Prepping for aptitude/iq tests

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My sister paid for her son to a prep class but stopped it because they just go over questions from commercially available practice books. She and her husband prepped my nephew for a few month and he got 160 NNAT and 140+ cogat.

Under their advice, I prepped my son (one grade behind his cousin) with practice book. The only prep was scoring his practice and going over the wrong answers with him. The questions are straight forward, the only thing I "taught" him was process of elimination. My son got the similar result as his cousin.

I think it's mainly up to the kids to perform.

Why did you and your sister think your kids needed prepping to get a high score?

Because we are responsible parents.

+1. Prepping is NOT a crime. It just makes kids smarter than before… and so what? If you think it gives others an “advantage” then prep your kid yourself… Prepping does nothing other than give more knowledge. And that’s what you’re in school for right? To learn. Why can’t we learn at home too? Again. Prepping is allowed, makes kids knowledgeable, and NOT a crime!

Nobody said it was a crime, but you are cheating to try to game the system. Aptitude/IQ tests are not designed to be prepped for, and doing so invalidates the results. You know this, or you wouldn’t have prepped your kids to try to inflate their score to get them into a program they likely don’t belong in. You’re the reason this whole “holistic” process now weighs the HOPE score so heavily. The testing can’t be trusted anymore.

Where does it say that it is cheating?

Some people just think IT IS OKAY TO do private lessons for swimming or baseball or basketball but prep for AAP is CHEATING!

Yes, most people train and practice for sports. Most students study for subject tests on academics, and many hire tutors to achieve mastery of curriculum. That’s not cheating, that’s called learning. Aptitude/IQ tests, however, are something different, as they are intended to accurately measure innate strengths and weaknesses to identify giftedness, intellectual or learning disability, etc. Prepping for such tests invalidates accuracy, which is clearly the intent of pepper parents like yourself.

Do you have a source or just your understanding?

The wisc-v administration and scoring manual, the testing parameters delineated by clinicians administering the tests, and basic knowledge of protocols for IQ testing. You can also google it yourself to find the answer.

It’s nowhere in google.

If you cite your sources you’ll positively contribute to the discussion, and actually put an end to it.

Now knowing the actual test questions beforehand is certainly cheating, but I think it’s clear no one here is talking about the actual test questions.

Again, please help by providing the citations.

DP here, "nowhere in google" my a$$

Googled "does prepping a child for the cogat affect the accuracy of the results" and it summarizes the results as:

"Yes, prepping a child for the CogAT (Cognitive Abilities Test) can affect the accuracy of the results, though the extent varies. While some practice can familiarize children with the test format and reduce anxiety, excessive preparation may artificially inflate scores and potentially mask a child's true cognitive abilities."

and concludes with:

"In essence, while some level of preparation can be helpful, it's crucial to avoid excessive practice that could compromise the accuracy of the CogAT results. The goal is to provide a comfortable and familiar environment for the child to showcase their natural cognitive abilities"

That's obviously just Google's AI summary of the various linked docs, and I didn't see any links to specific studies or peer-reviewed research, but perhaps they exist within the linked pages or deeper in the search results. But it's also just kind of a "yeah no kidding" obvious point, and to say it's "nowhere in google" is quite disingenuous.

You are googling the wrong thing. The claim was that prep invalidates the score. The only thing remotely close to that claim is this sentence from https://www.heliosschool.org/admissions/assessments#:~:text=After%20the%20test%2C%20praise%20their,engagement%20in%20the%20testing%20session.

“Therefore, exposing your student to test content would invalidate the test results and make them ineligible to retest for at least a year.”

Please note: it talks about exposing the child to test content. Knowing the questions beforehand is clearly cheating.

I don’t know where you’d find the actual questions, but we regular folk don’t have access to actual questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister paid for her son to a prep class but stopped it because they just go over questions from commercially available practice books. She and her husband prepped my nephew for a few month and he got 160 NNAT and 140+ cogat.

Under their advice, I prepped my son (one grade behind his cousin) with practice book. The only prep was scoring his practice and going over the wrong answers with him. The questions are straight forward, the only thing I "taught" him was process of elimination. My son got the similar result as his cousin.

I think it's mainly up to the kids to perform.

Why did you and your sister think your kids needed prepping to get a high score?

