Why don't parents demand that schools do something about disruptive students?

[Anonymous]

We don't know what's going on, so I wouldn't have a clue what to say to the administration. I'm not afraid to speak up, but I'm in the dark of what OP is talking about.

It's rare for our kids to share behavioral episodes they witness at school. (Public school parent.)

[Anonymous]

Public school teaches already have a hard enough job managing 25+ kids and all the SN paperwork. It’s ridiculous to expect them to manage disruptive kids on top of that.

People knock private school teachers for being unlicensed and paid less. But if you have a 20% less qualified teacher with 50% less stress than a public school teacher, that teacher will still be better overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your admin sucks (many do) your laws (our laws) suck. But to pawn this off on the parents “do something!” because of “negative branding” -seriously?? How about the teachers band together, make demands, and walk off? I don’t know about your school district but ours is constantly looking for teachers, and they fight over teachers. I believe you could be powerful negotiators.

As a parent, what am I supposed to do? I’m not there. I have no facts. It’s all second hand hearsay. You said it yourself, parents wouldn’t be told any information or any facts! A PTA can’t even get the names of the parents OR kids in a kids’ class, unless every parent signs a privacy waiver.

It's illegal for teachers to strike in MD. Many just work to their contract but then parents get pissed. It's a vicious circle.

If teachers were just honest during IEP meetings and due process complaints, the legal process would force schools to provide more resources to special education.

More resources??? They shouldn’t be either the NT kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your admin sucks (many do) your laws (our laws) suck. But to pawn this off on the parents “do something!” because of “negative branding” -seriously?? How about the teachers band together, make demands, and walk off? I don’t know about your school district but ours is constantly looking for teachers, and they fight over teachers. I believe you could be powerful negotiators.

As a parent, what am I supposed to do? I’m not there. I have no facts. It’s all second hand hearsay. You said it yourself, parents wouldn’t be told any information or any facts! A PTA can’t even get the names of the parents OR kids in a kids’ class, unless every parent signs a privacy waiver.

It's illegal for teachers to strike in MD. Many just work to their contract but then parents get pissed. It's a vicious circle.

If teachers were just honest during IEP meetings and due process complaints, the legal process would force schools to provide more resources to special education.

More resources??? They shouldn’t be either the NT kids.

what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

What was the root or the difficulties?

At 19 (so after barely graduating from HS) I was diagnosed with a slew of severe learning disabilities, which teachers and APs denied I could possibly have because I had a smart older brother and I liked to read books. But I remember as early as 2nd grade being confused in math, in 3rd grade being confused by parts of a flower and what that had to do with reproduction, and literally not learning anything at all from 4th through 7th. And on and on. Apparently I also had ADD as early as 2nd grade, but the only suggestion for that was Ritalin which my parents refused to put me on, so I just got punished repeatedly both at home and school for behaviors I couldn't control.

[Anonymous]

This is some of what is happening:
1) Students with Specific Learning Disabilities, ADHD, and other milder disabilities who were not close to grade level would spend most of the time in a special education classroom where they could get help. They were getting work at their level and got breaks when they needed them, got instructions repeated, and could participate because there weren't many students in the class. They didn't get upset or become disruptive because they could feel successful. Granted some of these classrooms were not good and the teachers didn't have high expectations but some were absolutely amazing. The kids were much happier because they could do work and didn't feel like they were the only student struggling. The inclusion movement strongly believes these kids shouldn't be pulled out but should be getting help in their general ed. classrooms so instead of getting pulled out of class special ed. teachers and aids enter the classroom and give them some help.

This is no where near efficient. Instead of getting help for the majority of the day or getting pulled out for two or three hours you sit in a class that is way too hard all day. Picture being a student who can't tell time and can't read the board to find out what they are doing that day. They can't read a worksheet or even come close to doing grade level math. So instead many of these students act out.

