Error in my child’s enrichment criteria for magnet consideration. What can be done?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you don’t know what the minimum MAP-R score was, you do not know whether they meet the criteria or not. From past experience, all the parents I know that raged at MCPS for leaving their kid out of the pool find that they did not, in fact, met the criteria.

Of course if they did make a mistake they will be added to the pool for any waitlist places, but that’s unlikely.

My child’s score was well above the stated minimum.

There is no "stated minimum.". They don't publish what the different MAP score cutoffs are for each school grouping. If you're saying "I saw the words 85th percentile and assumed that means that if my child is well above the national/district-wide 85th percentile then they made the cutoff," you are incorrect. In some cases the cutoff is far above the 85th percentile and in others it's far below.

I am confident my child meets the cutoff. Period.

You’re guessing then. So do you want to share her stats if you’re so confident?

Nope, not guessing and not sharing “stats”. The intent of my thread isn’t to prove to you that my kid is eligible, it is to determine what can be done to address the error. I have submitted an appeal form and will be calling the central office tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you don’t know what the minimum MAP-R score was, you do not know whether they meet the criteria or not. From past experience, all the parents I know that raged at MCPS for leaving their kid out of the pool find that they did not, in fact, met the criteria.

Of course if they did make a mistake they will be added to the pool for any waitlist places, but that’s unlikely.

My child’s score was well above the stated minimum.

There is no "stated minimum.". They don't publish what the different MAP score cutoffs are for each school grouping. If you're saying "I saw the words 85th percentile and assumed that means that if my child is well above the national/district-wide 85th percentile then they made the cutoff," you are incorrect. In some cases the cutoff is far above the 85th percentile and in others it's far below.

I am confident my child meets the cutoff. Period.

You’re guessing then. So do you want to share her stats if you’re so confident?

Nope, not guessing and not sharing “stats”. The intent of my thread isn’t to prove to you that my kid is eligible, it is to determine what can be done to address the error. I have submitted an appeal form and will be calling the central office tomorrow.

You are definitely guessing because there is no other way for you to “know”. I look forward to your reporting back here tomorrow. They will explain to you very quickly on the phone tomorrow what happened and why you child did not in fact qualify and you can withdraw your appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you don’t know what the minimum MAP-R score was, you do not know whether they meet the criteria or not. From past experience, all the parents I know that raged at MCPS for leaving their kid out of the pool find that they did not, in fact, met the criteria.

Of course if they did make a mistake they will be added to the pool for any waitlist places, but that’s unlikely.

My child’s score was well above the stated minimum.

There is no "stated minimum.". They don't publish what the different MAP score cutoffs are for each school grouping. If you're saying "I saw the words 85th percentile and assumed that means that if my child is well above the national/district-wide 85th percentile then they made the cutoff," you are incorrect. In some cases the cutoff is far above the 85th percentile and in others it's far below.

I am confident my child meets the cutoff. Period.

You’re guessing then. So do you want to share her stats if you’re so confident?

Nope, not guessing and not sharing “stats”. The intent of my thread isn’t to prove to you that my kid is eligible, it is to determine what can be done to address the error. I have submitted an appeal form and will be calling the central office tomorrow.

You are definitely guessing because there is no other way for you to “know”. I look forward to your reporting back here tomorrow. They will explain to you very quickly on the phone tomorrow what happened and why you child did not in fact qualify and you can withdraw your appeal.

Ok, troll.

[Anonymous]

DCCAPS runs the data collection and lottery process. That goes for criteria-based magnets (CES, Math/Science/CS MS @ Takoma Park & Roberto Clemente, Humanities MS @ Eastern & King) as well as interest-based magnets (e.g., Middle School Magnet Consortium -- Parkland, Loiederman & Argyle). High school consortia, too. DCCAPS is the point of contact for information/questions, including those about individual cases where criteria may or may not have been met.

AEI and curricular offices help define criteria-based magnet programs, and they (and upper management) work with DCCAPS to identify criteria/selection methodologies (current lottery system). The implementing schools have their own approaches to managing the curriculum and placed population.

Unless your school reported incorrect information to central for DCCAPS' use in the central identification process, they likely had nothing to do with any error. Please consider that when communicating with them.