Because we are responsible parents.

+1. Prepping is NOT a crime. It just makes kids smarter than before… and so what? If you think it gives others an “advantage” then prep your kid yourself… Prepping does nothing other than give more knowledge. And that’s what you’re in school for right? To learn. Why can’t we learn at home too? Again. Prepping is allowed, makes kids knowledgeable, and NOT a crime!

Nobody said it was a crime, but you are cheating to try to game the system. Aptitude/IQ tests are not designed to be prepped for, and doing so invalidates the results. You know this, or you wouldn’t have prepped your kids to try to inflate their score to get them into a program they likely don’t belong in. You’re the reason this whole “holistic” process now weighs the HOPE score so heavily. The testing can’t be trusted anymore.

Where does it say that it is cheating?

Some people just think IT IS OKAY TO do private lessons for swimming or baseball or basketball but prep for AAP is CHEATING!

Yes, most people train and practice for sports. Most students study for subject tests on academics, and many hire tutors to achieve mastery of curriculum. That’s not cheating, that’s called learning. Aptitude/IQ tests, however, are something different, as they are intended to accurately measure innate strengths and weaknesses to identify giftedness, intellectual or learning disability, etc. Prepping for such tests invalidates accuracy, which is clearly the intent of pepper parents like yourself.

Do you have a source or just your understanding?

The wisc-v administration and scoring manual, the testing parameters delineated by clinicians administering the tests, and basic knowledge of protocols for IQ testing. You can also google it yourself to find the answer.

It’s nowhere in google.

If you cite your sources you’ll positively contribute to the discussion, and actually put an end to it.

Now knowing the actual test questions beforehand is certainly cheating, but I think it’s clear no one here is talking about the actual test questions.

Again, please help by providing the citations.

DP here, "nowhere in google" my a$$

Googled "does prepping a child for the cogat affect the accuracy of the results" and it summarizes the results as:

"Yes, prepping a child for the CogAT (Cognitive Abilities Test) can affect the accuracy of the results, though the extent varies. While some practice can familiarize children with the test format and reduce anxiety, excessive preparation may artificially inflate scores and potentially mask a child's true cognitive abilities."

and concludes with:

"In essence, while some level of preparation can be helpful, it's crucial to avoid excessive practice that could compromise the accuracy of the CogAT results. The goal is to provide a comfortable and familiar environment for the child to showcase their natural cognitive abilities"

That's obviously just Google's AI summary of the various linked docs, and I didn't see any links to specific studies or peer-reviewed research, but perhaps they exist within the linked pages or deeper in the search results. But it's also just kind of a "yeah no kidding" obvious point, and to say it's "nowhere in google" is quite disingenuous.

You are googling the wrong thing. The claim was that prep invalidates the score. The only thing remotely close to that claim is this sentence from https://www.heliosschool.org/admissions/assessments#:~:text=After%20the%20test%2C%20praise%20their,engagement%20in%20the%20testing%20session.

“Therefore, exposing your student to test content would invalidate the test results and make them ineligible to retest for at least a year.”

Please note: it talks about exposing the child to test content. Knowing the questions beforehand is clearly cheating.

I don’t know where you’d find the actual questions, but we regular folk don’t have access to actual questions.

Prepping invalidates accuracy of scoring. You know this or you wouldn’t prep your kid to artificially inflate their score in order to get them into a program they don’t qualify for/need. You’re defensive because you cheated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister paid for her son to a prep class but stopped it because they just go over questions from commercially available practice books. She and her husband prepped my nephew for a few month and he got 160 NNAT and 140+ cogat.

Under their advice, I prepped my son (one grade behind his cousin) with practice book. The only prep was scoring his practice and going over the wrong answers with him. The questions are straight forward, the only thing I "taught" him was process of elimination. My son got the similar result as his cousin.

I think it's mainly up to the kids to perform.

Why did you and your sister think your kids needed prepping to get a high score?

Because we are responsible parents.

+1. Prepping is NOT a crime. It just makes kids smarter than before… and so what? If you think it gives others an “advantage” then prep your kid yourself… Prepping does nothing other than give more knowledge. And that’s what you’re in school for right? To learn. Why can’t we learn at home too? Again. Prepping is allowed, makes kids knowledgeable, and NOT a crime!

