nothing has changed.

She has never been rude or nasty, she just makes it clear she has no interest in knowing me as a person and does not want a relationship with me.

We have never had a significant conversation about anything. When I ask her questions, I get one word or very brief responses. She has never looked me in the eye and always averts her gaze away from me. This is after almost 20 years.

She has never, not once, asked me anything about my life - my family, job, activities. Nothing. Zero interest.

I thought I did all I could; read all the books, asked family counselors questions, did all the things suggested like made sure her and her dad had one-on-one time and went on vacations together, etc.

I never spoke ill of her mother and in fact, her mother has actually been warmer to me than she has. Her mother remarried within a year of the divorce and the daughter had no problem accepting that man.

With her eventual maturity I hoped things would change. They have not. Years ago I accepted that she does not want a relationship with me whatever her reason and I respect that. I have gone grey rock.

If I see her I am polite but I no longer ask questions or try to warm her up - that ship has sailed and I'm not interested in her either.

Simply said, there are some daughters who will NEVER accept another woman in their father's life. My BF's is one of them. He is embarrassed and broken hearted at the way she dismisses me but he knows he can never confront her or else risk losing the fragile relationship he has with her, and now her kids.

The BEST thing I did was not to marry him. Once I realized how his daughter felt I did not want to be in a position where it came to "her or me" type of issues.

The cold hard truth is that many men WILL pick their daughter (even adults) over any other woman in their life, including their second wife, should conflict arise. They would take a crumb or two from their daughter once in awhile and be lonely the rest of the time, rather than invest in a full life with another woman.

As the girlfriend, even the live-in girlfriend, it was easier than being the wife - where I feel I would have had more a legitimate right to my input on finances, vacation time, etc. I also knew I could pack up and leave anytime and go back to my own home. In some way, I think knowing I had an exit path actually kept me in the relationship longer and made me work at it a bit harder.

All I know OP is if you feel there is reluctance on the part of the daughter, that is just the tip of the iceberg. She probably has deep resentments and no amount of time or life events will cure that.

I recently had lunch with a woman who remarried in her 70s to a man in his 80s. There was a prenup and all inheritance issues were not changed one iota. Yet the man's daughter (in her 60s!!) has not accepted this woman's place as her father's wife.

So it doesn't change with time, with age or with circumstance.

This young woman will never accept you and it will always be a wedge in your relationship you have no way to remedy and no control over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever you do don't marry. Keep living together and keep your finances separate. If possible, keep your own residence too. Rent it out if needed but don't get rid of it.

My BF has an adult daughter who has never warmed up to me. (I came along years after the divorce, FWIW. She was in her mid-teens at the time.)

She is now into her 30s, married and has children of her own. Nothing has changed.

She has never been rude or nasty, she just makes it clear she has no interest in knowing me as a person and does not want a relationship with me.

We have never had a significant conversation about anything. When I ask her questions, I get one word or very brief responses. She has never looked me in the eye and always averts her gaze away from me. This is after almost 20 years.

She has never, not once, asked me anything about my life - my family, job, activities. Nothing. Zero interest.

I thought I did all I could; read all the books, asked family counselors questions, did all the things suggested like made sure her and her dad had one-on-one time and went on vacations together, etc.

I never spoke ill of her mother and in fact, her mother has actually been warmer to me than she has. Her mother remarried within a year of the divorce and the daughter had no problem accepting that man.

With her eventual maturity I hoped things would change. They have not. Years ago I accepted that she does not want a relationship with me whatever her reason and I respect that. I have gone grey rock.

If I see her I am polite but I no longer ask questions or try to warm her up - that ship has sailed and I'm not interested in her either.

Simply said, there are some daughters who will NEVER accept another woman in their father's life. My BF's is one of them. He is embarrassed and broken hearted at the way she dismisses me but he knows he can never confront her or else risk losing the fragile relationship he has with her, and now her kids.

The BEST thing I did was not to marry him. Once I realized how his daughter felt I did not want to be in a position where it came to "her or me" type of issues.

The cold hard truth is that many men WILL pick their daughter (even adults) over any other woman in their life, including their second wife, should conflict arise. They would take a crumb or two from their daughter once in awhile and be lonely the rest of the time, rather than invest in a full life with another woman.

As the girlfriend, even the live-in girlfriend, it was easier than being the wife - where I feel I would have had more a legitimate right to my input on finances, vacation time, etc. I also knew I could pack up and leave anytime and go back to my own home. In some way, I think knowing I had an exit path actually kept me in the relationship longer and made me work at it a bit harder.

All I know OP is if you feel there is reluctance on the part of the daughter, that is just the tip of the iceberg. She probably has deep resentments and no amount of time or life events will cure that.

I recently had lunch with a woman who remarried in her 70s to a man in his 80s. There was a prenup and all inheritance issues were not changed one iota. Yet the man's daughter (in her 60s!!) has not accepted this woman's place as her father's wife.

So it doesn't change with time, with age or with circumstance.

