Co-owning the second home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The uncle is taking advantage of your DH. Calmly, your DH should talk to him and ask why this purchase wasn’t mentioned 2 months ago? Yes, this will probably affect your relationship with the uncle. Too bad, so sad.

Well, I think it depends on whether OP wants to continue a relationship or not. If he values that, he should not argue, mention it to uncle and then get some legal language together to make that clear in the future and just blame his lawyer/financial planner, even if he doesn’t have one.

To me, it’s not about letting people walk all over him or not. It’s about whether he wants to have a relationship with his uncle and cousins. In that case, he will have to let some things slide.

So it’s a relationship based on doing whatever the uncle and his family want rather than being adults and discussing non-emergency purchases in advance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a setup like this with my brother and it works well because I am he handles everything and I am happy just writing checks without worrying about the hassles. He only consults on really big ticket items like a new roof.

It works when both parties are consultative, or one is in the lead and the other is happy to go along. It doesn’t work when one is in the lead and the other is quibbling about furniture costs etc.

Sell the house. This is not going to work.

I would add it works when both have similar budgeting values. I could do this with my SIL as we have really similar be frugal but buy high quality at the lowest possible price mentality. I have another relative whom I could never do this with because she’d be redecorating on my dime constantly.

It is not quibbling to get a bill for a custom dining room redeco project that you didn’t agree to fund. I’d also advise DH to start looking back over the past five to seven years to see how many checks FIL was cutting to his uncle. Chances are good FIL was getting fleeced.

He was getting fleeced. When DH took over and asked for an accounting of the recent expenses in order to get a sense of the burn rate, he discovered that the family writes 4-figure checks to themselves with no accounting for the money while FiL/MiL/us have paid out of our pockets. New vac needed - we just go buy. Out of paper towels, they expense it. He learned the latter when asking his uncle, “why did X get a $1200 check?”

For example, DH was told a new dock was needed and it would cost X. When DH arrived, he discovered that the “new dock” was a wraparound for their boat and nothing else was done to the existing dock. Does DH really have to pay for an upgrade that we are barred from using?

[Anonymous]

OP, does your DH actually a half owner or is it still FIL’s name with the uncle? If your DH is not on the deed, this is going to get complicated.

[Anonymous]

Co owning rarely, if ever, works out.

My wife's parents had a beach house in South Nags Head. Beautiful old school cottage ocean front.

They also had a mansion in Glover Park.

When they passed and the estate was being settled between her and her sister, the sister wanted the beach house "gone". She lamented the hassle and expense it was and she lived in Missouri.

We lived in Alexandria, had three small kids, and the ability to work remotely during the summer so we wanted it. In the end, we got that and a small fraction of the sale of the main house.

On paper, all assets were split down the middle.

But guess who still wanted to use the beach house for a couple weeks every year? Yep, the sister.

The breaking point with me was the sister having a colleague of hers reach out about using for a week one summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a setup like this with my brother and it works well because I am he handles everything and I am happy just writing checks without worrying about the hassles. He only consults on really big ticket items like a new roof.

It works when both parties are consultative, or one is in the lead and the other is happy to go along. It doesn’t work when one is in the lead and the other is quibbling about furniture costs etc.

Sell the house. This is not going to work.

I would add it works when both have similar budgeting values. I could do this with my SIL as we have really similar be frugal but buy high quality at the lowest possible price mentality. I have another relative whom I could never do this with because she’d be redecorating on my dime constantly.

It is not quibbling to get a bill for a custom dining room redeco project that you didn’t agree to fund. I’d also advise DH to start looking back over the past five to seven years to see how many checks FIL was cutting to his uncle. Chances are good FIL was getting fleeced.

He was getting fleeced. When DH took over and asked for an accounting of the recent expenses in order to get a sense of the burn rate, he discovered that the family writes 4-figure checks to themselves with no accounting for the money while FiL/MiL/us have paid out of our pockets. New vac needed - we just go buy. Out of paper towels, they expense it. He learned the latter when asking his uncle, “why did X get a $1200 check?”

For example, DH was told a new dock was needed and it would cost X. When DH arrived, he discovered that the “new dock” was a wraparound for their boat and nothing else was done to the existing dock. Does DH really have to pay for an upgrade that we are barred from using?

