Why don't parents demand that schools do something about disruptive students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

So what? It was better for the majority. Why should the majority suffer because some kids can't control themselves?

Whatever happened to you that you can be so callous?

They’re correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

So what? It was better for the majority. Why should the majority suffer because some kids can't control themselves?

Whatever happened to you that you can be so callous?

I teach middle schoolers.

+1. Middle school is where the rubber meets the road. Some of the behaviors are really dangerous and the kids are often bigger and stronger than the adults who are in charge. A shooting or violence threat from a 14 year old is a lot more likely to be credible than a threat from a 7 year old although neither should be dismissed. Teachers are expected to teach content to mastery and the pacing makes it very hard to stay on track if you have to evacuate a classroom of 29 students because one is making threats or trying to fight a classmate or even if you have to stop every few minutes and redirect the kid who won't stop making disruptive or sexually inappropriate comments. The other kids who are genuinely trying to learn and willing to do their work shouldn't have to put up with that day after day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

They were entitled to that when we were growing up too (Gen X/Y), but the schools weren’t overrun with feral room-clearing, wildly disruptive behavior cases NEARLY to the degree they are now. Absolutely no comparison. So clearly something’s changed, and not for the better.

It is better for kids with special needs who otherwise would have been warehoused and forgotten about.

And screw the majority of kids. Got it.

It wouldn't if people were willing to pay for appropriate education for all. But they seem to be willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.

It wouldn’t matter. Parents would still demand (incorrectly) that LRE = GenEd. Nothing will change until the schools stop kowtowing to those parents and start placing the kids appropriately.

It often does mean GenEd+Supports. But schools don't to provide supports. Nor do they want to make their self-contained programs respectable. It's telling that the people in this thread complaining the loudest- including the teachers- haven't expressed any interest in improving the services to kids with special needs. They simply want to send them away and forget about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

So what? It was better for the majority. Why should the majority suffer because some kids can't control themselves?

Whatever happened to you that you can be so callous?

I teach middle schoolers.

+1. Middle school is where the rubber meets the road. Some of the behaviors are really dangerous and the kids are often bigger and stronger than the adults who are in charge. A shooting or violence threat from a 14 year old is a lot more likely to be credible than a threat from a 7 year old although neither should be dismissed. Teachers are expected to teach content to mastery and the pacing makes it very hard to stay on track if you have to evacuate a classroom of 29 students because one is making threats or trying to fight a classmate or even if you have to stop every few minutes and redirect the kid who won't stop making disruptive or sexually inappropriate comments. The other kids who are genuinely trying to learn and willing to do their work shouldn't have to put up with that day after day.

I understand it’s all hard but to dismiss someone and say that the one person doesn’t matter is a terrible. I would never tell a teacher that the teacher doesn’t matter. There are ways to express needs without provoking the kinds of thoughts that invite depression and suicide.

[Anonymous]

The parents do fight a more restrictive placement or don’t do anything to move the process along, especially if the disruptive kid is on grade level. Unfortunately, at least at our FCPS ES, the options are the mainstream classroom or the enhanced autism classroom aka self contained. To my knowledge, all the kids in the autism classroom also have intellectual disabilities or otherwise need a much slower pace of instruction. My older DS had a number of disruptive boys in his classes through the years and they were all on, or even a little above, grade level. So then the option is something like Burke School, and that is not exactly a welcoming or warm environment and a lot of parents don’t want that as a placement. It’s also $$$ for the schools to send kids there so it’s sort of a last resort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your admin sucks (many do) your laws (our laws) suck. But to pawn this off on the parents “do something!” because of “negative branding” -seriously?? How about the teachers band together, make demands, and walk off? I don’t know about your school district but ours is constantly looking for teachers, and they fight over teachers. I believe you could be powerful negotiators.

As a parent, what am I supposed to do? I’m not there. I have no facts. It’s all second hand hearsay. You said it yourself, parents wouldn’t be told any information or any facts! A PTA can’t even get the names of the parents OR kids in a kids’ class, unless every parent signs a privacy waiver.

