Miyares is right about discrimination

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

This is kind of the issue right. I mean it's kind of hard to cry discrimination when you are grossly overrepresented in the environment you claim has and is discriminating against you.

At some point the golden goose is going to get cooked, the baby will get thrown out with the bathwater, and TJ will be no more or will have a full on race blind 100% lottery admissions policy. Anyone with a GPA above a certain point will be offered the chance to apply, and all admissions will be pulled out of a hat. At that point levels will more adequately reflect the demographic makeup of the county. Win/win.

The forces aligned against merit have existed for generations. You seem to be saying that if we don't feed the beat at least a little bit by letting more undeterred URM in, we could lose the whole thing.

I would say that we should have an education system that prepares URM to get in under their own steam without favor or charity.

Well, yes.

When 20% of the population is taking 70% of the seats, there is going to be a backlash especially when the rules are set by democratically elected board members.
We live in a democracy and that means that results have to be acceptable to the majority regardless of who deserves what.
Having a selective school be 70% asian in an area where the population is like 20% asian just isn't acceptable.
And crying about merit isn't going to change that.

You seem to be having a problem accepting what FCPS is confirming with its own actions. There is not as much interest in advanced STEM education among various ethnic groups as the asian american students. For 550 seats, from entire 5 participating counties there are less than a 1000 non-asian american applicants. So when 1600+ asian american applicants are stepping up to study and learn STEM subjects at TJ's in-depth rigor, FCPS is glad to respond by extending offers to about 340 of them. Different ethnic student group have different interests, and FCPS accommodates their interests accordingly.

https://www.fcps.edu/news/offers-extended-tho...echnology-class-2029

+1 Math and science, especially at TJ, is tough. And a there are a lot of parents and kids out there, of all stripes, that don't have it in them to prepare for that kind of education. They'd rather take their kids out of school to travel, or have them spend summers at the pool, or just relax and be kids. I don't necessarily fault them for that, but you can't "push in" kids who aren't qualified and don't have the drive and preparation for the rigor that they will face at TJ. Can't have it both ways. I'm thinking mainly of my white friends and neighbors, but it applies to URMs as well.

You are trying hard to stir up the forum suggesting Asian Americans should point fingers at Whites for the problems at TJ. It's not working

There didn't used to be a "problem" at TJ. Kids who qualified chose to work their butts off, had a long school day, and worked really hard at academics. My kids didn't want that, spent time with sports, PT jobs, other activities, and a lot of hanging out with friends and family. I didn't see them passionate enough about STEM to put the effort in and excel at TJ, so I was okay with it. Instead they thrived in their base school (still well ranked) and went to pretty decent universities and had the collegiate experience. I think they were a little surprised upon graduation to find the wide gulf between their liberal arts salaries and those of their friends who had more technical majors, but each launched and is living a happy, fulfilling life.

[Anonymous]

Let kids follow what they're genuinely interested in. If students loves STEM and demonstrate readiness, let them dive into it. Same goes for sports—leave it to the kids who are passionate and want to push themselves to the next level. And if a child is drawn to the arts, support them in exploring that path. There’s really no need to track and analyze student’s ethnicity in these interest areas.

Trying to force kids into certain interest areas just to check a box for diversity doesn’t help anyone. Support interests, dont limit or admit based on politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

But legit question. What would you say is keeping black families from being statistically represented at TJ under the old admissions through demonstrated achievement and high test scores model?
Racism?
Discrimination?
Is there something keeping black, Hispanic, and white students in fcps from achieving the same high test results and merit standards as the Asian students? And what would that be?
Is it possible that the family’s focus and orientation in the home toward supporting and expecting high academic success plays a more significant role in Asian American households?
And if so, shouldn’t we be trying to study that and then encourage non-Asian families to emulate those values and practices to yield similar results rather than re-orient the entire admissions system to artificially capture different demographics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

But legit question. What would you say is keeping black families from being statistically represented at TJ under the old admissions through demonstrated achievement and high test scores model?
Racism?
Discrimination?
Is there something keeping black, Hispanic, and white students in fcps from achieving the same high test results and merit standards as the Asian students? And what would that be?
Is it possible that the family’s focus and orientation in the home toward supporting and expecting high academic success plays a more significant role in Asian American households?
And if so, shouldn’t we be trying to study that and then encourage non-Asian families to emulate those values and practices to yield similar results rather than re-orient the entire admissions system to artificially capture different demographics?

I think most Americans view the hyper fixation that some Asian families place on academics as not a positive approach that needs modeling and further encouragement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry that your kid didn’t get accepted into TJ.

Thanks for being empathetic. I guess you can empathize because you know it feels like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Miyares should look into how many kids from schools in the Diocese of Arlington have been admitted to TJ. I know that no students from the DofA school that my kids attend has ever gotten into TJ. Each year two or three apply and none have ever been accepted.

To make matters worse, the applications for TJ need to be turned in before the DofA has completed testing, making it almost impossible to meet application requirements/deadlines.