The only MAP scores at which one can be comfortably sure of qualification are those at/above the 99th percentile nationally, as the algorithm used to identify the locally normed 85th percentile starts with that 99th national percentile, identifies the associated RIT score and compares that to the scores of the population of students in each FARMS tranche. If that score or higher was achieved by 15 or more percent of that population, then they adopt that as the locally normed 85th percentile. If not, they move down one national percentile, taking that RIT score and identifying whether 15 or more percent of that FARMS-tranche population achieved at least that score. This is repeated until the condition is true, at which point that national percentile/RIT score becomes the locally normed 85th percentile for the year for that tranche.

That can mean slightly more than 15 percent of MAP scores qualify, but it also means that anyone from the same FARMS tranche assigned the same national percentile on the MAP report is treated similarly from the perspective of lottery inclusion. It also means that nobody reported as 99th percentile is excluded for that criterion (grades or reading level may do so).

The 99th national percentile RIT scores from the 2020 norms (this will change next year with the 5-year NWEA cycle) for Fall 5th grade MAP are:

MAP-M: 244
MAP-R: 243

Of course, for higher-FARMS tranches, the 85th locally normed percentile would be expected to be at a lower RIT/national percentile. However, this is not guaranteed to be the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you don’t know what the minimum MAP-R score was, you do not know whether they meet the criteria or not. From past experience, all the parents I know that raged at MCPS for leaving their kid out of the pool find that they did not, in fact, met the criteria.

Of course if they did make a mistake they will be added to the pool for any waitlist places, but that’s unlikely.

My child’s score was well above the stated minimum.

There is no "stated minimum.". They don't publish what the different MAP score cutoffs are for each school grouping. If you're saying "I saw the words 85th percentile and assumed that means that if my child is well above the national/district-wide 85th percentile then they made the cutoff," you are incorrect. In some cases the cutoff is far above the 85th percentile and in others it's far below.

I am confident my child meets the cutoff. Period.

You’re guessing then. So do you want to share her stats if you’re so confident?

Nope, not guessing and not sharing “stats”. The intent of my thread isn’t to prove to you that my kid is eligible, it is to determine what can be done to address the error. I have submitted an appeal form and will be calling the central office tomorrow.

You are definitely guessing because there is no other way for you to “know”. I look forward to your reporting back here tomorrow. They will explain to you very quickly on the phone tomorrow what happened and why you child did not in fact qualify and you can withdraw your appeal.

Since they didn't get a spot, they have a canned message ready to go to tell pissed off families. OP, if you do contact CO, do share what they say. Bet it's same bs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCCAPS runs the data collection and lottery process. That goes for criteria-based magnets (CES, Math/Science/CS MS @ Takoma Park & Roberto Clemente, Humanities MS @ Eastern & King) as well as interest-based magnets (e.g., Middle School Magnet Consortium -- Parkland, Loiederman & Argyle). High school consortia, too. DCCAPS is the point of contact for information/questions, including those about individual cases where criteria may or may not have been met.

AEI and curricular offices help define criteria-based magnet programs, and they (and upper management) work with DCCAPS to identify criteria/selection methodologies (current lottery system). The implementing schools have their own approaches to managing the curriculum and placed population.

Unless your school reported incorrect information to central for DCCAPS' use in the central identification process, they likely had nothing to do with any error. Please consider that when communicating with them.

The only MAP scores at which one can be comfortably sure of qualification are those at/above the 99th percentile nationally, as the algorithm used to identify the locally normed 85th percentile starts with that 99th national percentile, identifies the associated RIT score and compares that to the scores of the population of students in each FARMS tranche. If that score or higher was achieved by 15 or more percent of that population, then they adopt that as the locally normed 85th percentile. If not, they move down one national percentile, taking that RIT score and identifying whether 15 or more percent of that FARMS-tranche population achieved at least that score. This is repeated until the condition is true, at which point that national percentile/RIT score becomes the locally normed 85th percentile for the year for that tranche.

That can mean slightly more than 15 percent of MAP scores qualify, but it also means that anyone from the same FARMS tranche assigned the same national percentile on the MAP report is treated similarly from the perspective of lottery inclusion. It also means that nobody reported as 99th percentile is excluded for that criterion (grades or reading level may do so).

