Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?

[Anonymous]

It is more flexible than it used to be--but it has not been too many years since German kids were tracked pretty much from the time they were 10 years old (and took a test) into: gymnasium (university); commercial; or trade. I suspect it is still difficult to switch from one to the other, even though there is some more flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they want to leave IB at the current IB schools and the parents are ok with that, fine. Just don’t ask any of the rest of us to get redistricted into your schools to improve your scores or increase your enrollments. We don’t want IB and we won’t send our kids to these schools.

+1

And it's ludicrous that they would even consider moving kids from AP pyramids to IB pyramids to backfill for the kids they have pupil placed from those very schools into AP schools. How will they accommodate the hundreds of additional pupil placement requests at that point? They can't. The only sensible solution is to bring all kids back to their base schools and offer AP everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want to leave IB at the current IB schools and the parents are ok with that, fine. Just don’t ask any of the rest of us to get redistricted into your schools to improve your scores or increase your enrollments. We don’t want IB and we won’t send our kids to these schools.

The parents at IB schools ar enot asked how they feel about the program, I think most of us would say we would prefer AP, I am guessing it would be at least 70% of the people who responded would say to tank IB. But the school board doesn't ask us. There is a reason why kids principal place out of IB schools, they prefer AP.

IB has some good points to it but it is not a good fit for a lot of students. We are not a European country were kids are tracked into schools based on college preparedness or votech positions. We don't have every student preparing to sit their exams as seniors. The math curriculum is in no way shape or form of interest to my kid who loves math. He owuld have to take Calculus online if he wants to take calculus, which is ridiculous. I have no objection to the reading a research elements of the program, but the math track is, in my opinion, problematic. I don't like the limited number of exams that the students can take. I don't like that my friends whose kids took IB exams have had to submit course syllabi and other supporting material to get credit at their colleges. And I don't think it prepares kids any better for college then an AP program. Lots of kids attend college out of AP schools and I don't think they struggle all that much. Both programs are rigourous even if it is in a different way.

Agree. IB really works best for European kids taking a gap year. You don’t even find out if you’ve received an IB diploma until after you’ve graduated and by then most American students have gone through the admissions process and already have plans.

Even so, at some schools it’s clear who is on the IB diploma track, and who isn’t, so if you’re an above-average kid who for whatever reason doesn’t want to do the full IB program you are better off at an AP school where you won’t be stigmatized for not being on the IB diploma track.

Really, we should only have one IB school in FCPS, reserved for kids who commit to doing the full program. Put it at Lewis and make it a lottery if there are more than 450 interested kids per year.

There are only around 300 students per grade average who pursue the IB diploma each year across all of FCPS. Many of them would switch to AP in a heartbeat.

FCPS could not fill a magnet high school with IB. They would need to add one more program; maybe a language magnet would work.

[Anonymous]

I like our IB school and like the program. Actually prefer it for my humanities kid. But I think we should just have 2-3 at most IB schools at FCPS. Maybe Marshall, South Lakes, and ? I think it’s often used as an excuse to pupil place elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really feel like everyone who hates IB here has no experience of it. DC is a science focused learner and has loved the IB program. My child was writing averse, but IB has taught them how to think critically and write at a much higher and deeper level. It’s an excellent program. I have three friends who are deans at various colleges and many friends who are professors and all have said that they prefer IB students over AP. They say IB students are better prepared for college, write and think critically, and are generally more successful at their universities.

I don’t understand the IB hate. AP is riddled with flaws too. From being too prescriptive and not allowing any Socratic discourse, teachers teaching exclusively to the test and not utilizing any extensions, the breath of the material tested so wide that students are taught to memorize instead of critically think, and perhaps the most important, universities aren’t offering college credit for successful completion of these classes anymore. Not to mention the ridiculousness of the College Board money grab by making HSs offer HS level classes as AP (AP Pre-calculus, AP Computer Science Fundamentals, among others.).

You accuse people of not understanding IB, but your description of AP courses is just as ignorant. - AP teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are zoned for an IB school. Although we now understand IB more than before we still wish we looked at houses within a non-IB high school instead. I have a child who is not well rounded but super talented in math and science but weak in writing. IB diploma is not fair for kids like my daughter and others like her. They will do so much better at an AP school where they can focus on subjects they are enthusiastic. IB is the same BS as the holistic review in AAP or TJ essay writing or whatever FCPS calls it.

I think a common misconception is that you cannot take IB courses in areas of strength only. My middle child just graduated last year and had an IEP for autism and ADHD. She took IB in Japanese and Literature, but took team-taught or General Ed in subjects she was weaker in. My youngest is graduating this year, and is taking a mix of IB and dual enrollment because she wanted to have more flexibility than doing full IB allowed due to her college aspirations.

