Serious effort to remove IB from FCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are zoned for an IB school. Although we now understand IB more than before we still wish we looked at houses within a non-IB high school instead. I have a child who is not well rounded but super talented in math and science but weak in writing. IB diploma is not fair for kids like my daughter and others like her. They will do so much better at an AP school where they can focus on subjects they are enthusiastic. IB is the same BS as the holistic review in AAP or TJ essay writing or whatever FCPS calls it.

That's not what high school is about. You're supposed to be getting a general education in high school. Letting a teenager just focus on the subjects they like is the surefire way to never have them develop skills in areas where they are weak. We should want them to develop basic skills in those areas.

When they go to college, they get to pick a major. Not in high school.

Your comment captures well why IB sucks. Students and parents are in the best position to decide what their high school education is about, what skills to develop and how to address their weaknesses.

Foreign language skills matter less these days with instant translation of everything and English being the lingua Franca of the world.

Humanities, or information collecting subjects matter less, see the abysmal enrollment in English and History majors that have been declining for decades.

A program like IB where you pick one of each in the last two years of high school in math, science, English, social sciences, foreign language and arts is only balanced on paper. It’s a poor choice for most students.

IB vs AP aside, I think the focus on STEM at the expense of humanities in the US is troubling.

I’d say it’s more troubling to see the English major with 200k in student debt asking if you want fries with that order.

Besides teaching, there are few career option for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are zoned for an IB school. Although we now understand IB more than before we still wish we looked at houses within a non-IB high school instead. I have a child who is not well rounded but super talented in math and science but weak in writing. IB diploma is not fair for kids like my daughter and others like her. They will do so much better at an AP school where they can focus on subjects they are enthusiastic. IB is the same BS as the holistic review in AAP or TJ essay writing or whatever FCPS calls it.

That's not what high school is about. You're supposed to be getting a general education in high school. Letting a teenager just focus on the subjects they like is the surefire way to never have them develop skills in areas where they are weak. We should want them to develop basic skills in those areas.

When they go to college, they get to pick a major. Not in high school.

Your comment captures well why IB sucks. Students and parents are in the best position to decide what their high school education is about, what skills to develop and how to address their weaknesses.

Foreign language skills matter less these days with instant translation of everything and English being the lingua Franca of the world.

Humanities, or information collecting subjects matter less, see the abysmal enrollment in English and History majors that have been declining for decades.

A program like IB where you pick one of each in the last two years of high school in math, science, English, social sciences, foreign language and arts is only balanced on paper. It’s a poor choice for most students.

DP. We are in agreement about one thing: students and parents are in the best position to make these decisions.

And guess what? Some parents don’t agree with you. My daughter had a very successful experience in IB, and we’d do it again. She’s a thoughtful human, a strong writer, and she walked into college with a heap of credit.

I’m convinced there are only 2-3 regular posters on this thread who are vehemently anti-IB and they won’t stand down until every other parent relents.

The number of students switching from IB to AP schools tell a different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are zoned for an IB school. Although we now understand IB more than before we still wish we looked at houses within a non-IB high school instead. I have a child who is not well rounded but super talented in math and science but weak in writing. IB diploma is not fair for kids like my daughter and others like her. They will do so much better at an AP school where they can focus on subjects they are enthusiastic. IB is the same BS as the holistic review in AAP or TJ essay writing or whatever FCPS calls it.

That's not what high school is about. You're supposed to be getting a general education in high school. Letting a teenager just focus on the subjects they like is the surefire way to never have them develop skills in areas where they are weak. We should want them to develop basic skills in those areas.

When they go to college, they get to pick a major. Not in high school.

Your comment captures well why IB sucks. Students and parents are in the best position to decide what their high school education is about, what skills to develop and how to address their weaknesses.

Foreign language skills matter less these days with instant translation of everything and English being the lingua Franca of the world.

Humanities, or information collecting subjects matter less, see the abysmal enrollment in English and History majors that have been declining for decades.

A program like IB where you pick one of each in the last two years of high school in math, science, English, social sciences, foreign language and arts is only balanced on paper. It’s a poor choice for most students.

DP. We are in agreement about one thing: students and parents are in the best position to make these decisions.

And guess what? Some parents don’t agree with you. My daughter had a very successful experience in IB, and we’d do it again. She’s a thoughtful human, a strong writer, and she walked into college with a heap of credit.

I’m convinced there are only 2-3 regular posters on this thread who are vehemently anti-IB and they won’t stand down until every other parent relents.

The number of students switching from IB to AP schools tell a different story.

Indeed. As noted earlier in the thread, IB schools account for almost 1/3 of the high/secondary schools in FCPS (8 out of 25), yet 9 of the 10 schools with the fewest kids pupil placing to other schools are AP schools.

[Anonymous]

It should be AP throughout the entire district. Dual enrollment as an opt in (it is now), as should be IB. None of that forced enrollment because it’s the only option at the high school.

If that were the case I bet the IB numbers would plummet.