The 99th national percentile RIT scores from the 2020 norms (this will change next year with the 5-year NWEA cycle) for Fall 5th grade MAP are:

MAP-M: 244
MAP-R: 243

Of course, for higher-FARMS tranches, the 85th locally normed percentile would be expected to be at a lower RIT/national percentile. However, this is not guaranteed to be the case.

"Unless your school submitted..." OP, this is what was said earlier by a poster saying Administrators "do somethng" (do not send certain student' names for consideration for a magnet). CO will say school didnt do something and schools will say it is handled by CO. It is not just "scores and grades!!!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCCAPS runs the data collection and lottery process. That goes for criteria-based magnets (CES, Math/Science/CS MS @ Takoma Park & Roberto Clemente, Humanities MS @ Eastern & King) as well as interest-based magnets (e.g., Middle School Magnet Consortium -- Parkland, Loiederman & Argyle). High school consortia, too. DCCAPS is the point of contact for information/questions, including those about individual cases where criteria may or may not have been met.

AEI and curricular offices help define criteria-based magnet programs, and they (and upper management) work with DCCAPS to identify criteria/selection methodologies (current lottery system). The implementing schools have their own approaches to managing the curriculum and placed population.

Unless your school reported incorrect information to central for DCCAPS' use in the central identification process, they likely had nothing to do with any error. Please consider that when communicating with them.

The only MAP scores at which one can be comfortably sure of qualification are those at/above the 99th percentile nationally, as the algorithm used to identify the locally normed 85th percentile starts with that 99th national percentile, identifies the associated RIT score and compares that to the scores of the population of students in each FARMS tranche. If that score or higher was achieved by 15 or more percent of that population, then they adopt that as the locally normed 85th percentile. If not, they move down one national percentile, taking that RIT score and identifying whether 15 or more percent of that FARMS-tranche population achieved at least that score. This is repeated until the condition is true, at which point that national percentile/RIT score becomes the locally normed 85th percentile for the year for that tranche.

That can mean slightly more than 15 percent of MAP scores qualify, but it also means that anyone from the same FARMS tranche assigned the same national percentile on the MAP report is treated similarly from the perspective of lottery inclusion. It also means that nobody reported as 99th percentile is excluded for that criterion (grades or reading level may do so).

The 99th national percentile RIT scores from the 2020 norms (this will change next year with the 5-year NWEA cycle) for Fall 5th grade MAP are:

MAP-M: 244
MAP-R: 243

Of course, for higher-FARMS tranches, the 85th locally normed percentile would be expected to be at a lower RIT/national percentile. However, this is not guaranteed to be the case.

There it is, so what is guaranteed to be the case, MCPS?? Students who meet whatever "criteria" are not even placed into the pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCCAPS runs the data collection and lottery process. That goes for criteria-based magnets (CES, Math/Science/CS MS @ Takoma Park & Roberto Clemente, Humanities MS @ Eastern & King) as well as interest-based magnets (e.g., Middle School Magnet Consortium -- Parkland, Loiederman & Argyle). High school consortia, too. DCCAPS is the point of contact for information/questions, including those about individual cases where criteria may or may not have been met.

AEI and curricular offices help define criteria-based magnet programs, and they (and upper management) work with DCCAPS to identify criteria/selection methodologies (current lottery system). The implementing schools have their own approaches to managing the curriculum and placed population.

Unless your school reported incorrect information to central for DCCAPS' use in the central identification process, they likely had nothing to do with any error. Please consider that when communicating with them.

The only MAP scores at which one can be comfortably sure of qualification are those at/above the 99th percentile nationally, as the algorithm used to identify the locally normed 85th percentile starts with that 99th national percentile, identifies the associated RIT score and compares that to the scores of the population of students in each FARMS tranche. If that score or higher was achieved by 15 or more percent of that population, then they adopt that as the locally normed 85th percentile. If not, they move down one national percentile, taking that RIT score and identifying whether 15 or more percent of that FARMS-tranche population achieved at least that score. This is repeated until the condition is true, at which point that national percentile/RIT score becomes the locally normed 85th percentile for the year for that tranche.