No one is confused here. Sure, you can do this, but it’s a waste of taxpayer money to be propping up IB programs where kids aren’t doing the full diploma program. Your kids would have had even more flexibility with AP courses and it would cost FCPS less.

But AP is not the same as IB. IB is much more writing intensive even if you don’t get the full diploma. I agree that it should be available only at a couple of schools since AP is the preference for most people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want to leave IB at the current IB schools and the parents are ok with that, fine. Just don’t ask any of the rest of us to get redistricted into your schools to improve your scores or increase your enrollments. We don’t want IB and we won’t send our kids to these schools.

+1

And it's ludicrous that they would even consider moving kids from AP pyramids to IB pyramids to backfill for the kids they have pupil placed from those very schools into AP schools. How will they accommodate the hundreds of additional pupil placement requests at that point? They can't. The only sensible solution is to bring all kids back to their base schools and offer AP everywhere.

+1

But, they did this when they sent so many Westfield and Oakton kids to South Lakes. Again, they begged for a change to AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are zoned for an IB school. Although we now understand IB more than before we still wish we looked at houses within a non-IB high school instead. I have a child who is not well rounded but super talented in math and science but weak in writing. IB diploma is not fair for kids like my daughter and others like her. They will do so much better at an AP school where they can focus on subjects they are enthusiastic. IB is the same BS as the holistic review in AAP or TJ essay writing or whatever FCPS calls it.

I think a common misconception is that you cannot take IB courses in areas of strength only. My middle child just graduated last year and had an IEP for autism and ADHD. She took IB in Japanese and Literature, but took team-taught or General Ed in subjects she was weaker in. My youngest is graduating this year, and is taking a mix of IB and dual enrollment because she wanted to have more flexibility than doing full IB allowed due to her college aspirations.

No one is confused here. Sure, you can do this, but it’s a waste of taxpayer money to be propping up IB programs where kids aren’t doing the full diploma program. Your kids would have had even more flexibility with AP courses and it would cost FCPS less.

But AP is not the same as IB. IB is much more writing intensive even if you don’t get the full diploma. I agree that it should be available only at a couple of schools since AP is the preference for most people.

You can take writing-intensive AP courses. They just don’t turn assignments in every course into make-work, writing-heavy projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really feel like everyone who hates IB here has no experience of it. DC is a science focused learner and has loved the IB program. My child was writing averse, but IB has taught them how to think critically and write at a much higher and deeper level. It’s an excellent program. I have three friends who are deans at various colleges and many friends who are professors and all have said that they prefer IB students over AP. They say IB students are better prepared for college, write and think critically, and are generally more successful at their universities.

I don’t understand the IB hate. AP is riddled with flaws too. From being too prescriptive and not allowing any Socratic discourse, teachers teaching exclusively to the test and not utilizing any extensions, the breath of the material tested so wide that students are taught to memorize instead of critically think, and perhaps the most important, universities aren’t offering college credit for successful completion of these classes anymore. Not to mention the ridiculousness of the College Board money grab by making HSs offer HS level classes as AP (AP Pre-calculus, AP Computer Science Fundamentals, among others.).

You accuse people of not understanding IB, but your description of AP courses is just as ignorant. - AP teacher

The IBO’s North American headquarters are in the DC area. They monitor DCUM threads and post a lot of pro-IB propaganda, which then gets repeated by defensive parents zoned for IB schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want to leave IB at the current IB schools and the parents are ok with that, fine. Just don’t ask any of the rest of us to get redistricted into your schools to improve your scores or increase your enrollments. We don’t want IB and we won’t send our kids to these schools.

The parents at IB schools ar enot asked how they feel about the program, I think most of us would say we would prefer AP, I am guessing it would be at least 70% of the people who responded would say to tank IB. But the school board doesn't ask us. There is a reason why kids principal place out of IB schools, they prefer AP.

IB has some good points to it but it is not a good fit for a lot of students. We are not a European country were kids are tracked into schools based on college preparedness or votech positions. We don't have every student preparing to sit their exams as seniors. The math curriculum is in no way shape or form of interest to my kid who loves math. He owuld have to take Calculus online if he wants to take calculus, which is ridiculous. I have no objection to the reading a research elements of the program, but the math track is, in my opinion, problematic. I don't like the limited number of exams that the students can take. I don't like that my friends whose kids took IB exams have had to submit course syllabi and other supporting material to get credit at their colleges. And I don't think it prepares kids any better for college then an AP program. Lots of kids attend college out of AP schools and I don't think they struggle all that much. Both programs are rigourous even if it is in a different way.