This young woman will never accept you and it will always be a wedge in your relationship you have no way to remedy and no control over.

Do you live with your boyfriend? Do you have your own place? What do you do when his daughter, husband, and kids come over? Do you guys celebrate holidays together? Were you invited to his daughter's wedding? When he visits his daugther, do you stay back? Will you stay involved if he gets terminally ill first, or retract to your own place and let his kids take over?

[Anonymous]

The bottom line is, people don't have to like the person you married just because you married them. People should be polite and respectful, but expecting a genuine family feeling is asking too much. I've been dealing with my parents' bad dating and remarriage choices for 35 of my 40 years on this earth, and I'm tired of it. Tired of trying to make things go well. Tired of being flexible, tired of being accommodating, tired of feigning interest in people I really don't care about. I have my own husband and children now and I feel an obligation to my father and mother, but to take any interest in their partners is just not something I have the energy for anymore. They can be married. Hope it works out. It's not really of interest to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever you do don't marry. Keep living together and keep your finances separate. If possible, keep your own residence too. Rent it out if needed but don't get rid of it.

My BF has an adult daughter who has never warmed up to me. (I came along years after the divorce, FWIW. She was in her mid-teens at the time.)

She is now into her 30s, married and has children of her own. Nothing has changed.

She has never been rude or nasty, she just makes it clear she has no interest in knowing me as a person and does not want a relationship with me.

We have never had a significant conversation about anything. When I ask her questions, I get one word or very brief responses. She has never looked me in the eye and always averts her gaze away from me. This is after almost 20 years.

She has never, not once, asked me anything about my life - my family, job, activities. Nothing. Zero interest.

I thought I did all I could; read all the books, asked family counselors questions, did all the things suggested like made sure her and her dad had one-on-one time and went on vacations together, etc.

I never spoke ill of her mother and in fact, her mother has actually been warmer to me than she has. Her mother remarried within a year of the divorce and the daughter had no problem accepting that man.

With her eventual maturity I hoped things would change. They have not. Years ago I accepted that she does not want a relationship with me whatever her reason and I respect that. I have gone grey rock.

If I see her I am polite but I no longer ask questions or try to warm her up - that ship has sailed and I'm not interested in her either.

Simply said, there are some daughters who will NEVER accept another woman in their father's life. My BF's is one of them. He is embarrassed and broken hearted at the way she dismisses me but he knows he can never confront her or else risk losing the fragile relationship he has with her, and now her kids.

The BEST thing I did was not to marry him. Once I realized how his daughter felt I did not want to be in a position where it came to "her or me" type of issues.

The cold hard truth is that many men WILL pick their daughter (even adults) over any other woman in their life, including their second wife, should conflict arise. They would take a crumb or two from their daughter once in awhile and be lonely the rest of the time, rather than invest in a full life with another woman.

As the girlfriend, even the live-in girlfriend, it was easier than being the wife - where I feel I would have had more a legitimate right to my input on finances, vacation time, etc. I also knew I could pack up and leave anytime and go back to my own home. In some way, I think knowing I had an exit path actually kept me in the relationship longer and made me work at it a bit harder.

All I know OP is if you feel there is reluctance on the part of the daughter, that is just the tip of the iceberg. She probably has deep resentments and no amount of time or life events will cure that.

I recently had lunch with a woman who remarried in her 70s to a man in his 80s. There was a prenup and all inheritance issues were not changed one iota. Yet the man's daughter (in her 60s!!) has not accepted this woman's place as her father's wife.

So it doesn't change with time, with age or with circumstance.

This young woman will never accept you and it will always be a wedge in your relationship you have no way to remedy and no control over.

OP here. I appreciate this so much. I think it might be better for us just to live together or perhaps have a ceremony without getting legally married. From reading here, it seems that this can cause all sorts of issues down the road. My boyfriend spends quite a bit of time with his daughter (special visits, vacations etc.) and I have no problem with this at all. In fact, I also enjoy spending one-on-one time with my own child so this works well for me. I cannot predict what the future holds and how this young lady will feel towards me. I can only be myself and take one day at the time. I'm a good person. I'm generous and likeable and I realize that I cannot control the emotions or feelings of others towards me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever you do don't marry. Keep living together and keep your finances separate. If possible, keep your own residence too. Rent it out if needed but don't get rid of it.

My BF has an adult daughter who has never warmed up to me. (I came along years after the divorce, FWIW. She was in her mid-teens at the time.)

She is now into her 30s, married and has children of her own. Nothing has changed.

She has never been rude or nasty, she just makes it clear she has no interest in knowing me as a person and does not want a relationship with me.

We have never had a significant conversation about anything. When I ask her questions, I get one word or very brief responses. She has never looked me in the eye and always averts her gaze away from me. This is after almost 20 years.

She has never, not once, asked me anything about my life - my family, job, activities. Nothing. Zero interest.

I thought I did all I could; read all the books, asked family counselors questions, did all the things suggested like made sure her and her dad had one-on-one time and went on vacations together, etc.

