Prepping for aptitude/iq tests

[Anonymous]

I think what everyone is ignoring here is that AAP is NOT that hard. You don't need to be brilliant, and you don't need to have a 99 percentile IQ. You just have to be a pretty smart kid, a good listener, and have a good attitude. FCPS tries to use high COGAT and WISC scores to indicate whether a child should be in AAP, but really many more could easily handle the work. So by "prepping" your child for the COGAT and WISC, a parent is just trying to do whatever they can to help their child get into a program in which they would do FINE. Don't worry, if a child has a *gasp* 95 percentile COGAT score, they will not drag down the other brilliant children who apparently may be destined to be brain surgeons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here we go again.

Do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT person who attended cram after-school programs and studied day and night?

Or do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT brilliant individual who grasped concepts easily and did not need to cram and study and struggle to grasp what they needed to learn?

I know who I would want. I have no respect for these types of questions.

You can go ahead and take the brain surgeon who didn’t study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here we go again.

Do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT person who attended cram after-school programs and studied day and night?

Or do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT brilliant individual who grasped concepts easily and did not need to cram and study and struggle to grasp what they needed to learn?

I know who I would want. I have no respect for these types of questions.

You can go ahead and take the brain surgeon who didn’t study.

Either you know very well that that is not what the above post is saying… or you have trouble understanding what you read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here we go again.

Do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT person who attended cram after-school programs and studied day and night?

Or do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT brilliant individual who grasped concepts easily and did not need to cram and study and struggle to grasp what they needed to learn?

I know who I would want. I have no respect for these types of questions.

You can go ahead and take the brain surgeon who didn’t study.

Either you know very well that that is not what the above post is saying… or you have trouble understanding what you read.

It’s saying what it’s saying: it’s comparing a person who studies with a person who is smart and didn’t need to study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here we go again.

Do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT person who attended cram after-school programs and studied day and night?

Or do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT brilliant individual who grasped concepts easily and did not need to cram and study and struggle to grasp what they needed to learn?

I know who I would want. I have no respect for these types of questions.

This is a laughable extrapolation. I prepped my subsequent children to get into AAP. This helps in Kindergarten and Middle School only. The PRIMARY benefit is 1) better teachers, and 2) different peer group. You'll find that all of the little problems that happen in 3rd-8th grade just don't occur as frequently in these classes. It makes home life easier, not having to supplement education on my own to meet my higher standards. Yes - there are examples/situations where this isn't the case, but by and large it is less stressful.

It is NOT a reflection of belief that my child is a genius. I and almost everyone here recognize that AAP is not a gifted program (though FCPS uses it to satisfy the state requirement and some parents want it to be).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think what everyone is ignoring here is that AAP is NOT that hard. You don't need to be brilliant, and you don't need to have a 99 percentile IQ. You just have to be a pretty smart kid, a good listener, and have a good attitude. FCPS tries to use high COGAT and WISC scores to indicate whether a child should be in AAP, but really many more could easily handle the work. So by "prepping" your child for the COGAT and WISC, a parent is just trying to do whatever they can to help their child get into a program in which they would do FINE. Don't worry, if a child has a *gasp* 95 percentile COGAT score, they will not drag down the other brilliant children who apparently may be destined to be brain surgeons.

+1

[Anonymous]

I don't care if people prep at all, but it is clear that those parents do not actually think their kids are smart enough to get in without prepping. I didn't prep either kid--not because I thought it was morally wrong or anything, but I knew my kids and I would have been shocked if they did not do well on their own. And they both got in the 140s and got into AAP without my doing anything. They also got perfect GBRS scores so their teachers also knew they were smart enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child went through the AAP program and graduated from TJ. Never prepped for CogAT or the TJ test.

We could tell the kids who had prepped extensively to get into AAP/TJ. These were the kids who had to work extra hard to keep up, had to have tutors after school and “enrichment” in the summer. The kids who were up till 2 am doing homework. The kids who couldn’t participate in any non-academic extracurriculars because they were afraid of falling behind if they did something just for fun.

Kids need lots of different kinds of experiences to become good and mature adults eventually. They do best when they are at the right level in school so they can engage in arts, music, sports, theatre, dance, as well as academics. Pushing them to be in programs above their level actually ends up stunting their growth and development in the long run.

This is how I'm interpreting your statements: In AAP, they're challenged and pushed. In General Education, they would be top of class and coast by while being ignored by the teacher focusing on underperformers.

I know which scenario works better for my child and which one 95% of parents would prefer. This is essentially a glowing recommendation to prep.