I’m not whining, just pointing out that TJ admissions leave a lot to be desired from many different groups.

My student went to TJ from private school (secular) and coincidentally are catholic. What testing does DoA have to do for TJ admissions? Thought county does their own testing, even for private school kids. It was a on a Saturday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

But legit question. What would you say is keeping black families from being statistically represented at TJ under the old admissions through demonstrated achievement and high test scores model?
Racism?
Discrimination?
Is there something keeping black, Hispanic, and white students in fcps from achieving the same high test results and merit standards as the Asian students? And what would that be?
Is it possible that the family’s focus and orientation in the home toward supporting and expecting high academic success plays a more significant role in Asian American households?
And if so, shouldn’t we be trying to study that and then encourage non-Asian families to emulate those values and practices to yield similar results rather than re-orient the entire admissions system to artificially capture different demographics?

I think most Americans view the hyper fixation that some Asian families place on academics as not a positive approach that needs modeling and further encouragement

Of course they are free to feel that way and to live their own lives, but the same applies to the Asians.

If the Asians work hard and succeed, that is meritocracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

But legit question. What would you say is keeping black families from being statistically represented at TJ under the old admissions through demonstrated achievement and high test scores model?
Racism?
Discrimination?
Is there something keeping black, Hispanic, and white students in fcps from achieving the same high test results and merit standards as the Asian students? And what would that be?
Is it possible that the family’s focus and orientation in the home toward supporting and expecting high academic success plays a more significant role in Asian American households?
And if so, shouldn’t we be trying to study that and then encourage non-Asian families to emulate those values and practices to yield similar results rather than re-orient the entire admissions system to artificially capture different demographics?

The biggest factor for academic achievement, at least with respect to TJ admissions, is family wealth.

That’s why before the admissions change only <1% of kids admitted came from low-income families. Even after the change, those kids are still at a huge disadvantage.

By allocating a small number of seats to all MSs, bright kids from high-FRE middle schools now have a shot of being admitted. Previously, it was nearly impossible for them to compete against kids from the affluent feeder schools that offered tons of STEM programming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

But legit question. What would you say is keeping black families from being statistically represented at TJ under the old admissions through demonstrated achievement and high test scores model?
Racism?
Discrimination?
Is there something keeping black, Hispanic, and white students in fcps from achieving the same high test results and merit standards as the Asian students? And what would that be?
Is it possible that the family’s focus and orientation in the home toward supporting and expecting high academic success plays a more significant role in Asian American households?
And if so, shouldn’t we be trying to study that and then encourage non-Asian families to emulate those values and practices to yield similar results rather than re-orient the entire admissions system to artificially capture different demographics?

You might start by looking at prep factories that appear to serve single racial demographics and cater exclusively to those who can afford thousands of dollars of their disposable income.

Additionally, we shouldn’t be incentivizing specialization at the age of 10-11 years old. Some kids are there naturally and that’s fine, but the old admissions process made parents feel as though they had to engage in objectively unhealthy behaviors just to keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

But legit question. What would you say is keeping black families from being statistically represented at TJ under the old admissions through demonstrated achievement and high test scores model?
Racism?
Discrimination?
Is there something keeping black, Hispanic, and white students in fcps from achieving the same high test results and merit standards as the Asian students? And what would that be?
Is it possible that the family’s focus and orientation in the home toward supporting and expecting high academic success plays a more significant role in Asian American households?
And if so, shouldn’t we be trying to study that and then encourage non-Asian families to emulate those values and practices to yield similar results rather than re-orient the entire admissions system to artificially capture different demographics?

I think most Americans view the hyper fixation that some Asian families place on academics as not a positive approach that needs modeling and further encouragement

Of course they are free to feel that way and to live their own lives, but the same applies to the Asians.

If the Asians work hard and succeed, that is meritocracy.

There are many paths to fulfillment in life. In our family, only my DH was STEM-oriented. Fortunately, for the rest of us because his career was the more lucrative and allowed our kids to pursue their dreams. It's fine for "most Americans" to look at Asians as "hyper fixated" on academics, but in that case, don't expect your kids to have an equal shot at TJ, MIT, CalTech, etc. Those institutions reward kids who have been working hard since childhood on STEM disciplines. My only gripe with that is those well off families who are not American citizens and do not plan to stay in the US permanently. They do know which of our educational institutions are producing top STEM graduates before they arrive. IMO, the real scandal is the foreign families whose kids qualify for our elite institutions (sometimes for free or subsidized rates), but then bring their knowledge back to their home countries who benefit at the US's expense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BWE23Y004896/$file/TJ%20White%20Paper%2011.17.2020.pdf

Read through this and you will see that FCPS has been trying for years to change the demographics of TJ to have a higher percentage of certain types of minority (black/hispanic)….which can only happen by lowering the percentage of other minorities (Asians).

That's so weird. If this were true, which I seriously doubt, they failed miserably. You do realize the process is race blind and Asian enrollment is at a historic high. The most recent changes benefited Asians the most too.