I never spoke ill of her mother and in fact, her mother has actually been warmer to me than she has. Her mother remarried within a year of the divorce and the daughter had no problem accepting that man.

With her eventual maturity I hoped things would change. They have not. Years ago I accepted that she does not want a relationship with me whatever her reason and I respect that. I have gone grey rock.

If I see her I am polite but I no longer ask questions or try to warm her up - that ship has sailed and I'm not interested in her either.

Simply said, there are some daughters who will NEVER accept another woman in their father's life. My BF's is one of them. He is embarrassed and broken hearted at the way she dismisses me but he knows he can never confront her or else risk losing the fragile relationship he has with her, and now her kids.

The BEST thing I did was not to marry him. Once I realized how his daughter felt I did not want to be in a position where it came to "her or me" type of issues.

The cold hard truth is that many men WILL pick their daughter (even adults) over any other woman in their life, including their second wife, should conflict arise. They would take a crumb or two from their daughter once in awhile and be lonely the rest of the time, rather than invest in a full life with another woman.

As the girlfriend, even the live-in girlfriend, it was easier than being the wife - where I feel I would have had more a legitimate right to my input on finances, vacation time, etc. I also knew I could pack up and leave anytime and go back to my own home. In some way, I think knowing I had an exit path actually kept me in the relationship longer and made me work at it a bit harder.

All I know OP is if you feel there is reluctance on the part of the daughter, that is just the tip of the iceberg. She probably has deep resentments and no amount of time or life events will cure that.

I recently had lunch with a woman who remarried in her 70s to a man in his 80s. There was a prenup and all inheritance issues were not changed one iota. Yet the man's daughter (in her 60s!!) has not accepted this woman's place as her father's wife.

So it doesn't change with time, with age or with circumstance.

This young woman will never accept you and it will always be a wedge in your relationship you have no way to remedy and no control over.

OP here. I appreciate this so much. I think it might be better for us just to live together or perhaps have a ceremony without getting legally married. From reading here, it seems that this can cause all sorts of issues down the road. My boyfriend spends quite a bit of time with his daughter (special visits, vacations etc.) and I have no problem with this at all. In fact, I also enjoy spending one-on-one time with my own child so this works well for me. I cannot predict what the future holds and how this young lady will feel towards me. I can only be myself and take one day at the time. I'm a good person. I'm generous and likeable and I realize that I cannot control the emotions or feelings of others towards me.

See, here's what you're missing. The world is full of good people. People who are generous and likeable. But that's not enough. Finding someone generous and likeable isn't saying "I want this person to be at all my family events forever, I want to spend time with their adult child, I want them in the most intimate moments of my parents' life, I want them to have a tremendous amount of influence over my parent." That's wayyyy more than finding someone generous and likeable! Not everyone likes everyone enough to support a stepfamily relationship, that's the bottom line here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is, people don't have to like the person you married just because you married them. People should be polite and respectful, but expecting a genuine family feeling is asking too much. I've been dealing with my parents' bad dating and remarriage choices for 35 of my 40 years on this earth, and I'm tired of it. Tired of trying to make things go well. Tired of being flexible, tired of being accommodating, tired of feigning interest in people I really don't care about. I have my own husband and children now and I feel an obligation to my father and mother, but to take any interest in their partners is just not something I have the energy for anymore. They can be married. Hope it works out. It's not really of interest to me.

OP here. This is true and I'm sorry that you had to go through this almost your entire life. I feel that I have enriched my boyfriend's life as well as the lives of his children, but in the end, it is up to them to accept me or just tolerate me. Reading through these replies has been eye-opening to me and I think that I will move forward with just concentrating on my own child and the relationship with my boyfriend. It would be great if all others things fall into place as well, but if they aren't, then it's not the end of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever you do don't marry. Keep living together and keep your finances separate. If possible, keep your own residence too. Rent it out if needed but don't get rid of it.

My BF has an adult daughter who has never warmed up to me. (I came along years after the divorce, FWIW. She was in her mid-teens at the time.)

She is now into her 30s, married and has children of her own. Nothing has changed.

She has never been rude or nasty, she just makes it clear she has no interest in knowing me as a person and does not want a relationship with me.

We have never had a significant conversation about anything. When I ask her questions, I get one word or very brief responses. She has never looked me in the eye and always averts her gaze away from me. This is after almost 20 years.

She has never, not once, asked me anything about my life - my family, job, activities. Nothing. Zero interest.

I thought I did all I could; read all the books, asked family counselors questions, did all the things suggested like made sure her and her dad had one-on-one time and went on vacations together, etc.

I never spoke ill of her mother and in fact, her mother has actually been warmer to me than she has. Her mother remarried within a year of the divorce and the daughter had no problem accepting that man.

With her eventual maturity I hoped things would change. They have not. Years ago I accepted that she does not want a relationship with me whatever her reason and I respect that. I have gone grey rock.