I'd also point out that no amount of prepping will get a child who truly can't keep up in the class. We're largely talking about the grey area children who are above grade level and indistinguishable from the higher performers in general ed. If Prepping gives them a slight leg up over an equally qualified (maybe even slightly higher qualified) child - I'd do my parental duty to selfishly help my child succeed and feel zero regrets. Fairfax County created this problem/situation where they pull out any relevant peers making gen ed so undesirable, so I will equally play the game to ensure our own success.

If that’s how you interpret the above post, then you need to go back and read more carefully.

It is certainly not “success” to put a child in an academic situation where they need to constantly be engaged in academics, and nothing but academics, simply to keep up with the class. Kids who don’t have time for non-academic activities are missing out on a lot of important experiences. A parent who focuses their child on academics at the expense of all else is missing out on the long view of what the true goal of parenting is.

My kids are out of college now and I see the results of various kinds of parenting. The methods you describe in your post above tend to not end well for the kids involved. The kids who are successful now as adults are the ones who were in a level at school where they had time to engage in a variety of activities outside the school day that provided depth of learning in non-academic areas.

I did read it again and stand by my claim that most will see it as encouragement to prep. There are so few (I'd hazard to say zero) children who struggle in AAP to that extent. Maybe your child's experiences in TJ's and college are more recent in your mind and you're projecting to the lower levels, or maybe you remember the unicorn child who is not the norm. Also, all children are different. Mine thrived on being challenged and would lapse into tv/video games if not. Balancing sports was not an issue.

[Anonymous]

People post on this board about using tutors for their kids in AAP, so there are kids who are struggling and need help in AAP.

I don’t care that much about prepping for the CoGAT, FCPS knows parents do that and the areas that prep is most prevalent in have localized norms that are far higher then other schools.I do care if people prep for the WiSC because the WiSC is a clinical diagnostic that is used to identify learning issues and prepping for that can actively hurt a child by not finding a learning issue.

Do what you want with the mass produce IQ proxies, that fixes itself, but don’t mess with the test that could identify if your kid has gaps that could be relevant to their ability to learn.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure how much my child's score increased over their theoretical baseline because we began prepping very early and often. These tests are notoriously game-able and prep-able. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If you're on the fence about prepping, just do it. There will be *some* increase

[Anonymous]

The overwhelming majority of kids in the 115-130 IQ range would have a much better experience in AAP than they would have in gen ed. AAP is not especially challenging, generally has a better peer group, and lets kids feel like they're smart. The same kid in gen ed would be ignored by the teacher, bored, deal with a lot of kids with behavior issues, and would feel dumb because they aren't in AAP.

Whether it's right or wrong to prep for the CogAT is immaterial. Parents are going to do whatever they can to help their kids have a better social and academic experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The overwhelming majority of kids in the 115-130 IQ range would have a much better experience in AAP than they would have in gen ed. AAP is not especially challenging, generally has a better peer group, and lets kids feel like they're smart. The same kid in gen ed would be ignored by the teacher, bored, deal with a lot of kids with behavior issues, and would feel dumb because they aren't in AAP.

Whether it's right or wrong to prep for the CogAT is immaterial. Parents are going to do whatever they can to help their kids have a better social and academic experience.

Agree!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The overwhelming majority of kids in the 115-130 IQ range would have a much better experience in AAP than they would have in gen ed. AAP is not especially challenging, generally has a better peer group, and lets kids feel like they're smart. The same kid in gen ed would be ignored by the teacher, bored, deal with a lot of kids with behavior issues, and would feel dumb because they aren't in AAP.

Whether it's right or wrong to prep for the CogAT is immaterial. Parents are going to do whatever they can to help their kids have a better social and academic experience.

This is entirely school dependent. I can tell you with certainty that most kids in the 115 range would not be thriving in AAP among the crazy competitive cohort in TJ feeder pyramids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here we go again.

Do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT person who attended cram after-school programs and studied day and night?

Or do you want your brain surgeon to be THAT brilliant individual who grasped concepts easily and did not need to cram and study and struggle to grasp what they needed to learn?

I know who I would want. I have no respect for these types of questions.

You can go ahead and take the brain surgeon who didn’t study.

Either you know very well that that is not what the above post is saying… or you have trouble understanding what you read.

It’s saying what it’s saying: it’s comparing a person who studies with a person who is smart and didn’t need to study.

No, he’s comparing a person who has to study to an extreme extent just for a bare minimum of understanding to a person who can study and grasp concepts easily so that they have time to do other things in addition to studying. The second person, who understands easily, has a better grasp of the information than the first person who needs to study for hours and hours, and even then, has a baseline level of understanding- enough to pass a test, but not as deeply and fully as the person who is more intelligent to begin with.

I’m sorry if you don’t understand the difference.

[Anonymous]

This isn’t a good question. Many parents who prep their kids never have them take an unpeeled version.