If you’re a die hard fan of IB you could still take it unless the enrollment is below the threshold of one class, at which point would have to go to a magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are zoned for an IB school. Although we now understand IB more than before we still wish we looked at houses within a non-IB high school instead. I have a child who is not well rounded but super talented in math and science but weak in writing. IB diploma is not fair for kids like my daughter and others like her. They will do so much better at an AP school where they can focus on subjects they are enthusiastic. IB is the same BS as the holistic review in AAP or TJ essay writing or whatever FCPS calls it.

That's not what high school is about. You're supposed to be getting a general education in high school. Letting a teenager just focus on the subjects they like is the surefire way to never have them develop skills in areas where they are weak. We should want them to develop basic skills in those areas.

When they go to college, they get to pick a major. Not in high school.

In many countries, high school is like college and students are already on more specialized tracks.

My kids currently attend an IB school. They are taking all IB courses, but not getting the diploma. Why? Bc they are STEM focused and none of us saw the need to continue two more years of a foreign language when one can take other IB STEM courses. An AP a la carte school would serve them, and many other students, much better than IB. But we didn't transfer bc their friends were at the base school.

Specialized tracks are why this country is such a hot mess. We aren’t teaching kids how to think critically. They may be right for some kids, but everyone should be taught critical thinking skills. Period. After high school, you can specialize all you want. K-12 is for fundamentals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are zoned for an IB school. Although we now understand IB more than before we still wish we looked at houses within a non-IB high school instead. I have a child who is not well rounded but super talented in math and science but weak in writing. IB diploma is not fair for kids like my daughter and others like her. They will do so much better at an AP school where they can focus on subjects they are enthusiastic. IB is the same BS as the holistic review in AAP or TJ essay writing or whatever FCPS calls it.

That's not what high school is about. You're supposed to be getting a general education in high school. Letting a teenager just focus on the subjects they like is the surefire way to never have them develop skills in areas where they are weak. We should want them to develop basic skills in those areas.

When they go to college, they get to pick a major. Not in high school.

In many countries, high school is like college and students are already on more specialized tracks.

My kids currently attend an IB school. They are taking all IB courses, but not getting the diploma. Why? Bc they are STEM focused and none of us saw the need to continue two more years of a foreign language when one can take other IB STEM courses. An AP a la carte school would serve them, and many other students, much better than IB. But we didn't transfer bc their friends were at the base school.

Specialized tracks are why this country is such a hot mess. We aren’t teaching kids how to think critically. They may be right for some kids, but everyone should be taught critical thinking skills. Period. After high school, you can specialize all you want. K-12 is for fundamentals.

I don't know how many years of a foreign language your kids took. You may not see the need for more, but many colleges do in their admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Robinson parent. While parents I know, myself included, are happy with the school overall and wouldn’t transfer our kids, I think most of us would prefer AP for the school over IB. There would be a couple of messy years to grandfather in IB if there were a switch (for kids to finish out diplomas, finish second year of two-year courses). But I don’t think a switch would be that disruptive given most kids don’t begin IB classes until junior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Robinson parent. While parents I know, myself included, are happy with the school overall and wouldn’t transfer our kids, I think most of us would prefer AP for the school over IB. There would be a couple of messy years to grandfather in IB if there were a switch (for kids to finish out diplomas, finish second year of two-year courses). But I don’t think a switch would be that disruptive given most kids don’t begin IB classes until junior year.

This, this this. Robinson parent who is also happy with the school, IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are zoned for an IB school. Although we now understand IB more than before we still wish we looked at houses within a non-IB high school instead. I have a child who is not well rounded but super talented in math and science but weak in writing. IB diploma is not fair for kids like my daughter and others like her. They will do so much better at an AP school where they can focus on subjects they are enthusiastic. IB is the same BS as the holistic review in AAP or TJ essay writing or whatever FCPS calls it.

That's not what high school is about. You're supposed to be getting a general education in high school. Letting a teenager just focus on the subjects they like is the surefire way to never have them develop skills in areas where they are weak. We should want them to develop basic skills in those areas.

When they go to college, they get to pick a major. Not in high school.

In many countries, high school is like college and students are already on more specialized tracks.

My kids currently attend an IB school. They are taking all IB courses, but not getting the diploma. Why? Bc they are STEM focused and none of us saw the need to continue two more years of a foreign language when one can take other IB STEM courses. An AP a la carte school would serve them, and many other students, much better than IB. But we didn't transfer bc their friends were at the base school.

Specialized tracks are why this country is such a hot mess. We aren’t teaching kids how to think critically. They may be right for some kids, but everyone should be taught critical thinking skills. Period. After high school, you can specialize all you want. K-12 is for fundamentals.

Sure, let’s blame the mess in the country on specialized tracks in high school, great critical thinking gurl (or bro). If by critical thinking you mean crappy IB offerings like ToK, CAS and art, I’ll pass.

For foreign language there’s a huge variety of learners. There are native and heritage speakers, kids that started a foreign language in early childhood, kids that started in middle school, kids that have no interest or talent. The one size fits all approach in IB to mandate a foreign language for the diploma and putting everyone in the same class is a disservice to many of them. In AP, advanced kids can take the foreign language in 9th grade and focus on other areas. Some need more time and build up to take the AP exam in 12th grade. Some choose to do four years of foreign language, counting middle school years or not, without taking the AP class. Others decide that two years of foreign language is good enough because theres no point if there’s no interest or talent. All are valid and appropriate choices.