That can mean slightly more than 15 percent of MAP scores qualify, but it also means that anyone from the same FARMS tranche assigned the same national percentile on the MAP report is treated similarly from the perspective of lottery inclusion. It also means that nobody reported as 99th percentile is excluded for that criterion (grades or reading level may do so).

The 99th national percentile RIT scores from the 2020 norms (this will change next year with the 5-year NWEA cycle) for Fall 5th grade MAP are:

MAP-M: 244
MAP-R: 243

Of course, for higher-FARMS tranches, the 85th locally normed percentile would be expected to be at a lower RIT/national percentile. However, this is not guaranteed to be the case.

There it is, so what is guaranteed to be the case, MCPS?? Students who meet whatever "criteria" are not even placed into the pool.

It’s hard to know that if as PP notes, the criteria shift by school. My kid in a low FARMs school was 99.9 percent in one category and 96 in another. Placed in pool for the 99.9 category but not the 96. Makes sense under PP’s list of criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCCAPS runs the data collection and lottery process. That goes for criteria-based magnets (CES, Math/Science/CS MS @ Takoma Park & Roberto Clemente, Humanities MS @ Eastern & King) as well as interest-based magnets (e.g., Middle School Magnet Consortium -- Parkland, Loiederman & Argyle). High school consortia, too. DCCAPS is the point of contact for information/questions, including those about individual cases where criteria may or may not have been met.

AEI and curricular offices help define criteria-based magnet programs, and they (and upper management) work with DCCAPS to identify criteria/selection methodologies (current lottery system). The implementing schools have their own approaches to managing the curriculum and placed population.

Unless your school reported incorrect information to central for DCCAPS' use in the central identification process, they likely had nothing to do with any error. Please consider that when communicating with them.

The only MAP scores at which one can be comfortably sure of qualification are those at/above the 99th percentile nationally, as the algorithm used to identify the locally normed 85th percentile starts with that 99th national percentile, identifies the associated RIT score and compares that to the scores of the population of students in each FARMS tranche. If that score or higher was achieved by 15 or more percent of that population, then they adopt that as the locally normed 85th percentile. If not, they move down one national percentile, taking that RIT score and identifying whether 15 or more percent of that FARMS-tranche population achieved at least that score. This is repeated until the condition is true, at which point that national percentile/RIT score becomes the locally normed 85th percentile for the year for that tranche.

That can mean slightly more than 15 percent of MAP scores qualify, but it also means that anyone from the same FARMS tranche assigned the same national percentile on the MAP report is treated similarly from the perspective of lottery inclusion. It also means that nobody reported as 99th percentile is excluded for that criterion (grades or reading level may do so).

The 99th national percentile RIT scores from the 2020 norms (this will change next year with the 5-year NWEA cycle) for Fall 5th grade MAP are:

MAP-M: 244
MAP-R: 243

Of course, for higher-FARMS tranches, the 85th locally normed percentile would be expected to be at a lower RIT/national percentile. However, this is not guaranteed to be the case.

There it is, so what is guaranteed to be the case, MCPS?? Students who meet whatever "criteria" are not even placed into the pool.

It’s hard to know that if as PP notes, the criteria shift by school. My kid in a low FARMs school was 99.9 percent in one category and 96 in another. Placed in pool for the 99.9 category but not the 96. Makes sense under PP’s list of criteria.

It is NOT based on % by schools + grades ONLY. It is based on "non guaranteed" factors which as in usual school district style is NOT transparent. Students who have met % for their school/local have NOT been placed in the pool. Why, MCPS, why??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCCAPS doesn't run the merit-based middle school nmagnets.

They run the pure lottery magnets.

What? DCCAPS runs both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As you don’t know what the minimum MAP-R score was, you do not know whether they meet the criteria or not. From past experience, all the parents I know that raged at MCPS for leaving their kid out of the pool find that they did not, in fact, met the criteria.

Of course if they did make a mistake they will be added to the pool for any waitlist places, but that’s unlikely.

My child’s score was well above the stated minimum.

There is no "stated minimum.". They don't publish what the different MAP score cutoffs are for each school grouping. If you're saying "I saw the words 85th percentile and assumed that means that if my child is well above the national/district-wide 85th percentile then they made the cutoff," you are incorrect. In some cases the cutoff is far above the 85th percentile and in others it's far below.