Checks from where? Is there a group account?

This doesn’t sound salvageable. Group ownership can work but only if people are happy with how it’s working or at least happy enough. I doubt you’ll resolve this kind of conflict or change the way things are done. Just notify them that you want to sell. Hopefully they’ll just buy you out.

[Anonymous]

The uncle sounds like one of those people who likes to say "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission" as he goes off doing whatever he wants without a thought to other people.

It will only get worse.

I understand that your kids like going there, but I can't imagine that the enjoyment they get out of this is worth what you have to spend to keep it going, at least as long as you have no control over what's spent.

Get. Out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, does your DH actually a half owner or is it still FIL’s name with the uncle? If your DH is not on the deed, this is going to get complicated.

Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Co owning rarely, if ever, works out.

My wife's parents had a beach house in South Nags Head. Beautiful old school cottage ocean front.

They also had a mansion in Glover Park.

When they passed and the estate was being settled between her and her sister, the sister wanted the beach house "gone". She lamented the hassle and expense it was and she lived in Missouri.

We lived in Alexandria, had three small kids, and the ability to work remotely during the summer so we wanted it. In the end, we got that and a small fraction of the sale of the main house.

On paper, all assets were split down the middle.

But guess who still wanted to use the beach house for a couple weeks every year? Yep, the sister.

The breaking point with me was the sister having a colleague of hers reach out about using for a week one summer.

Argh on SiL. We may go through this too. DH’s sibling wants the summer house sold immediately or the will rewritten in order that she inherits all cash and DH gets all real estate, regardless if the real estate market is underwater, etc. “I don’t want to be bothered with the summer house or any real estate. I’m not interested in it. X likes that stuff so he can handle it.” In the next breath she will indicate that her adult DCs should be able to have unfettered access to the place according to what works best for their schedules.

We have friends who inherited a family house on Nantucket. One sibling bought out the other sibling and included in the contract that if the sibling asked to use, then there would be a charge for housekeeping/maintenance. Any invitations from them to the sibling to visit would not include a charge. I was a little taken aback but less so know with our own experience and what I am reading here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Co owning rarely, if ever, works out.

My wife's parents had a beach house in South Nags Head. Beautiful old school cottage ocean front.

They also had a mansion in Glover Park.

When they passed and the estate was being settled between her and her sister, the sister wanted the beach house "gone". She lamented the hassle and expense it was and she lived in Missouri.

We lived in Alexandria, had three small kids, and the ability to work remotely during the summer so we wanted it. In the end, we got that and a small fraction of the sale of the main house.

On paper, all assets were split down the middle.

But guess who still wanted to use the beach house for a couple weeks every year? Yep, the sister.

The breaking point with me was the sister having a colleague of hers reach out about using for a week one summer.

Argh on SiL. We may go through this too. DH’s sibling wants the summer house sold immediately or the will rewritten in order that she inherits all cash and DH gets all real estate, regardless if the real estate market is underwater, etc. “I don’t want to be bothered with the summer house or any real estate. I’m not interested in it. X likes that stuff so he can handle it.” In the next breath she will indicate that her adult DCs should be able to have unfettered access to the place according to what works best for their schedules.

We have friends who inherited a family house on Nantucket. One sibling bought out the other sibling and included in the contract that if the sibling asked to use, then there would be a charge for housekeeping/maintenance. Any invitations from them to the sibling to visit would not include a charge. I was a little taken aback but less so know with our own experience and what I am reading here.

It has to be spelled out, written down, and signed.

"We, the undersigned, forfeit any and all claims to 123 Beach Drive. We acknowledge total and complete transfer to (insert sibling name) and recognize that for all intents and purposes the home was sold to strangers."

[Anonymous]

Your husband is not an owner. He will be eventually, but he is not now. Not legally. He should instruct his (demented) Father to approve some things, and not others. DH signs on his behalf.