This is just one of the many examples of how the rigidity of the IB diploma program is not serving students well.

The typical IB cheerleader response is “wait wait, critical thinking, well rounded education, lifelong learners, global citizen bla bla”. First of all IB does not have a monopoly on them, and I have serious doubts that is even doing them well. Second, while IB might work for a small sliver of the student body, it’s doesn’t work for the remaining majority. So you can’t mandate IB for everyone, just because it’s good for a tiny fraction. Just pick the most flexible option that maximizes the benefit for all, which in this case is hands down AP. Add dual enrollment as another option for advanced coursework, and there aren’t many good arguments to keep IB, which btw is the most expensive of all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Robinson parent. While parents I know, myself included, are happy with the school overall and wouldn’t transfer our kids, I think most of us would prefer AP for the school over IB. There would be a couple of messy years to grandfather in IB if there were a switch (for kids to finish out diplomas, finish second year of two-year courses). But I don’t think a switch would be that disruptive given most kids don’t begin IB classes until junior year.

Also a Robinson parent. Totally agree. Why haven't we made this happen??

[Anonymous]

IB has it's place, it is a good program. Kids should be able to choose IB and pursue the diploma. But it should be an option and not something that kids are forced to participate in. We do not think IB is a good fit for our kid. He is taking a foreign langauge in 7th grade and Algebra 1 H. He will be eligible for Calculus in 11th grade. That is not possible at an IB school. He takes math HL, starting in 10th grade, and cannot take the test until 12th grade. And the class doesn't teach calculus. It is a mish mash of mathematical subjects. His options then are to take AP Pre Calc and AP Calc as online courses at his base school or transfer to an AP school.

Online classes are suboptimal, I am sorry, they just are. And why should parents have to provide transportation for him to take a class that is offered, in person at 2/3rds of the schools in the County? Why should my kid have to leave his friends to take classes that are offered at 2/3rds of the schools in the County?

Alexandria, Arlington, Loudoun offer IB as a selective program that kids can apply for. That is what FCPS should do. Have a few schools were IB is an option that kids can enroll in, think IB academies, while the rest of the students have access to AP classes. We have schools with lower enrollment, place the IB academies there. FCPS will provide bus service and the IB kids can attend those schools Junior and Senior year. They will have more peers interested in the diploma, which should be helpful for motivating them to succeed in a challenging program.

Not to mention, many schools do offer credit for classes that are part of the general education program if they pass the AP or IB exam at a high enough level. There are far more AP options, meaning that you can save a good amount of money at college with AP classes. IB classes that can be used for college are fewer in number and some of them are hard to get credit for. We have friends who have to submit the high school syllabus for an IB exam course in order to try and get credit for the college class. I know of no one who has had to do that with an AP class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Robinson parent. While parents I know, myself included, are happy with the school overall and wouldn’t transfer our kids, I think most of us would prefer AP for the school over IB. There would be a couple of messy years to grandfather in IB if there were a switch (for kids to finish out diplomas, finish second year of two-year courses). But I don’t think a switch would be that disruptive given most kids don’t begin IB classes until junior year.

It would have to be slowly phased in because AP students definitely start taking AP before 11th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
IB vs AP aside, I think the focus on STEM at the expense of humanities in the US is troubling.

Honestly, when I went through FCPS, the focus was way more on the humanities than on STEM, which I think was awful. Your standard diploma required 4 years of social studies and English, but only 3 of Math and Science. My FCPS high school had something like 5 levels each (at least) of band, chorus, and strings, multiple types of art classes, multiple types of drama, a bunch of other humanities electives, 4 levels of *fashion marketing*, but there was little to nothing for the STEM realm. Even the AP science classes they in theory "offered" didn't always run.

We live in a world today where people don't understand the scientific method or statistics, anti-vaxxers are running amok, nobody has a solid grounding in formal logic... I'm not saying that the humanities aren't valuable, they are, but the focus on STEM is a pendulum swing to correct for the fact that we've been neglecting STEM in our educational system for awhile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Robinson parent. While parents I know, myself included, are happy with the school overall and wouldn’t transfer our kids, I think most of us would prefer AP for the school over IB. There would be a couple of messy years to grandfather in IB if there were a switch (for kids to finish out diplomas, finish second year of two-year courses). But I don’t think a switch would be that disruptive given most kids don’t begin IB classes until junior year.

Also a Robinson parent. Totally agree. Why haven't we made this happen??

I have a rising 7th grader at Robinson. Have Robinson parents ever brought this to the principal’s attention or the school board’s attention?

[Anonymous]

We live in a world today where people don't understand the scientific method or statistics, anti-vaxxers are running amok, nobody has a solid grounding in formal logic... I'm not saying that the humanities aren't valuable, they are, but the focus on STEM is a pendulum swing to correct for the fact that we've been neglecting STEM in our educational system for awhile.

Yes. Our School Board does not even believe that biology is a science.