If I see her I am polite but I no longer ask questions or try to warm her up - that ship has sailed and I'm not interested in her either.

Simply said, there are some daughters who will NEVER accept another woman in their father's life. My BF's is one of them. He is embarrassed and broken hearted at the way she dismisses me but he knows he can never confront her or else risk losing the fragile relationship he has with her, and now her kids.

The BEST thing I did was not to marry him. Once I realized how his daughter felt I did not want to be in a position where it came to "her or me" type of issues.

The cold hard truth is that many men WILL pick their daughter (even adults) over any other woman in their life, including their second wife, should conflict arise. They would take a crumb or two from their daughter once in awhile and be lonely the rest of the time, rather than invest in a full life with another woman.

As the girlfriend, even the live-in girlfriend, it was easier than being the wife - where I feel I would have had more a legitimate right to my input on finances, vacation time, etc. I also knew I could pack up and leave anytime and go back to my own home. In some way, I think knowing I had an exit path actually kept me in the relationship longer and made me work at it a bit harder.

All I know OP is if you feel there is reluctance on the part of the daughter, that is just the tip of the iceberg. She probably has deep resentments and no amount of time or life events will cure that.

I recently had lunch with a woman who remarried in her 70s to a man in his 80s. There was a prenup and all inheritance issues were not changed one iota. Yet the man's daughter (in her 60s!!) has not accepted this woman's place as her father's wife.

So it doesn't change with time, with age or with circumstance.

This young woman will never accept you and it will always be a wedge in your relationship you have no way to remedy and no control over.

OP here. I appreciate this so much. I think it might be better for us just to live together or perhaps have a ceremony without getting legally married. From reading here, it seems that this can cause all sorts of issues down the road. My boyfriend spends quite a bit of time with his daughter (special visits, vacations etc.) and I have no problem with this at all. In fact, I also enjoy spending one-on-one time with my own child so this works well for me. I cannot predict what the future holds and how this young lady will feel towards me. I can only be myself and take one day at the time. I'm a good person. I'm generous and likeable and I realize that I cannot control the emotions or feelings of others towards me.

See, here's what you're missing. The world is full of good people. People who are generous and likeable. But that's not enough. Finding someone generous and likeable isn't saying "I want this person to be at all my family events forever, I want to spend time with their adult child, I want them in the most intimate moments of my parents' life, I want them to have a tremendous amount of influence over my parent." That's wayyyy more than finding someone generous and likeable! Not everyone likes everyone enough to support a stepfamily relationship, that's the bottom line here.

Well, that is the downside of divorce, isn't it? There are no more intimate moments of their parents' life because they are divorced. I'm from a divorced family and I remember my father dating and it was hard seeing him affectionate and loving with someone else who was not my mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever you do don't marry. Keep living together and keep your finances separate. If possible, keep your own residence too. Rent it out if needed but don't get rid of it.

My BF has an adult daughter who has never warmed up to me. (I came along years after the divorce, FWIW. She was in her mid-teens at the time.)

She is now into her 30s, married and has children of her own. Nothing has changed.

She has never been rude or nasty, she just makes it clear she has no interest in knowing me as a person and does not want a relationship with me.

We have never had a significant conversation about anything. When I ask her questions, I get one word or very brief responses. She has never looked me in the eye and always averts her gaze away from me. This is after almost 20 years.

She has never, not once, asked me anything about my life - my family, job, activities. Nothing. Zero interest.

I thought I did all I could; read all the books, asked family counselors questions, did all the things suggested like made sure her and her dad had one-on-one time and went on vacations together, etc.

I never spoke ill of her mother and in fact, her mother has actually been warmer to me than she has. Her mother remarried within a year of the divorce and the daughter had no problem accepting that man.

With her eventual maturity I hoped things would change. They have not. Years ago I accepted that she does not want a relationship with me whatever her reason and I respect that. I have gone grey rock.

If I see her I am polite but I no longer ask questions or try to warm her up - that ship has sailed and I'm not interested in her either.

Simply said, there are some daughters who will NEVER accept another woman in their father's life. My BF's is one of them. He is embarrassed and broken hearted at the way she dismisses me but he knows he can never confront her or else risk losing the fragile relationship he has with her, and now her kids.

The BEST thing I did was not to marry him. Once I realized how his daughter felt I did not want to be in a position where it came to "her or me" type of issues.

The cold hard truth is that many men WILL pick their daughter (even adults) over any other woman in their life, including their second wife, should conflict arise. They would take a crumb or two from their daughter once in awhile and be lonely the rest of the time, rather than invest in a full life with another woman.

As the girlfriend, even the live-in girlfriend, it was easier than being the wife - where I feel I would have had more a legitimate right to my input on finances, vacation time, etc. I also knew I could pack up and leave anytime and go back to my own home. In some way, I think knowing I had an exit path actually kept me in the relationship longer and made me work at it a bit harder.