2) Students used to be suspended either in school or out of school. Black and hispanic students had a higher suspension rate. So the federal government said that school district would be sanctioned if this continued. So district stopped suspending anyone. Then at the same time people started pushing "restorative justice," which however will intentioned, has meant there is are very few consequences. Students are supposed to talk it out.

People claim suspension doesn't do anything for the kid getting suspended. Well let me tell you absolutely does help the school community. This is parents get a wake up call their kids is in trouble and will also discipline their child at home and give consequences because they have to stay at home with them or go to a meeting at the school.

Even if parents do nothing suspension is great because the teacher gets a break from the disruptive student so other kids in class can learn. Other students who are followers also benefit some because they realize there are consequences. Once other students also realize the first kid who gets in trouble has no consequences then they decide they will also misbehave because it is more exciting to disruptive school and they get more respect from peers.

3. Students who were classified as having emotional disorders were placed in small restrictive classrooms where if they lost control and tried to destroy the classroom, hit a teacher, throw heavy things, or run out of the classroom into another classroom to destroy things were restrained or place in a small calm down room.

There were indeed abuses of the calm down room and restraining kids so now the pendulum has swung to no more calm down rooms or restraining students. Students are allowed to wander all over the school going in and out of classrooms, can get up in a classroom and tear down everything on the walls, push over bookcase and other furniture, throw things in the classroom, etc. Staff members are NOT allowed to restrain them or take them to a calm down room. They are supposed to wait them out then if the staff member gets attacked they are supposed to block the blows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

They were entitled to that when we were growing up too (Gen X/Y), but the schools weren’t overrun with feral room-clearing, wildly disruptive behavior cases NEARLY to the degree they are now. Absolutely no comparison. So clearly something’s changed, and not for the better.

It is better for kids with special needs who otherwise would have been warehoused and forgotten about.

And screw the majority of kids. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

They were entitled to that when we were growing up too (Gen X/Y), but the schools weren’t overrun with feral room-clearing, wildly disruptive behavior cases NEARLY to the degree they are now. Absolutely no comparison. So clearly something’s changed, and not for the better.

It is better for kids with special needs who otherwise would have been warehoused and forgotten about.

And screw the majority of kids. Got it.

It wouldn't if people were willing to pay for appropriate education for all. But they seem to be willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

What was the root or the difficulties?

At 19 (so after barely graduating from HS) I was diagnosed with a slew of severe learning disabilities, which teachers and APs denied I could possibly have because I had a smart older brother and I liked to read books. But I remember as early as 2nd grade being confused in math, in 3rd grade being confused by parts of a flower and what that had to do with reproduction, and literally not learning anything at all from 4th through 7th. And on and on. Apparently I also had ADD as early as 2nd grade, but the only suggestion for that was Ritalin which my parents refused to put me on, so I just got punished repeatedly both at home and school for behaviors I couldn't control.

I’m so sorry. This sound so hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools are not made to assist with behavior issues. Schools are made to teach academics. Most of the disruptive kids need a doctor, not a teacher. Yes, as a teacher, you need to build a relationship. I am a teacher. That relationship is NOT that of a friend. They are not my peer. It is an authoritative relationship. You are a child and I am in charge when you are here in my classroom. A teacher runs the classroom, admin runs the school. It’s stupid to send a disruptive child in class to admin. They have other stuff to deal with. You deal with that child. How do I deal with it? It’s not in school suspension. That’s a glorified time out that does not address the issue that the child has. I document everything. Every student that disrupts, I call the parents on my phone and then follow up with an email to go over the phone call. Your job will get interrupted just as much as your child interrupts me. Your child will get to special services because I will word the shit out of your child’s problems. “Billy walks out of class.” No…. “Billy creates an unsafe environment for himself when he elopes m. Use triggering words. These children do not get extra credit. They do not get a redo. They do not get made up work. They fail. My job is to teach. I love teaching. My job is not to parent or be any child’s doctor.

Haha, those parents aren’t taking your call or reading your emails. We need after school detention where they have to traipse down to pick up their vagrant. That get their attention.