In practical terms this will be a big mess. Even people who go into co-ownership getting along and seeing eye-to-eye on things, end up disagreeing on very important as well as trivial decisions. Someone HAS to buy the other person out. It will be the only way out of this mess. Be it now, as your Father as the other co-owner, or a later as your Father's Estate when he passes, or even later eventually your DH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The uncle is taking advantage of your DH. Calmly, your DH should talk to him and ask why this purchase wasn’t mentioned 2 months ago? Yes, this will probably affect your relationship with the uncle. Too bad, so sad.

Well, I think it depends on whether OP wants to continue a relationship or not. If he values that, he should not argue, mention it to uncle and then get some legal language together to make that clear in the future and just blame his lawyer/financial planner, even if he doesn’t have one.

To me, it’s not about letting people walk all over him or not. It’s about whether he wants to have a relationship with his uncle and cousins. In that case, he will have to let some things slide.

So it’s a relationship based on doing whatever the uncle and his family want rather than being adults and discussing non-emergency purchases in advance?

NP here. This also seems like a relationship where OP and her DH don't do any of the work and are fine allowing the uncle and his family to do all of the necessary homeownership maintenance and admin while they still get to enjoy owning the house. Yet they want the power of veto for furniture that they decide is too expensive, yet OP admits they can afford it.

I have no idea whether the uncle's family is taking advantage of DH by requesting reimbursement for excessively expensive furniture. But DH is taking advantage of not doing anything homeownership wise 100% of the time while his adult kids love to go to this beach house every year.

These kind of power dynamics really irk me, and I have one involving the care of one of my parents' homes. My siblings are perfectly fine sitting back and not lifting a finger to help with the day to day grind, but then want to sweep in and say "yeah no, I don't like that" once in a while to exert power. Maintaining a home is a PITA, especially if you don't live there and it is a second home. Thinking it is ok for the uncle to bear this responsibility 100% of the time is not ok. It's not. So either get more involved and actually "co-own" the home or let them buy you out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The uncle is taking advantage of your DH. Calmly, your DH should talk to him and ask why this purchase wasn’t mentioned 2 months ago? Yes, this will probably affect your relationship with the uncle. Too bad, so sad.

Well, I think it depends on whether OP wants to continue a relationship or not. If he values that, he should not argue, mention it to uncle and then get some legal language together to make that clear in the future and just blame his lawyer/financial planner, even if he doesn’t have one.

To me, it’s not about letting people walk all over him or not. It’s about whether he wants to have a relationship with his uncle and cousins. In that case, he will have to let some things slide.

So it’s a relationship based on doing whatever the uncle and his family want rather than being adults and discussing non-emergency purchases in advance?

NP here. This also seems like a relationship where OP and her DH don't do any of the work and are fine allowing the uncle and his family to do all of the necessary homeownership maintenance and admin while they still get to enjoy owning the house. Yet they want the power of veto for furniture that they decide is too expensive, yet OP admits they can afford it.

I have no idea whether the uncle's family is taking advantage of DH by requesting reimbursement for excessively expensive furniture. But DH is taking advantage of not doing anything homeownership wise 100% of the time while his adult kids love to go to this beach house every year.

These kind of power dynamics really irk me, and I have one involving the care of one of my parents' homes. My siblings are perfectly fine sitting back and not lifting a finger to help with the day to day grind, but then want to sweep in and say "yeah no, I don't like that" once in a while to exert power. Maintaining a home is a PITA, especially if you don't live there and it is a second home. Thinking it is ok for the uncle to bear this responsibility 100% of the time is not ok. It's not. So either get more involved and actually "co-own" the home or let them buy you out.

You can’t chide OP and her husband, they aren’t the co owners. A man with dementia is. OP hasn’t been able to bear responsibility. I’m not sure why his son and uncle haven’t already transferred his share of the home since he isn’t capable of making the executive decisions needed for this.

[Anonymous]

Watching this closely, OP because my FIL bought a tiny condo with his now-deceased brother years ago. Now only my FIL can drive (he’s 81), my MIL has dementia and so the place sits vacant.

FIL hesitant to sell. Claims he wants my DH to inherit but neither DH nor lone sibling wants the hassle.

Cautionary tale to never go into any sort of real estate transaction or legally binding contract with a relative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The uncle is taking advantage of your DH. Calmly, your DH should talk to him and ask why this purchase wasn’t mentioned 2 months ago? Yes, this will probably affect your relationship with the uncle. Too bad, so sad.