Nobody said it was a crime, but you are cheating to try to game the system. Aptitude/IQ tests are not designed to be prepped for, and doing so invalidates the results. You know this, or you wouldn’t have prepped your kids to try to inflate their score to get them into a program they likely don’t belong in. You’re the reason this whole “holistic” process now weighs the HOPE score so heavily. The testing can’t be trusted anymore.

Where does it say that it is cheating?

Some people just think IT IS OKAY TO do private lessons for swimming or baseball or basketball but prep for AAP is CHEATING!

Yes, most people train and practice for sports. Most students study for subject tests on academics, and many hire tutors to achieve mastery of curriculum. That’s not cheating, that’s called learning. Aptitude/IQ tests, however, are something different, as they are intended to accurately measure innate strengths and weaknesses to identify giftedness, intellectual or learning disability, etc. Prepping for such tests invalidates accuracy, which is clearly the intent of pepper parents like yourself.

Do you have a source or just your understanding?

The wisc-v administration and scoring manual, the testing parameters delineated by clinicians administering the tests, and basic knowledge of protocols for IQ testing. You can also google it yourself to find the answer.

It’s nowhere in google.

If you cite your sources you’ll positively contribute to the discussion, and actually put an end to it.

Now knowing the actual test questions beforehand is certainly cheating, but I think it’s clear no one here is talking about the actual test questions.

Again, please help by providing the citations.

DP here, "nowhere in google" my a$$

Googled "does prepping a child for the cogat affect the accuracy of the results" and it summarizes the results as:

"Yes, prepping a child for the CogAT (Cognitive Abilities Test) can affect the accuracy of the results, though the extent varies. While some practice can familiarize children with the test format and reduce anxiety, excessive preparation may artificially inflate scores and potentially mask a child's true cognitive abilities."

and concludes with:

"In essence, while some level of preparation can be helpful, it's crucial to avoid excessive practice that could compromise the accuracy of the CogAT results. The goal is to provide a comfortable and familiar environment for the child to showcase their natural cognitive abilities"

That's obviously just Google's AI summary of the various linked docs, and I didn't see any links to specific studies or peer-reviewed research, but perhaps they exist within the linked pages or deeper in the search results. But it's also just kind of a "yeah no kidding" obvious point, and to say it's "nowhere in google" is quite disingenuous.

You are googling the wrong thing. The claim was that prep invalidates the score. The only thing remotely close to that claim is this sentence from https://www.heliosschool.org/admissions/assessments#:~:text=After%20the%20test%2C%20praise%20their,engagement%20in%20the%20testing%20session.

“Therefore, exposing your student to test content would invalidate the test results and make them ineligible to retest for at least a year.”

Please note: it talks about exposing the child to test content. Knowing the questions beforehand is clearly cheating.

I don’t know where you’d find the actual questions, but we regular folk don’t have access to actual questions.

Prepping invalidates accuracy of scoring. You know this or you wouldn’t prep your kid to artificially inflate their score in order to get them into a program they don’t qualify for/need. You’re defensive because you cheated.

You’re just sour because your kid didn’t make the cutoff.

[Anonymous]

Regardless of the ethics of it all, I've come up with 2 main points.
1) You're doing your child a disservice by letting them walk in blind, since many of their peers will have had some "prep"
2a) There are varying degrees of "prep", but "most" parents here agree that a quick review of the test format is beneficial.
2b) (controversial/anecdotal) Coincidentally, this level of "prep" is universally the most beneficial way to increase score up front, while more intense preparation will only marginally increase the score.

(as an aside - I have no qualms with prepping at any level. I do see it as a socio-economic advantage, but those also exist in many other areas)

[Anonymous]

My personal "prepping" experience (NNAT and CoGAT) showed that out of 100 practice questions, 90 are pretty obvious; 2-3 are incomprehensible or unreasonable, I would tell my kid, "okay, whatever"; and 5-6 may warrant some discussion.

It's not really the magic bullet as some of you imagined. If you don't believe me, do it.

[Anonymous]

My child went through the AAP program and graduated from TJ. Never prepped for CogAT or the TJ test.

