RFK will require placebo controlled trials for vaccines

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USA is absolutely doomed with unbelievable levels of stupidity:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/rfk-jr-require-all-new-vaccines-undergo-placebo-testing

I hate to agree with this nut job RFKjr, but I think this is a good idea. Vaccines should be evaluated uding double-blind placebo tests, as are most drugs. It completely makes sense. The results will calm down the skeptics.

I think you're missing the bigger picture. What if someone in the future wants to develop a new and better vaccine for a disease like measles? Or let's say polio. Or malaria. For well-researched and serious diseases, placebo-controlled trials are unethical because the placebo group would not receive a known effective intervention. In cases of diseases that cause serious illness or death, when existing interventions are available, the use of a placebo is typically considered unethical, and it is preferred to test the investigational agent against the standard of care.

This is going to make vaccine development much more difficult because it won't even be ethically possible to do this type of study for some diseases. It's an underhanded way of trying to stymie vaccine research and development under the guise of sounding scientific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

How in the F would you possibly administer placebo for horrific infectious disease in an ethical manner? How is science education m the US so bad?

And what would even be the benefit? We are so cooked as society

Exactly, you cannot run a double blind placebo controlled trial without clinical equipoise. This administration doesn't understand clinical trials 101 and is going to make the US 10000x worse for infectious disease. MAGA, by making it virtually impossible to develop preventative therapies for the worst diseases known to man. Can you imagine if we had this dimwit alive while smallpox was around? Imagine giving placebos to people with smallpox. Utter madness.

Actually, almost all vaccines in the US have gone through double blind placebo testing the only ones approved, not having done this, via the animal rule are: anthrax (three different ones I think) Ebola, and monkey pox/small pox. Education is useful. This just shows how dumber the administration is.

But that's only when it is ethical. If the news is reporting correctly, RFK is saying it is for ALL.

Here's some placebo kiddies, now go out and play in some zika infested woods. Yay.

And I’m saying that all approved vaccines already go through it in phase iii prior to their approval with the exception of the ones listed: anthrax, Ebola and monkey pox. This is not a new thing, it is already happening. There may be trials out there but anything deemed “approved” has already met these standards. The only thing I can think of is that he will make companies do them again (chicken pox or flu vaccine) where currently they are able to rely on the data of the placebo group from the original study.

Not all of them. There are vaccines for terrible conditions where they have to give active treatment due to ethics, which this seems to want to do away with.

They're probably trying to make it extremely difficult to run trials for vaccines. They'll magically have "data" soon showing how autism rates are declining after vaccine rates decreased due to making them harder to approve. They'll argue it is "evidence" vaccine cause autism therefore we need to severely curtain their approvals and use.

Can you identify them because they do not exist outside of the ones previously mentioned. You need to understand the difference between approved vaccines and trials. There are no approved vaccines that have not gone through this process.

Jynneos is an example of an approved vaccine where a DB, placebo control was not performed. Effectiveness was inferred through innovative trial design by comparing to the smallpox vax.

For some reason, there seems to be a block in posting vaccine related links, but Health Affairs studied pivotal trials for all vaccines approved from 2006 up to around 2020. Nearly half of the pivotal trials performed did not use placebo, but an active control. Sure, it doesn't mean the vaccines were approved in which a DB, placebo control was not used, but that is likely due to lack of effectiveness and not simply because they didn't run placebo. The point is that it's simply not true all pivotal trials for vaccines use placebo controls.

By requiring a DB, placebo control, there may be future vaccines for terrible diseases that are now much more difficult to develop. It also curtails innovative trial design, like that used to support the approval of Jynneos, for exmaple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

How in the F would you possibly administer placebo for horrific infectious disease in an ethical manner? How is science education m the US so bad?

And what would even be the benefit? We are so cooked as society

Exactly, you cannot run a double blind placebo controlled trial without clinical equipoise. This administration doesn't understand clinical trials 101 and is going to make the US 10000x worse for infectious disease. MAGA, by making it virtually impossible to develop preventative therapies for the worst diseases known to man. Can you imagine if we had this dimwit alive while smallpox was around? Imagine giving placebos to people with smallpox. Utter madness.

Actually, almost all vaccines in the US have gone through double blind placebo testing the only ones approved, not having done this, via the animal rule are: anthrax (three different ones I think) Ebola, and monkey pox/small pox. Education is useful. This just shows how dumber the administration is.

This. I guess it's too much to expect that people seek out the most basic understanding of how it actually works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

Most vaccines go through placebo testing already. Usually happens in Phase III for new vax. Something already cleared say chicken pox, new versions do not need to go through a placebo testing phase because they use the data from the first trial. Just more expense nothing new here.

This is something new and it will prevent the production of the flu vaccine altogether. This policy show exactly why we shouldnt appoint a conspiracy theorist nut job lawyer with no healthcare experience to run HHS.

And that's a good thing. Surely by now people realize that the flu vaccine doesn't work...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

How in the F would you possibly administer placebo for horrific infectious disease in an ethical manner? How is science education m the US so bad?

And what would even be the benefit? We are so cooked as society

Exactly, you cannot run a double blind placebo controlled trial without clinical equipoise. This administration doesn't understand clinical trials 101 and is going to make the US 10000x worse for infectious disease. MAGA, by making it virtually impossible to develop preventative therapies for the worst diseases known to man. Can you imagine if we had this dimwit alive while smallpox was around? Imagine giving placebos to people with smallpox. Utter madness.

Actually, almost all vaccines in the US have gone through double blind placebo testing the only ones approved, not having done this, via the animal rule are: anthrax (three different ones I think) Ebola, and monkey pox/small pox. Education is useful. This just shows how dumber the administration is.

