Why don't parents demand that schools do something about disruptive students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools are not made to assist with behavior issues. Schools are made to teach academics. Most of the disruptive kids need a doctor, not a teacher. Yes, as a teacher, you need to build a relationship. I am a teacher. That relationship is NOT that of a friend. They are not my peer. It is an authoritative relationship. You are a child and I am in charge when you are here in my classroom. A teacher runs the classroom, admin runs the school. It’s stupid to send a disruptive child in class to admin. They have other stuff to deal with. You deal with that child. How do I deal with it? It’s not in school suspension. That’s a glorified time out that does not address the issue that the child has. I document everything. Every student that disrupts, I call the parents on my phone and then follow up with an email to go over the phone call. Your job will get interrupted just as much as your child interrupts me. Your child will get to special services because I will word the shit out of your child’s problems. “Billy walks out of class.” No…. “Billy creates an unsafe environment for himself when he elopes m. Use triggering words. These children do not get extra credit. They do not get a redo. They do not get made up work. They fail. My job is to teach. I love teaching. My job is not to parent or be any child’s doctor.

Why do I feel like this post was written by admin and not a teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

Isn't ISS considered to be denying FAPE, or something, for kids with an IEP?

OP here. Most schools don't have ISS at all. I really didn't have special ed kids in mind when I started this post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

So what? It was better for the majority. Why should the majority suffer because some kids can't control themselves?

Whatever happened to you that you can be so callous?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

So what? It was better for the majority. Why should the majority suffer because some kids can't control themselves?

Yours are the kind of words that drive people to attempt suicide. You should watch what you say. Dismissing people as not worthwhile is evil.

“I get that you hurt. But putting everyone in the same classroom means the teacher is the babysitter for everyone. Equalizing means everyone has your experience. We shouldn’t allow anyone to have your experience, not everyone.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree 100%. It’s getting out of control and teachers are quitting. The ONLY way things will change is for parents to sue. The “least restrictive environment” law and other laws for children with disabilities is being used to justify students with massive behavioral problems taking up 90% of teachers’ time and our kids suffer. We need parents who are lawyers to sue.

Eliminating the Department of Education will safe billions of our taxpayers cash, no? Suing won’t be necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why there isn't a huge movement for school's to start actually adressing disruptive student behavior. As it is currently, it is extremely difficult for a teacher to do anything about a kids who won't shut the f**k up. If we send them to the office, administration gets pissy because it puts more work on them and they feel like it's something the teachers should deal with. The philosophy is that teachers are supposed to "build a relationship" with students, and if a student doesn't behave, the teacher is at fault.

There is so much misbehavior we have to tolerate and it seriously diminishes the learning environment for everyone. A shocking number of schools don't even offer In School Suspension anymore.

As a middle school teacher, I'm begging you parents, please start complaining about disruptive behaviors.
Contact your school board, ask them to bring back ISS, and not make teachers jump through all kinds of hoops to send some out of control kid out of the room to calm down till they are ready to come back and behave.
We teachers can't make this demand ourselves or else we get negatively branded. We are supposed to be all in for "restorative justice". The pressure will need to come from outside.

Because they would get cancelled and labelled as racists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree 100%. It’s getting out of control and teachers are quitting. The ONLY way things will change is for parents to sue. The “least restrictive environment” law and other laws for children with disabilities is being used to justify students with massive behavioral problems taking up 90% of teachers’ time and our kids suffer. We need parents who are lawyers to sue.

Eliminating the Department of Education will safe billions of our taxpayers cash, no? Suing won’t be necessary.

Then you'll really see what that wild will West was like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is some of what is happening:
1) Students with Specific Learning Disabilities, ADHD, and other milder disabilities who were not close to grade level would spend most of the time in a special education classroom where they could get help. They were getting work at their level and got breaks when they needed them, got instructions repeated, and could participate because there weren't many students in the class. They didn't get upset or become disruptive because they could feel successful. Granted some of these classrooms were not good and the teachers didn't have high expectations but some were absolutely amazing. The kids were much happier because they could do work and didn't feel like they were the only student struggling. The inclusion movement strongly believes these kids shouldn't be pulled out but should be getting help in their general ed. classrooms so instead of getting pulled out of class special ed. teachers and aids enter the classroom and give them some help.

This is no where near efficient. Instead of getting help for the majority of the day or getting pulled out for two or three hours you sit in a class that is way too hard all day. Picture being a student who can't tell time and can't read the board to find out what they are doing that day. They can't read a worksheet or even come close to doing grade level math. So instead many of these students act out.