We could tell the kids who had prepped extensively to get into AAP/TJ. These were the kids who had to work extra hard to keep up, had to have tutors after school and “enrichment” in the summer. The kids who were up till 2 am doing homework. The kids who couldn’t participate in any non-academic extracurriculars because they were afraid of falling behind if they did something just for fun.

Kids need lots of different kinds of experiences to become good and mature adults eventually. They do best when they are at the right level in school so they can engage in arts, music, sports, theatre, dance, as well as academics. Pushing them to be in programs above their level actually ends up stunting their growth and development in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child went through the AAP program and graduated from TJ. Never prepped for CogAT or the TJ test.

We could tell the kids who had prepped extensively to get into AAP/TJ. These were the kids who had to work extra hard to keep up, had to have tutors after school and “enrichment” in the summer. The kids who were up till 2 am doing homework. The kids who couldn’t participate in any non-academic extracurriculars because they were afraid of falling behind if they did something just for fun.

Kids need lots of different kinds of experiences to become good and mature adults eventually. They do best when they are at the right level in school so they can engage in arts, music, sports, theatre, dance, as well as academics. Pushing them to be in programs above their level actually ends up stunting their growth and development in the long run.

+1 to all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child went through the AAP program and graduated from TJ. Never prepped for CogAT or the TJ test.

We could tell the kids who had prepped extensively to get into AAP/TJ. These were the kids who had to work extra hard to keep up, had to have tutors after school and “enrichment” in the summer. The kids who were up till 2 am doing homework. The kids who couldn’t participate in any non-academic extracurriculars because they were afraid of falling behind if they did something just for fun.

Kids need lots of different kinds of experiences to become good and mature adults eventually. They do best when they are at the right level in school so they can engage in arts, music, sports, theatre, dance, as well as academics. Pushing them to be in programs above their level actually ends up stunting their growth and development in the long run.

This is how I'm interpreting your statements: In AAP, they're challenged and pushed. In General Education, they would be top of class and coast by while being ignored by the teacher focusing on underperformers.

I know which scenario works better for my child and which one 95% of parents would prefer. This is essentially a glowing recommendation to prep.

I'd also point out that no amount of prepping will get a child who truly can't keep up in the class. We're largely talking about the grey area children who are above grade level and indistinguishable from the higher performers in general ed. If Prepping gives them a slight leg up over an equally qualified (maybe even slightly higher qualified) child - I'd do my parental duty to selfishly help my child succeed and feel zero regrets. Fairfax County created this problem/situation where they pull out any relevant peers making gen ed so undesirable, so I will equally play the game to ensure our own success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child went through the AAP program and graduated from TJ. Never prepped for CogAT or the TJ test.

We could tell the kids who had prepped extensively to get into AAP/TJ. These were the kids who had to work extra hard to keep up, had to have tutors after school and “enrichment” in the summer. The kids who were up till 2 am doing homework. The kids who couldn’t participate in any non-academic extracurriculars because they were afraid of falling behind if they did something just for fun.

Kids need lots of different kinds of experiences to become good and mature adults eventually. They do best when they are at the right level in school so they can engage in arts, music, sports, theatre, dance, as well as academics. Pushing them to be in programs above their level actually ends up stunting their growth and development in the long run.

This is how I'm interpreting your statements: In AAP, they're challenged and pushed. In General Education, they would be top of class and coast by while being ignored by the teacher focusing on underperformers.

I know which scenario works better for my child and which one 95% of parents would prefer. This is essentially a glowing recommendation to prep.

I'd also point out that no amount of prepping will get a child who truly can't keep up in the class. We're largely talking about the grey area children who are above grade level and indistinguishable from the higher performers in general ed. If Prepping gives them a slight leg up over an equally qualified (maybe even slightly higher qualified) child - I'd do my parental duty to selfishly help my child succeed and feel zero regrets. Fairfax County created this problem/situation where they pull out any relevant peers making gen ed so undesirable, so I will equally play the game to ensure our own success.

If that’s how you interpret the above post, then you need to go back and read more carefully.

It is certainly not “success” to put a child in an academic situation where they need to constantly be engaged in academics, and nothing but academics, simply to keep up with the class. Kids who don’t have time for non-academic activities are missing out on a lot of important experiences. A parent who focuses their child on academics at the expense of all else is missing out on the long view of what the true goal of parenting is.