All I know OP is if you feel there is reluctance on the part of the daughter, that is just the tip of the iceberg. She probably has deep resentments and no amount of time or life events will cure that.

I recently had lunch with a woman who remarried in her 70s to a man in his 80s. There was a prenup and all inheritance issues were not changed one iota. Yet the man's daughter (in her 60s!!) has not accepted this woman's place as her father's wife.

So it doesn't change with time, with age or with circumstance.

This young woman will never accept you and it will always be a wedge in your relationship you have no way to remedy and no control over.

OP here. I appreciate this so much. I think it might be better for us just to live together or perhaps have a ceremony without getting legally married. From reading here, it seems that this can cause all sorts of issues down the road. My boyfriend spends quite a bit of time with his daughter (special visits, vacations etc.) and I have no problem with this at all. In fact, I also enjoy spending one-on-one time with my own child so this works well for me. I cannot predict what the future holds and how this young lady will feel towards me. I can only be myself and take one day at the time. I'm a good person. I'm generous and likeable and I realize that I cannot control the emotions or feelings of others towards me.

See, here's what you're missing. The world is full of good people. People who are generous and likeable. But that's not enough. Finding someone generous and likeable isn't saying "I want this person to be at all my family events forever, I want to spend time with their adult child, I want them in the most intimate moments of my parents' life, I want them to have a tremendous amount of influence over my parent." That's wayyyy more than finding someone generous and likeable! Not everyone likes everyone enough to support a stepfamily relationship, that's the bottom line here.

Well, that is the downside of divorce, isn't it? There are no more intimate moments of their parents' life because they are divorced. I'm from a divorced family and I remember my father dating and it was hard seeing him affectionate and loving with someone else who was not my mother.

It's not really about that. It's about having my dad's wife, then his next wife, then his next girlfriend, pushed into all of our family moments. In the hospital after babies are born. In wedding photos. At sickbeds and funerals and all that stuff. It's not because I wanted my mom there-- she's actually really hard to deal with and it's easier if she isn't. It's because I'm tired of having new partners constantly pushed into our family. I would rather have just my actual family. It's far more complicated when you've got to treat a strange person as Wife as if she's the mother of the family. It's very weird and awkward.

But the point is, anyway, that OP being generous and likeable isn't enough to cause people to want that kind of intimate family relationship with her. Because I can think of hundreds of people I find generous and likeable, but I don't want that kind of relationship with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever you do don't marry. Keep living together and keep your finances separate. If possible, keep your own residence too. Rent it out if needed but don't get rid of it.

My BF has an adult daughter who has never warmed up to me. (I came along years after the divorce, FWIW. She was in her mid-teens at the time.)

She is now into her 30s, married and has children of her own. Nothing has changed.

She has never been rude or nasty, she just makes it clear she has no interest in knowing me as a person and does not want a relationship with me.

We have never had a significant conversation about anything. When I ask her questions, I get one word or very brief responses. She has never looked me in the eye and always averts her gaze away from me. This is after almost 20 years.

She has never, not once, asked me anything about my life - my family, job, activities. Nothing. Zero interest.

I thought I did all I could; read all the books, asked family counselors questions, did all the things suggested like made sure her and her dad had one-on-one time and went on vacations together, etc.

I never spoke ill of her mother and in fact, her mother has actually been warmer to me than she has. Her mother remarried within a year of the divorce and the daughter had no problem accepting that man.

With her eventual maturity I hoped things would change. They have not. Years ago I accepted that she does not want a relationship with me whatever her reason and I respect that. I have gone grey rock.

If I see her I am polite but I no longer ask questions or try to warm her up - that ship has sailed and I'm not interested in her either.

Simply said, there are some daughters who will NEVER accept another woman in their father's life. My BF's is one of them. He is embarrassed and broken hearted at the way she dismisses me but he knows he can never confront her or else risk losing the fragile relationship he has with her, and now her kids.

The BEST thing I did was not to marry him. Once I realized how his daughter felt I did not want to be in a position where it came to "her or me" type of issues.

The cold hard truth is that many men WILL pick their daughter (even adults) over any other woman in their life, including their second wife, should conflict arise. They would take a crumb or two from their daughter once in awhile and be lonely the rest of the time, rather than invest in a full life with another woman.

As the girlfriend, even the live-in girlfriend, it was easier than being the wife - where I feel I would have had more a legitimate right to my input on finances, vacation time, etc. I also knew I could pack up and leave anytime and go back to my own home. In some way, I think knowing I had an exit path actually kept me in the relationship longer and made me work at it a bit harder.

All I know OP is if you feel there is reluctance on the part of the daughter, that is just the tip of the iceberg. She probably has deep resentments and no amount of time or life events will cure that.

I recently had lunch with a woman who remarried in her 70s to a man in his 80s. There was a prenup and all inheritance issues were not changed one iota. Yet the man's daughter (in her 60s!!) has not accepted this woman's place as her father's wife.

So it doesn't change with time, with age or with circumstance.