Well, I think it depends on whether OP wants to continue a relationship or not. If he values that, he should not argue, mention it to uncle and then get some legal language together to make that clear in the future and just blame his lawyer/financial planner, even if he doesn’t have one.

To me, it’s not about letting people walk all over him or not. It’s about whether he wants to have a relationship with his uncle and cousins. In that case, he will have to let some things slide.

So it’s a relationship based on doing whatever the uncle and his family want rather than being adults and discussing non-emergency purchases in advance?

NP here. This also seems like a relationship where OP and her DH don't do any of the work and are fine allowing the uncle and his family to do all of the necessary homeownership maintenance and admin while they still get to enjoy owning the house. Yet they want the power of veto for furniture that they decide is too expensive, yet OP admits they can afford it.

I have no idea whether the uncle's family is taking advantage of DH by requesting reimbursement for excessively expensive furniture. But DH is taking advantage of not doing anything homeownership wise 100% of the time while his adult kids love to go to this beach house every year.

These kind of power dynamics really irk me, and I have one involving the care of one of my parents' homes. My siblings are perfectly fine sitting back and not lifting a finger to help with the day to day grind, but then want to sweep in and say "yeah no, I don't like that" once in a while to exert power. Maintaining a home is a PITA, especially if you don't live there and it is a second home. Thinking it is ok for the uncle to bear this responsibility 100% of the time is not ok. It's not. So either get more involved and actually "co-own" the home or let them buy you out.

You can’t chide OP and her husband, they aren’t the co owners. A man with dementia is. OP hasn’t been able to bear responsibility. I’m not sure why his son and uncle haven’t already transferred his share of the home since he isn’t capable of making the executive decisions needed for this.

Of course I can because DH slide right into the role of his father and kept the hands off approach. And OP says they don’t want to sell because her own adult children still like going to the beach house all summer. So yes, the OP and her DH love all the benefits of “co-owning” but want none of the responsibility. They want it both ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The uncle is taking advantage of your DH. Calmly, your DH should talk to him and ask why this purchase wasn’t mentioned 2 months ago? Yes, this will probably affect your relationship with the uncle. Too bad, so sad.

Well, I think it depends on whether OP wants to continue a relationship or not. If he values that, he should not argue, mention it to uncle and then get some legal language together to make that clear in the future and just blame his lawyer/financial planner, even if he doesn’t have one.

To me, it’s not about letting people walk all over him or not. It’s about whether he wants to have a relationship with his uncle and cousins. In that case, he will have to let some things slide.

So it’s a relationship based on doing whatever the uncle and his family want rather than being adults and discussing non-emergency purchases in advance?

NP here. This also seems like a relationship where OP and her DH don't do any of the work and are fine allowing the uncle and his family to do all of the necessary homeownership maintenance and admin while they still get to enjoy owning the house. Yet they want the power of veto for furniture that they decide is too expensive, yet OP admits they can afford it.

I have no idea whether the uncle's family is taking advantage of DH by requesting reimbursement for excessively expensive furniture. But DH is taking advantage of not doing anything homeownership wise 100% of the time while his adult kids love to go to this beach house every year.

These kind of power dynamics really irk me, and I have one involving the care of one of my parents' homes. My siblings are perfectly fine sitting back and not lifting a finger to help with the day to day grind, but then want to sweep in and say "yeah no, I don't like that" once in a while to exert power. Maintaining a home is a PITA, especially if you don't live there and it is a second home. Thinking it is ok for the uncle to bear this responsibility 100% of the time is not ok. It's not. So either get more involved and actually "co-own" the home or let them buy you out.

You can’t chide OP and her husband, they aren’t the co owners. A man with dementia is. OP hasn’t been able to bear responsibility. I’m not sure why his son and uncle haven’t already transferred his share of the home since he isn’t capable of making the executive decisions needed for this.

Of course I can because DH slide right into the role of his father and kept the hands off approach. And OP says they don’t want to sell because her own adult children still like going to the beach house all summer. So yes, the OP and her DH love all the benefits of “co-owning” but want none of the responsibility. They want it both ways.

Should read “every summer” not all. But everything else still stands.