My kids are out of college now and I see the results of various kinds of parenting. The methods you describe in your post above tend to not end well for the kids involved. The kids who are successful now as adults are the ones who were in a level at school where they had time to engage in a variety of activities outside the school day that provided depth of learning in non-academic areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child went through the AAP program and graduated from TJ. Never prepped for CogAT or the TJ test.

We could tell the kids who had prepped extensively to get into AAP/TJ. These were the kids who had to work extra hard to keep up, had to have tutors after school and “enrichment” in the summer. The kids who were up till 2 am doing homework. The kids who couldn’t participate in any non-academic extracurriculars because they were afraid of falling behind if they did something just for fun.

Kids need lots of different kinds of experiences to become good and mature adults eventually. They do best when they are at the right level in school so they can engage in arts, music, sports, theatre, dance, as well as academics. Pushing them to be in programs above their level actually ends up stunting their growth and development in the long run.

This is how I'm interpreting your statements: In AAP, they're challenged and pushed. In General Education, they would be top of class and coast by while being ignored by the teacher focusing on underperformers.

I know which scenario works better for my child and which one 95% of parents would prefer. This is essentially a glowing recommendation to prep.

I'd also point out that no amount of prepping will get a child who truly can't keep up in the class. We're largely talking about the grey area children who are above grade level and indistinguishable from the higher performers in general ed. If Prepping gives them a slight leg up over an equally qualified (maybe even slightly higher qualified) child - I'd do my parental duty to selfishly help my child succeed and feel zero regrets. Fairfax County created this problem/situation where they pull out any relevant peers making gen ed so undesirable, so I will equally play the game to ensure our own success.

+1

[Anonymous]

I looked through the practice tests and then did a little practice with my kid so he understood the concepts. Nothing extensive. My kid can sometimes shut down when he gets anxious so showing him what to expect would just combat that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Out of curiosity, how many points did your kids’ iq/aptitude test increase through prepping?

Your IQ, like your sex, is immutable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a word of caution, if you're preparing a child for the WISC, and they mention to the evaluator that they've seen similar questions before, some (possibly all) providers may consider the results invalid.

In my experience, aside from helping the child become familiar with the format of tests like the CogAT or NNAT, scores generally don’t shift dramatically with prep. You might get more value by focusing on general test-taking strategies, things like staying calm and following directions carefully.

I do t understand the connection between “providers will invalidate the score if they find that you’re familiar with the type of questions” and “you can’t really increase your score by prepping”.

The WISC is a clinical tool used by psychologists, often for diagnostic purposes (e.g., identifying learning differences, ADHD, or cognitive profiles), not just for giftedness. It's administered one-on-one by a trained evaluator.

The CogAT, on the other hand, is typically used in school settings to screen for giftedness and is usually administered in groups.

Both tests can reveal high cognitive ability or "giftedness," but the WISC carries much higher stakes in a diagnostic or clinical context.

Bottom Line
WISC: Used by psychologists for diagnosis and deeper assessment; prepping is discouraged and can invalidate results.

CogAT/NNAT: Used for school-based gifted placement; light familiarization is fine, and test strategies can be helpful.

Prepping for the WISC doesn’t guarantee higher scores, and it introduces the risk of invalidation if the evaluator suspects or learns of it.

I think it’s really terrible and certainly unethical for parents to be prepping small children for any elementary school test.

Terrible!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sister paid for her son to a prep class but stopped it because they just go over questions from commercially available practice books. She and her husband prepped my nephew for a few month and he got 160 NNAT and 140+ cogat.

Under their advice, I prepped my son (one grade behind his cousin) with practice book. The only prep was scoring his practice and going over the wrong answers with him. The questions are straight forward, the only thing I "taught" him was process of elimination. My son got the similar result as his cousin.

I think it's mainly up to the kids to perform.

Why did you and your sister think your kids needed prepping to get a high score?

Because we are responsible parents.

Who are just as stupid as you assume your kids are.

[Anonymous]

Here we go again.

Do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT person who attended cram after-school programs and studied day and night?

Or do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT brilliant individual who grasped concepts easily and did not need to cram and study and struggle to grasp what they needed to learn?

I know who I would want. I have no respect for these types of questions.