This young woman will never accept you and it will always be a wedge in your relationship you have no way to remedy and no control over.

OP here. I appreciate this so much. I think it might be better for us just to live together or perhaps have a ceremony without getting legally married. From reading here, it seems that this can cause all sorts of issues down the road. My boyfriend spends quite a bit of time with his daughter (special visits, vacations etc.) and I have no problem with this at all. In fact, I also enjoy spending one-on-one time with my own child so this works well for me. I cannot predict what the future holds and how this young lady will feel towards me. I can only be myself and take one day at the time. I'm a good person. I'm generous and likeable and I realize that I cannot control the emotions or feelings of others towards me.

See, here's what you're missing. The world is full of good people. People who are generous and likeable. But that's not enough. Finding someone generous and likeable isn't saying "I want this person to be at all my family events forever, I want to spend time with their adult child, I want them in the most intimate moments of my parents' life, I want them to have a tremendous amount of influence over my parent." That's wayyyy more than finding someone generous and likeable! Not everyone likes everyone enough to support a stepfamily relationship, that's the bottom line here.

Well, that is the downside of divorce, isn't it? There are no more intimate moments of their parents' life because they are divorced. I'm from a divorced family and I remember my father dating and it was hard seeing him affectionate and loving with someone else who was not my mother.

It's not really about that. It's about having my dad's wife, then his next wife, then his next girlfriend, pushed into all of our family moments. In the hospital after babies are born. In wedding photos. At sickbeds and funerals and all that stuff. It's not because I wanted my mom there-- she's actually really hard to deal with and it's easier if she isn't. It's because I'm tired of having new partners constantly pushed into our family. I would rather have just my actual family. It's far more complicated when you've got to treat a strange person as Wife as if she's the mother of the family. It's very weird and awkward.

But the point is, anyway, that OP being generous and likeable isn't enough to cause people to want that kind of intimate family relationship with her. Because I can think of hundreds of people I find generous and likeable, but I don't want that kind of relationship with them.

I understand this and I think that these valid concerns and honestly, I would not like this either. It sounds like your father had multiple relationships after he divorced your Mom and pushing these women in your life during special events is inappropriate. I'm sorry that this happened, but this is not the case with everyone Not every man gets involved with multiple women and many men end up in happy in successful relationships again. I have quite a few co-workers (male and female who are very happy with their new partners after divorces). I'm not interested in a super intimate relationship with my boyfriend's daughter. She has a mother and her mother should be the one by her side during those special events. I have no interest or desire to step into this role. It would be super awkward to be there during the birth of a baby etc. The reality though is that her father has moved on (I'm not his first post-divorce relationship though he only had one other LTR) and she will need to get used to a new person in her father's life whether that is me or another woman. He would most definitely not stay single just to please his daughter. My only request is that we respect each other mutually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever you do don't marry. Keep living together and keep your finances separate. If possible, keep your own residence too. Rent it out if needed but don't get rid of it.

My BF has an adult daughter who has never warmed up to me. (I came along years after the divorce, FWIW. She was in her mid-teens at the time.)

She is now into her 30s, married and has children of her own. Nothing has changed.

She has never been rude or nasty, she just makes it clear she has no interest in knowing me as a person and does not want a relationship with me.

We have never had a significant conversation about anything. When I ask her questions, I get one word or very brief responses. She has never looked me in the eye and always averts her gaze away from me. This is after almost 20 years.

She has never, not once, asked me anything about my life - my family, job, activities. Nothing. Zero interest.

I thought I did all I could; read all the books, asked family counselors questions, did all the things suggested like made sure her and her dad had one-on-one time and went on vacations together, etc.

I never spoke ill of her mother and in fact, her mother has actually been warmer to me than she has. Her mother remarried within a year of the divorce and the daughter had no problem accepting that man.

With her eventual maturity I hoped things would change. They have not. Years ago I accepted that she does not want a relationship with me whatever her reason and I respect that. I have gone grey rock.

If I see her I am polite but I no longer ask questions or try to warm her up - that ship has sailed and I'm not interested in her either.

Simply said, there are some daughters who will NEVER accept another woman in their father's life. My BF's is one of them. He is embarrassed and broken hearted at the way she dismisses me but he knows he can never confront her or else risk losing the fragile relationship he has with her, and now her kids.

The BEST thing I did was not to marry him. Once I realized how his daughter felt I did not want to be in a position where it came to "her or me" type of issues.

The cold hard truth is that many men WILL pick their daughter (even adults) over any other woman in their life, including their second wife, should conflict arise. They would take a crumb or two from their daughter once in awhile and be lonely the rest of the time, rather than invest in a full life with another woman.

As the girlfriend, even the live-in girlfriend, it was easier than being the wife - where I feel I would have had more a legitimate right to my input on finances, vacation time, etc. I also knew I could pack up and leave anytime and go back to my own home. In some way, I think knowing I had an exit path actually kept me in the relationship longer and made me work at it a bit harder.