[Anonymous]

I agree 100%. It’s getting out of control and teachers are quitting. The ONLY way things will change is for parents to sue. The “least restrictive environment” law and other laws for children with disabilities is being used to justify students with massive behavioral problems taking up 90% of teachers’ time and our kids suffer. We need parents who are lawyers to sue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

What was the root or the difficulties?

At 19 (so after barely graduating from HS) I was diagnosed with a slew of severe learning disabilities, which teachers and APs denied I could possibly have because I had a smart older brother and I liked to read books. But I remember as early as 2nd grade being confused in math, in 3rd grade being confused by parts of a flower and what that had to do with reproduction, and literally not learning anything at all from 4th through 7th. And on and on. Apparently I also had ADD as early as 2nd grade, but the only suggestion for that was Ritalin which my parents refused to put me on, so I just got punished repeatedly both at home and school for behaviors I couldn't control.

I’m so sorry. This sound so hard.

Thanks. It was. It still is. Every single day I bump up against things I know I should understand or be able to do and don't or can't. To say I'm the black sheep of my family is a vast understatement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree 100%. It’s getting out of control and teachers are quitting. The ONLY way things will change is for parents to sue. The “least restrictive environment” law and other laws for children with disabilities is being used to justify students with massive behavioral problems taking up 90% of teachers’ time and our kids suffer. We need parents who are lawyers to sue.

Suing isn't going to help your cause when the law isn't on your side. You should be lobbying for better special education services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is some of what is happening:
1) Students with Specific Learning Disabilities, ADHD, and other milder disabilities who were not close to grade level would spend most of the time in a special education classroom where they could get help. They were getting work at their level and got breaks when they needed them, got instructions repeated, and could participate because there weren't many students in the class. They didn't get upset or become disruptive because they could feel successful. Granted some of these classrooms were not good and the teachers didn't have high expectations but some were absolutely amazing. The kids were much happier because they could do work and didn't feel like they were the only student struggling. The inclusion movement strongly believes these kids shouldn't be pulled out but should be getting help in their general ed. classrooms so instead of getting pulled out of class special ed. teachers and aids enter the classroom and give them some help.

This is no where near efficient. Instead of getting help for the majority of the day or getting pulled out for two or three hours you sit in a class that is way too hard all day. Picture being a student who can't tell time and can't read the board to find out what they are doing that day. They can't read a worksheet or even come close to doing grade level math. So instead many of these students act out.

2) Students used to be suspended either in school or out of school. Black and hispanic students had a higher suspension rate. So the federal government said that school district would be sanctioned if this continued. So district stopped suspending anyone. Then at the same time people started pushing "restorative justice," which however will intentioned, has meant there is are very few consequences. Students are supposed to talk it out.

People claim suspension doesn't do anything for the kid getting suspended. Well let me tell you absolutely does help the school community. This is parents get a wake up call their kids is in trouble and will also discipline their child at home and give consequences because they have to stay at home with them or go to a meeting at the school.

Even if parents do nothing suspension is great because the teacher gets a break from the disruptive student so other kids in class can learn. Other students who are followers also benefit some because they realize there are consequences. Once other students also realize the first kid who gets in trouble has no consequences then they decide they will also misbehave because it is more exciting to disruptive school and they get more respect from peers.

3. Students who were classified as having emotional disorders were placed in small restrictive classrooms where if they lost control and tried to destroy the classroom, hit a teacher, throw heavy things, or run out of the classroom into another classroom to destroy things were restrained or place in a small calm down room.

There were indeed abuses of the calm down room and restraining kids so now the pendulum has swung to no more calm down rooms or restraining students. Students are allowed to wander all over the school going in and out of classrooms, can get up in a classroom and tear down everything on the walls, push over bookcase and other furniture, throw things in the classroom, etc. Staff members are NOT allowed to restrain them or take them to a calm down room. They are supposed to wait them out then if the staff member gets attacked they are supposed to block the blows.

Nailed it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

So what? It was better for the majority. Why should the majority suffer because some kids can't control themselves?