2) Students used to be suspended either in school or out of school. Black and hispanic students had a higher suspension rate. So the federal government said that school district would be sanctioned if this continued. So district stopped suspending anyone. Then at the same time people started pushing "restorative justice," which however will intentioned, has meant there is are very few consequences. Students are supposed to talk it out.

People claim suspension doesn't do anything for the kid getting suspended. Well let me tell you absolutely does help the school community. This is parents get a wake up call their kids is in trouble and will also discipline their child at home and give consequences because they have to stay at home with them or go to a meeting at the school.

Even if parents do nothing suspension is great because the teacher gets a break from the disruptive student so other kids in class can learn. Other students who are followers also benefit some because they realize there are consequences. Once other students also realize the first kid who gets in trouble has no consequences then they decide they will also misbehave because it is more exciting to disruptive school and they get more respect from peers.

3. Students who were classified as having emotional disorders were placed in small restrictive classrooms where if they lost control and tried to destroy the classroom, hit a teacher, throw heavy things, or run out of the classroom into another classroom to destroy things were restrained or place in a small calm down room.

There were indeed abuses of the calm down room and restraining kids so now the pendulum has swung to no more calm down rooms or restraining students. Students are allowed to wander all over the school going in and out of classrooms, can get up in a classroom and tear down everything on the walls, push over bookcase and other furniture, throw things in the classroom, etc. Staff members are NOT allowed to restrain them or take them to a calm down room. They are supposed to wait them out then if the staff member gets attacked they are supposed to block the blows.

This. A combination of bad policies and legitimate reactions to the terrible situations out there for 3 has led us to where we are.

That and stupid, stupid parenting "gurus" like Dr. Becky.

[Anonymous]

Omg we do complain. We had and still have a kid who is violent and disruptive and throws chairs. DDs classroom was evacuated multiple times. The kid is ok like 90% of the time. But the rest is awful and he needs a lot of behavior help. I've complained and other parents have too. Admin can't do anything. He is no white which makes it even harder. But 25 kids are losing out on educational time because of him multiple times a month. And he's not the only one. Just the worst behavior wise that I've seen. This is in ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, It’s telling how most parents don’t have the energy to make this a priority. If only they knew what’s going on. They don’t deserve outstanding teachers like you.

This is part of the issue. Parents often don’t know what’s happening in the classroom. Teachers aren’t allowed to share information and the administration certainly doesn’t share either. How are they supposed to act on information they don’t have?

We do know. Our kids tell us. Oh Erica smashed everyone’s pottery or Jacob hit the teacher and threw a chair at her. We know the parents of the sped kid will sue so there is nothing we can do. They can mover everyone out of the nightmare kids’ class. My kid has an iep. He has to he in the sped class.

For the parents of the kids who are reliable and communicative, this. We know. We just know that the schools are in a bind and the legal process is a mess because of the real abuses that have happened in the past and parents who will work the protective system (rightly or wrongly, I'm not judging). So we do what we can to protect our own kids, but we don't expect more. It's just not happening.

In our case what we could do was eventually move to private, where there is no FAPE requirement.

[Anonymous]

I have told my daughter to make sure she works hard to take the specialized programs like IB or something else. I told her to take a bunch of AP's to stay away from those kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

So what? It was better for the majority. Why should the majority suffer because some kids can't control themselves?

Whatever happened to you that you can be so callous?

I teach middle schoolers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have told my daughter to make sure she works hard to take the specialized programs like IB or something else. I told her to take a bunch of AP's to stay away from those kids.

As a teacher, I would say this is good advice.
Personally, I would have homeschooled my own kids if they hadn’t gotten into the advanced classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

So what? It was better for the majority. Why should the majority suffer because some kids can't control themselves?

Whatever happened to you that you can be so callous?

I teach middle schoolers.

How dysfunctional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

They were entitled to that when we were growing up too (Gen X/Y), but the schools weren’t overrun with feral room-clearing, wildly disruptive behavior cases NEARLY to the degree they are now. Absolutely no comparison. So clearly something’s changed, and not for the better.

It is better for kids with special needs who otherwise would have been warehoused and forgotten about.

And screw the majority of kids. Got it.

It wouldn't if people were willing to pay for appropriate education for all. But they seem to be willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.

It wouldn’t matter. Parents would still demand (incorrectly) that LRE = GenEd. Nothing will change until the schools stop kowtowing to those parents and start placing the kids appropriately.