All I know OP is if you feel there is reluctance on the part of the daughter, that is just the tip of the iceberg. She probably has deep resentments and no amount of time or life events will cure that.

I recently had lunch with a woman who remarried in her 70s to a man in his 80s. There was a prenup and all inheritance issues were not changed one iota. Yet the man's daughter (in her 60s!!) has not accepted this woman's place as her father's wife.

So it doesn't change with time, with age or with circumstance.

This young woman will never accept you and it will always be a wedge in your relationship you have no way to remedy and no control over.

OP here. I appreciate this so much. I think it might be better for us just to live together or perhaps have a ceremony without getting legally married. From reading here, it seems that this can cause all sorts of issues down the road. My boyfriend spends quite a bit of time with his daughter (special visits, vacations etc.) and I have no problem with this at all. In fact, I also enjoy spending one-on-one time with my own child so this works well for me. I cannot predict what the future holds and how this young lady will feel towards me. I can only be myself and take one day at the time. I'm a good person. I'm generous and likeable and I realize that I cannot control the emotions or feelings of others towards me.

See, here's what you're missing. The world is full of good people. People who are generous and likeable. But that's not enough. Finding someone generous and likeable isn't saying "I want this person to be at all my family events forever, I want to spend time with their adult child, I want them in the most intimate moments of my parents' life, I want them to have a tremendous amount of influence over my parent." That's wayyyy more than finding someone generous and likeable! Not everyone likes everyone enough to support a stepfamily relationship, that's the bottom line here.

Well, that is the downside of divorce, isn't it? There are no more intimate moments of their parents' life because they are divorced. I'm from a divorced family and I remember my father dating and it was hard seeing him affectionate and loving with someone else who was not my mother.

It's not really about that. It's about having my dad's wife, then his next wife, then his next girlfriend, pushed into all of our family moments. In the hospital after babies are born. In wedding photos. At sickbeds and funerals and all that stuff. It's not because I wanted my mom there-- she's actually really hard to deal with and it's easier if she isn't. It's because I'm tired of having new partners constantly pushed into our family. I would rather have just my actual family. It's far more complicated when you've got to treat a strange person as Wife as if she's the mother of the family. It's very weird and awkward.

But the point is, anyway, that OP being generous and likeable isn't enough to cause people to want that kind of intimate family relationship with her. Because I can think of hundreds of people I find generous and likeable, but I don't want that kind of relationship with them.

I understand this and I think that these valid concerns and honestly, I would not like this either. It sounds like your father had multiple relationships after he divorced your Mom and pushing these women in your life during special events is inappropriate. I'm sorry that this happened, but this is not the case with everyone Not every man gets involved with multiple women and many men end up in happy in successful relationships again. I have quite a few co-workers (male and female who are very happy with their new partners after divorces). I'm not interested in a super intimate relationship with my boyfriend's daughter. She has a mother and her mother should be the one by her side during those special events. I have no interest or desire to step into this role. It would be super awkward to be there during the birth of a baby etc. The reality though is that her father has moved on (I'm not his first post-divorce relationship though he only had one other LTR) and she will need to get used to a new person in her father's life whether that is me or another woman. He would most definitely not stay single just to please his daughter. My only request is that we respect each other mutually.

He may not stay single to please his daughter, but he may let her drive women away. How does she disrespect you? Does she come to your house where he's now living (seems unreasonable if there isn't mutual respect), or does he go to her house for visits? You might encourage him to visit her rather than host her at your house if it's a strained relationship. Just as she's not required to welcome you into "her" family, you're not required to welcome her into your home. It's fine to let your DH compartmentalize. His relationship with her can be separate from his relationship with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever you do don't marry. Keep living together and keep your finances separate. If possible, keep your own residence too. Rent it out if needed but don't get rid of it.

My BF has an adult daughter who has never warmed up to me. (I came along years after the divorce, FWIW. She was in her mid-teens at the time.)

She is now into her 30s, married and has children of her own. Nothing has changed.

She has never been rude or nasty, she just makes it clear she has no interest in knowing me as a person and does not want a relationship with me.

We have never had a significant conversation about anything. When I ask her questions, I get one word or very brief responses. She has never looked me in the eye and always averts her gaze away from me. This is after almost 20 years.

She has never, not once, asked me anything about my life - my family, job, activities. Nothing. Zero interest.

I thought I did all I could; read all the books, asked family counselors questions, did all the things suggested like made sure her and her dad had one-on-one time and went on vacations together, etc.

I never spoke ill of her mother and in fact, her mother has actually been warmer to me than she has. Her mother remarried within a year of the divorce and the daughter had no problem accepting that man.

With her eventual maturity I hoped things would change. They have not. Years ago I accepted that she does not want a relationship with me whatever her reason and I respect that. I have gone grey rock.

If I see her I am polite but I no longer ask questions or try to warm her up - that ship has sailed and I'm not interested in her either.