On the one hand we have evidence, on the other hand we have you saying that Asians benefit from this change... Either you're stupid or you think we are

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

But legit question. What would you say is keeping black families from being statistically represented at TJ under the old admissions through demonstrated achievement and high test scores model?
Racism?
Discrimination?
Is there something keeping black, Hispanic, and white students in fcps from achieving the same high test results and merit standards as the Asian students? And what would that be?
Is it possible that the family’s focus and orientation in the home toward supporting and expecting high academic success plays a more significant role in Asian American households?
And if so, shouldn’t we be trying to study that and then encourage non-Asian families to emulate those values and practices to yield similar results rather than re-orient the entire admissions system to artificially capture different demographics?

I think most Americans view the hyper fixation that some Asian families place on academics as not a positive approach that needs modeling and further encouragement

I think America is changing it's mind about that. They see what the future will look like and there isn't a lot of room for poorly educated Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

But legit question. What would you say is keeping black families from being statistically represented at TJ under the old admissions through demonstrated achievement and high test scores model?
Racism?
Discrimination?
Is there something keeping black, Hispanic, and white students in fcps from achieving the same high test results and merit standards as the Asian students? And what would that be?
Is it possible that the family’s focus and orientation in the home toward supporting and expecting high academic success plays a more significant role in Asian American households?
And if so, shouldn’t we be trying to study that and then encourage non-Asian families to emulate those values and practices to yield similar results rather than re-orient the entire admissions system to artificially capture different demographics?

The biggest factor for academic achievement, at least with respect to TJ admissions, is family wealth.

That’s why before the admissions change only <1% of kids admitted came from low-income families. Even after the change, those kids are still at a huge disadvantage.

By allocating a small number of seats to all MSs, bright kids from high-FRE middle schools now have a shot of being admitted. Previously, it was nearly impossible for them to compete against kids from the affluent feeder schools that offered tons of STEM programming.

If wealth determined academic achievement then we wouldn't see the very wide disparity between whites and Asians.

There is an effort gap not a wealth gap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

But legit question. What would you say is keeping black families from being statistically represented at TJ under the old admissions through demonstrated achievement and high test scores model?
Racism?
Discrimination?
Is there something keeping black, Hispanic, and white students in fcps from achieving the same high test results and merit standards as the Asian students? And what would that be?
Is it possible that the family’s focus and orientation in the home toward supporting and expecting high academic success plays a more significant role in Asian American households?
And if so, shouldn’t we be trying to study that and then encourage non-Asian families to emulate those values and practices to yield similar results rather than re-orient the entire admissions system to artificially capture different demographics?

You might start by looking at prep factories that appear to serve single racial demographics and cater exclusively to those who can afford thousands of dollars of their disposable income.

Additionally, we shouldn’t be incentivizing specialization at the age of 10-11 years old. Some kids are there naturally and that’s fine, but the old admissions process made parents feel as though they had to engage in objectively unhealthy behaviors just to keep up.

Curie costs ~$2000/year.
This is does not require wealth. Families of modest means can afford it. But your kid has to be willing to put in the work. They don't keep you on their fast track if your kids are not keeping up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Meanwhile Black families would just like to be statistically represented at TJ while AA families are complaining about making up less than 70% of the school population.

But legit question. What would you say is keeping black families from being statistically represented at TJ under the old admissions through demonstrated achievement and high test scores model?
Racism?
Discrimination?
Is there something keeping black, Hispanic, and white students in fcps from achieving the same high test results and merit standards as the Asian students? And what would that be?
Is it possible that the family’s focus and orientation in the home toward supporting and expecting high academic success plays a more significant role in Asian American households?
And if so, shouldn’t we be trying to study that and then encourage non-Asian families to emulate those values and practices to yield similar results rather than re-orient the entire admissions system to artificially capture different demographics?

I think most Americans view the hyper fixation that some Asian families place on academics as not a positive approach that needs modeling and further encouragement

Of course they are free to feel that way and to live their own lives, but the same applies to the Asians.

If the Asians work hard and succeed, that is meritocracy.

There are many paths to fulfillment in life. In our family, only my DH was STEM-oriented. Fortunately, for the rest of us because his career was the more lucrative and allowed our kids to pursue their dreams. It's fine for "most Americans" to look at Asians as "hyper fixated" on academics, but in that case, don't expect your kids to have an equal shot at TJ, MIT, CalTech, etc. Those institutions reward kids who have been working hard since childhood on STEM disciplines. My only gripe with that is those well off families who are not American citizens and do not plan to stay in the US permanently. They do know which of our educational institutions are producing top STEM graduates before they arrive. IMO, the real scandal is the foreign families whose kids qualify for our elite institutions (sometimes for free or subsidized rates), but then bring their knowledge back to their home countries who benefit at the US's expense.

I don't know about international college students but the families that come here before high school almost never go back. Their kids are no longer Chinese by the time they graduate college, they are culturally American, Chinese American but American all the same.