Agree. IB really works best for European kids taking a gap year. You don’t even find out if you’ve received an IB diploma until after you’ve graduated and by then most American students have gone through the admissions process and already have plans.

Even so, at some schools it’s clear who is on the IB diploma track, and who isn’t, so if you’re an above-average kid who for whatever reason doesn’t want to do the full IB program you are better off at an AP school where you won’t be stigmatized for not being on the IB diploma track.

Really, we should only have one IB school in FCPS, reserved for kids who commit to doing the full program. Put it at Lewis and make it a lottery if there are more than 450 interested kids per year.

There are only around 300 students per grade average who pursue the IB diploma each year across all of FCPS. Many of them would switch to AP in a heartbeat.

FCPS could not fill a magnet high school with IB. They would need to add one more program; maybe a language magnet would work.

The dynamics would change if FCPS created a high school only for kids committed to pursuing the full IB diploma. That high school would have greater appeal than the current model, and you'd see more kids pursuing the full IB diploma.

But a single IB school in FCPS, with a lottery if necessary, is the type of creative solution that FCPS pretends to want to consider, but rarely does. They are more inclined to shovel kids into IB schools against their will and then shrug if there is a lot of attrition from those schools through kids pupil placing, moving, or going private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want to leave IB at the current IB schools and the parents are ok with that, fine. Just don’t ask any of the rest of us to get redistricted into your schools to improve your scores or increase your enrollments. We don’t want IB and we won’t send our kids to these schools.

The parents at IB schools ar enot asked how they feel about the program, I think most of us would say we would prefer AP, I am guessing it would be at least 70% of the people who responded would say to tank IB. But the school board doesn't ask us. There is a reason why kids principal place out of IB schools, they prefer AP.

IB has some good points to it but it is not a good fit for a lot of students. We are not a European country were kids are tracked into schools based on college preparedness or votech positions. We don't have every student preparing to sit their exams as seniors. The math curriculum is in no way shape or form of interest to my kid who loves math. He owuld have to take Calculus online if he wants to take calculus, which is ridiculous. I have no objection to the reading a research elements of the program, but the math track is, in my opinion, problematic. I don't like the limited number of exams that the students can take. I don't like that my friends whose kids took IB exams have had to submit course syllabi and other supporting material to get credit at their colleges. And I don't think it prepares kids any better for college then an AP program. Lots of kids attend college out of AP schools and I don't think they struggle all that much. Both programs are rigourous even if it is in a different way.

Agree. IB really works best for European kids taking a gap year. You don’t even find out if you’ve received an IB diploma until after you’ve graduated and by then most American students have gone through the admissions process and already have plans.

Even so, at some schools it’s clear who is on the IB diploma track, and who isn’t, so if you’re an above-average kid who for whatever reason doesn’t want to do the full IB program you are better off at an AP school where you won’t be stigmatized for not being on the IB diploma track.

Really, we should only have one IB school in FCPS, reserved for kids who commit to doing the full program. Put it at Lewis and make it a lottery if there are more than 450 interested kids per year.

There are only around 300 students per grade average who pursue the IB diploma each year across all of FCPS. Many of them would switch to AP in a heartbeat.

FCPS could not fill a magnet high school with IB. They would need to add one more program; maybe a language magnet would work.

The dynamics would change if FCPS created a high school only for kids committed to pursuing the full IB diploma. That high school would have greater appeal than the current model, and you'd see more kids pursuing the full IB diploma.

But a single IB school in FCPS, with a lottery if necessary, is the type of creative solution that FCPS pretends to want to consider, but rarely does. They are more inclined to shovel kids into IB schools against their will and then shrug if there is a lot of attrition from those schools through kids pupil placing, moving, or going private.

So, this school would have to be TJ style--with no boundaries.

I suspect it would not have that many applicants. But, maybe I am wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they want to leave IB at the current IB schools and the parents are ok with that, fine. Just don’t ask any of the rest of us to get redistricted into your schools to improve your scores or increase your enrollments. We don’t want IB and we won’t send our kids to these schools.

The parents at IB schools ar enot asked how they feel about the program, I think most of us would say we would prefer AP, I am guessing it would be at least 70% of the people who responded would say to tank IB. But the school board doesn't ask us. There is a reason why kids principal place out of IB schools, they prefer AP.

IB has some good points to it but it is not a good fit for a lot of students. We are not a European country were kids are tracked into schools based on college preparedness or votech positions. We don't have every student preparing to sit their exams as seniors. The math curriculum is in no way shape or form of interest to my kid who loves math. He owuld have to take Calculus online if he wants to take calculus, which is ridiculous. I have no objection to the reading a research elements of the program, but the math track is, in my opinion, problematic. I don't like the limited number of exams that the students can take. I don't like that my friends whose kids took IB exams have had to submit course syllabi and other supporting material to get credit at their colleges. And I don't think it prepares kids any better for college then an AP program. Lots of kids attend college out of AP schools and I don't think they struggle all that much. Both programs are rigourous even if it is in a different way.