Simply said, there are some daughters who will NEVER accept another woman in their father's life. My BF's is one of them. He is embarrassed and broken hearted at the way she dismisses me but he knows he can never confront her or else risk losing the fragile relationship he has with her, and now her kids.

The BEST thing I did was not to marry him. Once I realized how his daughter felt I did not want to be in a position where it came to "her or me" type of issues.

The cold hard truth is that many men WILL pick their daughter (even adults) over any other woman in their life, including their second wife, should conflict arise. They would take a crumb or two from their daughter once in awhile and be lonely the rest of the time, rather than invest in a full life with another woman.

As the girlfriend, even the live-in girlfriend, it was easier than being the wife - where I feel I would have had more a legitimate right to my input on finances, vacation time, etc. I also knew I could pack up and leave anytime and go back to my own home. In some way, I think knowing I had an exit path actually kept me in the relationship longer and made me work at it a bit harder.

All I know OP is if you feel there is reluctance on the part of the daughter, that is just the tip of the iceberg. She probably has deep resentments and no amount of time or life events will cure that.

I recently had lunch with a woman who remarried in her 70s to a man in his 80s. There was a prenup and all inheritance issues were not changed one iota. Yet the man's daughter (in her 60s!!) has not accepted this woman's place as her father's wife.

So it doesn't change with time, with age or with circumstance.

This young woman will never accept you and it will always be a wedge in your relationship you have no way to remedy and no control over.

OP here. I appreciate this so much. I think it might be better for us just to live together or perhaps have a ceremony without getting legally married. From reading here, it seems that this can cause all sorts of issues down the road. My boyfriend spends quite a bit of time with his daughter (special visits, vacations etc.) and I have no problem with this at all. In fact, I also enjoy spending one-on-one time with my own child so this works well for me. I cannot predict what the future holds and how this young lady will feel towards me. I can only be myself and take one day at the time. I'm a good person. I'm generous and likeable and I realize that I cannot control the emotions or feelings of others towards me.

See, here's what you're missing. The world is full of good people. People who are generous and likeable. But that's not enough. Finding someone generous and likeable isn't saying "I want this person to be at all my family events forever, I want to spend time with their adult child, I want them in the most intimate moments of my parents' life, I want them to have a tremendous amount of influence over my parent." That's wayyyy more than finding someone generous and likeable! Not everyone likes everyone enough to support a stepfamily relationship, that's the bottom line here.

Well, that is the downside of divorce, isn't it? There are no more intimate moments of their parents' life because they are divorced. I'm from a divorced family and I remember my father dating and it was hard seeing him affectionate and loving with someone else who was not my mother.

It's not really about that. It's about having my dad's wife, then his next wife, then his next girlfriend, pushed into all of our family moments. In the hospital after babies are born. In wedding photos. At sickbeds and funerals and all that stuff. It's not because I wanted my mom there-- she's actually really hard to deal with and it's easier if she isn't. It's because I'm tired of having new partners constantly pushed into our family. I would rather have just my actual family. It's far more complicated when you've got to treat a strange person as Wife as if she's the mother of the family. It's very weird and awkward.

But the point is, anyway, that OP being generous and likeable isn't enough to cause people to want that kind of intimate family relationship with her. Because I can think of hundreds of people I find generous and likeable, but I don't want that kind of relationship with them.

I understand this and I think that these valid concerns and honestly, I would not like this either. It sounds like your father had multiple relationships after he divorced your Mom and pushing these women in your life during special events is inappropriate. I'm sorry that this happened, but this is not the case with everyone Not every man gets involved with multiple women and many men end up in happy in successful relationships again. I have quite a few co-workers (male and female who are very happy with their new partners after divorces). I'm not interested in a super intimate relationship with my boyfriend's daughter. She has a mother and her mother should be the one by her side during those special events. I have no interest or desire to step into this role. It would be super awkward to be there during the birth of a baby etc. The reality though is that her father has moved on (I'm not his first post-divorce relationship though he only had one other LTR) and she will need to get used to a new person in her father's life whether that is me or another woman. He would most definitely not stay single just to please his daughter. My only request is that we respect each other mutually.

He may not stay single to please his daughter, but he may let her drive women away. How does she disrespect you? Does she come to your house where he's now living (seems unreasonable if there isn't mutual respect), or does he go to her house for visits? You might encourage him to visit her rather than host her at your house if it's a strained relationship. Just as she's not required to welcome you into "her" family, you're not required to welcome her into your home. It's fine to let your DH compartmentalize. His relationship with her can be separate from his relationship with you.

She does not disrespect me at all; we actually have a pretty good relationship and she does not do anything to drive me away. She visits us at our place and all visits are usually fun and pleasant. He also spends lots of alone time with her which is good for both of them. During Spring break, he took a nice vacation with her and her sibling while I took my child on a separate trip. I think this is a nice way of balancing things. It is just that I can tell some sadness in her especially when her father is affectionate with me. I try to keep PDA's from my boyfriend (he loves to be affectionate) at a minimum when she is with us because I can tell that this is difficult for her.