This. I guess it's too much to expect that people seek out the most basic understanding of how it actually works.

It's hilarious to see the first page full of "that's unethical" then the "we already do that" crew takes over ...

[Anonymous]

How when this would not pass any IRB? He has proposed something inherently illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

How in the F would you possibly administer placebo for horrific infectious disease in an ethical manner? How is science education m the US so bad?

And what would even be the benefit? We are so cooked as society

Exactly, you cannot run a double blind placebo controlled trial without clinical equipoise. This administration doesn't understand clinical trials 101 and is going to make the US 10000x worse for infectious disease. MAGA, by making it virtually impossible to develop preventative therapies for the worst diseases known to man. Can you imagine if we had this dimwit alive while smallpox was around? Imagine giving placebos to people with smallpox. Utter madness.

Actually, almost all vaccines in the US have gone through double blind placebo testing the only ones approved, not having done this, via the animal rule are: anthrax (three different ones I think) Ebola, and monkey pox/small pox. Education is useful. This just shows how dumber the administration is.

This. I guess it's too much to expect that people seek out the most basic understanding of how it actually works.

It's hilarious to see the first page full of "that's unethical" then the "we already do that" crew takes over ...

It's actually both. Unethical to go back and retest vaccines known to be safe using a placebo. Also a waste of my tax dollars, frankly.

[Anonymous]

The worm won

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

So you are volunteering?

The reason you can’t ethically run a vaccine trial against an inactive placebo is that we already have proven vaccines so doing so would be massively unethical. You would be intentionally depriving the placebo group of proven prevention. That has been deemed impossibly unethical since the Tuskegee trial in the 20th centuries.

Exactly who would you like to see receive no prevention for preventable conditions in said trials?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

Do you want to DM so I can share links for double blinds for vax testing with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

So you are volunteering?

The reason you can’t ethically run a vaccine trial against an inactive placebo is that we already have proven vaccines so doing so would be massively unethical. You would be intentionally depriving the placebo group of proven prevention. That has been deemed impossibly unethical since the Tuskegee trial in the 20th centuries.

Exactly who would you like to see receive no prevention for preventable conditions in said trials?

Are you adding to the PP? Or did you massively miss their sarcastic poke?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

Most vaccines go through placebo testing already. Usually happens in Phase III for new vax. Something already cleared say chicken pox, new versions do not need to go through a placebo testing phase because they use the data from the first trial. Just more expense nothing new here.

This is something new and it will prevent the production of the flu vaccine altogether. This policy show exactly why we shouldnt appoint a conspiracy theorist nut job lawyer with no healthcare experience to run HHS.

And that's a good thing. Surely by now people realize that the flu vaccine doesn't work...

You're kidding, right? If not, then relieved that my children are now old enough that they will never be exposed to you in a classroom setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

Most vaccines go through placebo testing already. Usually happens in Phase III for new vax. Something already cleared say chicken pox, new versions do not need to go through a placebo testing phase because they use the data from the first trial. Just more expense nothing new here.

This is something new and it will prevent the production of the flu vaccine altogether. This policy show exactly why we shouldnt appoint a conspiracy theorist nut job lawyer with no healthcare experience to run HHS.

And that's a good thing. Surely by now people realize that the flu vaccine doesn't work...

You're kidding, right? If not, then relieved that my children are now old enough that they will never be exposed to you in a classroom setting.

I'm guessing you got your whole family flu shots every year, got the flu and excused it as a bad match that year right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

How in the F would you possibly administer placebo for horrific infectious disease in an ethical manner? How is science education m the US so bad?

And what would even be the benefit? We are so cooked as society

Exactly, you cannot run a double blind placebo controlled trial without clinical equipoise. This administration doesn't understand clinical trials 101 and is going to make the US 10000x worse for infectious disease. MAGA, by making it virtually impossible to develop preventative therapies for the worst diseases known to man. Can you imagine if we had this dimwit alive while smallpox was around? Imagine giving placebos to people with smallpox. Utter madness.

Actually, almost all vaccines in the US have gone through double blind placebo testing the only ones approved, not having done this, via the animal rule are: anthrax (three different ones I think) Ebola, and monkey pox/small pox. Education is useful. This just shows how dumber the administration is.

This. I guess it's too much to expect that people seek out the most basic understanding of how it actually works.

It's hilarious to see the first page full of "that's unethical" then the "we already do that" crew takes over ...

It's almost like more than one person is posting. Weird.

Hey, do you think you could get RFKJ to advocate for randomized controlled trials for the "drugs and vitamins" he's proposing to treat measles, because that evidence sure isn't there.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-cdc-measles-treatment-guidance/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=809744998

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was shocked to find out that vaccines weren't double blind with placebos.

Most vaccines go through placebo testing already. Usually happens in Phase III for new vax. Something already cleared say chicken pox, new versions do not need to go through a placebo testing phase because they use the data from the first trial. Just more expense nothing new here.

This is something new and it will prevent the production of the flu vaccine altogether. This policy show exactly why we shouldnt appoint a conspiracy theorist nut job lawyer with no healthcare experience to run HHS.

And that's a good thing. Surely by now people realize that the flu vaccine doesn't work...

You're kidding, right? If not, then relieved that my children are now old enough that they will never be exposed to you in a classroom setting.

I'm guessing you got your whole family flu shots every year, got the flu and excused it as a bad match that year right?

This Season's Flu Vaccines Reduced Flu Medical Visits and Hospitalizations Across All Ages (2024, as the flu season 2025 just finished and the data is still being compiled)
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/whats-new/2023-2024-vaccines-reduce-medical-visits.html

Aw shucks, don't make no difference if you feel poorly for a few days versus getting hospitalized with that there pneumonia, amirite?