I am confident my child meets the cutoff. Period.

You’re guessing then. So do you want to share her stats if you’re so confident?

Nope, not guessing and not sharing “stats”. The intent of my thread isn’t to prove to you that my kid is eligible, it is to determine what can be done to address the error. I have submitted an appeal form and will be calling the central office tomorrow.

You are definitely guessing because there is no other way for you to “know”. I look forward to your reporting back here tomorrow. They will explain to you very quickly on the phone tomorrow what happened and why you child did not in fact qualify and you can withdraw your appeal.

Since they didn't get a spot, they have a canned message ready to go to tell pissed off families. OP, if you do contact CO, do share what they say. Bet it's same bs.

No, they will look at the MAP score and will explain that OP’s kid’s 96% national score translates to 81% locally and didn’t make the cut. OP will be embarrassed and apologize and then fail to come back and update this thread. This scenario (without the posting any of this here) is what has transpired for several people I know.

[Anonymous]

I don't know if the OP will come back to update, but a heads up that they used the home school, not the CES school, when determining the peer cohort. This becomes relevant when the home school has a dramatically different poverty rate than the CES school, like Woodlin or Sligo Creek and Oak View for example..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if the OP will come back to update, but a heads up that they used the home school, not the CES school, when determining the peer cohort. This becomes relevant when the home school has a dramatically different poverty rate than the CES school, like Woodlin or Sligo Creek and Oak View for example..

Yes, which also means kids in the same class will have different criteria to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if the OP will come back to update, but a heads up that they used the home school, not the CES school, when determining the peer cohort. This becomes relevant when the home school has a dramatically different poverty rate than the CES school, like Woodlin or Sligo Creek and Oak View for example..

Yes, which also means kids in the same class will have different criteria to get in.

Which is seriously so messed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCCAPS runs the data collection and lottery process. That goes for criteria-based magnets (CES, Math/Science/CS MS @ Takoma Park & Roberto Clemente, Humanities MS @ Eastern & King) as well as interest-based magnets (e.g., Middle School Magnet Consortium -- Parkland, Loiederman & Argyle). High school consortia, too. DCCAPS is the point of contact for information/questions, including those about individual cases where criteria may or may not have been met.

AEI and curricular offices help define criteria-based magnet programs, and they (and upper management) work with DCCAPS to identify criteria/selection methodologies (current lottery system). The implementing schools have their own approaches to managing the curriculum and placed population.

Unless your school reported incorrect information to central for DCCAPS' use in the central identification process, they likely had nothing to do with any error. Please consider that when communicating with them.

The only MAP scores at which one can be comfortably sure of qualification are those at/above the 99th percentile nationally, as the algorithm used to identify the locally normed 85th percentile starts with that 99th national percentile, identifies the associated RIT score and compares that to the scores of the population of students in each FARMS tranche. If that score or higher was achieved by 15 or more percent of that population, then they adopt that as the locally normed 85th percentile. If not, they move down one national percentile, taking that RIT score and identifying whether 15 or more percent of that FARMS-tranche population achieved at least that score. This is repeated until the condition is true, at which point that national percentile/RIT score becomes the locally normed 85th percentile for the year for that tranche.

That can mean slightly more than 15 percent of MAP scores qualify, but it also means that anyone from the same FARMS tranche assigned the same national percentile on the MAP report is treated similarly from the perspective of lottery inclusion. It also means that nobody reported as 99th percentile is excluded for that criterion (grades or reading level may do so).

The 99th national percentile RIT scores from the 2020 norms (this will change next year with the 5-year NWEA cycle) for Fall 5th grade MAP are:

MAP-M: 244
MAP-R: 243

Of course, for higher-FARMS tranches, the 85th locally normed percentile would be expected to be at a lower RIT/national percentile. However, this is not guaranteed to be the case.

"Unless your school submitted..." OP, this is what was said earlier by a poster saying Administrators "do somethng" (do not send certain student' names for consideration for a magnet). CO will say school didnt do something and schools will say it is handled by CO. It is not just "scores and grades!!!"

The scores and grades are the things that the schools submit. If, for example, there was a corrected grade and the school did not submit/report that, then that would be something on the school.