Agree. IB really works best for European kids taking a gap year. You don’t even find out if you’ve received an IB diploma until after you’ve graduated and by then most American students have gone through the admissions process and already have plans.

Even so, at some schools it’s clear who is on the IB diploma track, and who isn’t, so if you’re an above-average kid who for whatever reason doesn’t want to do the full IB program you are better off at an AP school where you won’t be stigmatized for not being on the IB diploma track.

Really, we should only have one IB school in FCPS, reserved for kids who commit to doing the full program. Put it at Lewis and make it a lottery if there are more than 450 interested kids per year.

There are only around 300 students per grade average who pursue the IB diploma each year across all of FCPS. Many of them would switch to AP in a heartbeat.

FCPS could not fill a magnet high school with IB. They would need to add one more program; maybe a language magnet would work.

The dynamics would change if FCPS created a high school only for kids committed to pursuing the full IB diploma. That high school would have greater appeal than the current model, and you'd see more kids pursuing the full IB diploma.

But a single IB school in FCPS, with a lottery if necessary, is the type of creative solution that FCPS pretends to want to consider, but rarely does. They are more inclined to shovel kids into IB schools against their will and then shrug if there is a lot of attrition from those schools through kids pupil placing, moving, or going private.

There aren’t enough kids who want the full diploma. It would be a huge waste to make an IB magnet school. Cut the program and cut the expensive licensing fees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really feel like everyone who hates IB here has no experience of it. DC is a science focused learner and has loved the IB program. My child was writing averse, but IB has taught them how to think critically and write at a much higher and deeper level. It’s an excellent program. I have three friends who are deans at various colleges and many friends who are professors and all have said that they prefer IB students over AP. They say IB students are better prepared for college, write and think critically, and are generally more successful at their universities.

I don’t understand the IB hate. AP is riddled with flaws too. From being too prescriptive and not allowing any Socratic discourse, teachers teaching exclusively to the test and not utilizing any extensions, the breath of the material tested so wide that students are taught to memorize instead of critically think, and perhaps the most important, universities aren’t offering college credit for successful completion of these classes anymore. Not to mention the ridiculousness of the College Board money grab by making HSs offer HS level classes as AP (AP Pre-calculus, AP Computer Science Fundamentals, among others.).

You accuse people of not understanding IB, but your description of AP courses is just as ignorant. - AP teacher

The IBO’s North American headquarters are in the DC area. They monitor DCUM threads and post a lot of pro-IB propaganda, which then gets repeated by defensive parents zoned for IB schools.

Ok tin foil hat lady. I have a kid in IB, I think it’s a good program. I have nothing against AP. I think both programs have their pros and cons. If could pick I would do IB for one kid, AP for my other kid. But you really can’t fathom that someone might disagree with you? And therefore anyone who does, is either an IBO employee or a“defensive parent?” And if they are monitoring DCUM to post “pro IB propaganda,” they do a piss poor job of it bc DCUM (FCPS esp) hates it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lewis attempted to get rid of it last year but they got a bunch of push back.

They got a bunch of push back because 200-300 Lewis zoned kids are using IB to transfer to AP schools.

I think they would get push back from Annandale parents who have their kids at Lake Braddock too

THIS is how they bring “equity” to programs and build these struggling schools back up. These two examples, Lewis and Annandale, could entice family’s to not transfer out if they had AP

OMG! They are not transferring because they want AP instead of IB. It just gives them an excuse to transfer out of a bad school.

Same way parents choose South Lakes IB program just to escape Herndon HS.

And can you blame the parents?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lewis attempted to get rid of it last year but they got a bunch of push back.

They got a bunch of push back because 200-300 Lewis zoned kids are using IB to transfer to AP schools.

I think they would get push back from Annandale parents who have their kids at Lake Braddock too

THIS is how they bring “equity” to programs and build these struggling schools back up. These two examples, Lewis and Annandale, could entice family’s to not transfer out if they had AP

OMG! They are not transferring because they want AP instead of IB. It just gives them an excuse to transfer out of a bad school.

Same way parents choose South Lakes IB program just to escape Herndon HS.

And can you blame the parents?

And to clarify, the schools are not bad because the curriculum or teachers are bad - it is all about the peers.

TBH, if I could afford I would have my children in a nice private school. That peerage and friendship they form pays ten folds later on, when looking for internships and jobs.