This. I’m the parent of one of the disruptive kids. He has an IEP. He is medicated. We do many hours of therapy per week. I have an actual log of all the behavioral incidents the school has reported to me. I have pushed and pleaded to get more support for my kid. Not just for his benefit but so he doesn’t disrupt other kids’ education. I feel so awful for my son’s teacher. The demands on her are impossible. But I’ve done everything I can do for my son at this point. It’s a resources issue. The school just doesn’t have what they need, but I am not in a position to remedy that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because it’s public school. The nightmare disruptive kids who will never be productive citizens or even live on their own are entitled to a public school education. If we don’t like it, we can go private.

But schools used to send kids to ISS. There is no reason they can't still do it.

I was the screwed up kid and got sent to ISS a few times in middle school. It may have made the classroom calmer or whatever, but it didn't help me at all. Not socially, not academically, not emotionally. Nothing. I was given my assignments for the days I was there, and a different teacher babysat me each period.

So what? It was better for the majority. Why should the majority suffer because some kids can't control themselves?

Right, and I didn't learn. I graduated from high school, totally unaware that Alaska is connected to Canada, for example. I still can't calculate a tip. And on and on. I was pushed along and learned nearly nothing. I suffered too. Is that fair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why there isn't a huge movement for school's to start actually adressing disruptive student behavior. As it is currently, it is extremely difficult for a teacher to do anything about a kids who won't shut the f**k up. If we send them to the office, administration gets pissy because it puts more work on them and they feel like it's something the teachers should deal with. The philosophy is that teachers are supposed to "build a relationship" with students, and if a student doesn't behave, the teacher is at fault.

There is so much misbehavior we have to tolerate and it seriously diminishes the learning environment for everyone. A shocking number of schools don't even offer In School Suspension anymore.

As a middle school teacher, I'm begging you parents, please start complaining about disruptive behaviors.
Contact your school board, ask them to bring back ISS, and not make teachers jump through all kinds of hoops to send some out of control kid out of the room to calm down till they are ready to come back and behave.
We teachers can't make this demand ourselves or else we get negatively branded. We are supposed to be all in for "restorative justice". The pressure will need to come from outside.

Because they would get cancelled and labelled as racists.

This is the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are not made to assist with behavior issues. Schools are made to teach academics. Most of the disruptive kids need a doctor, not a teacher. Yes, as a teacher, you need to build a relationship. I am a teacher. That relationship is NOT that of a friend. They are not my peer. It is an authoritative relationship. You are a child and I am in charge when you are here in my classroom. A teacher runs the classroom, admin runs the school. It’s stupid to send a disruptive child in class to admin. They have other stuff to deal with. You deal with that child. How do I deal with it? It’s not in school suspension. That’s a glorified time out that does not address the issue that the child has. I document everything. Every student that disrupts, I call the parents on my phone and then follow up with an email to go over the phone call. Your job will get interrupted just as much as your child interrupts me. Your child will get to special services because I will word the shit out of your child’s problems. “Billy walks out of class.” No…. “Billy creates an unsafe environment for himself when he elopes m. Use triggering words. These children do not get extra credit. They do not get a redo. They do not get made up work. They fail. My job is to teach. I love teaching. My job is not to parent or be any child’s doctor.

Haha, those parents aren’t taking your call or reading your emails. We need after school detention where they have to traipse down to pick up their vagrant. That get their attention.

I don't disagree with you, but who will monitor the detention?

I like the teacher pp you quoted. I just wonder how that approach works when kids have redo's, extra time, and who knows what else written into IEP's. Teacher's have so few options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sure there are laws in place guaranteeing these children an education but the biggest reason is $$$$$. State and local governments, school boards, and taxpayers won't prioritize spending money on special education so there is not enough money to pay for good special education teachers and separate special education institutions.

Then maybe some of this shouldn't be a school responsibility. If Billy elopes, for example, due to xyz diagnosis, that should be health care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure there are laws in place guaranteeing these children an education but the biggest reason is $$$$$. State and local governments, school boards, and taxpayers won't prioritize spending money on special education so there is not enough money to pay for good special education teachers and separate special education institutions.

Then maybe some of this shouldn't be a school responsibility. If Billy elopes, for example, due to xyz diagnosis, that should be health care.

The health care system isn't set up to educate kids. They have a completely different role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure there are laws in place guaranteeing these children an education but the biggest reason is $$$$$. State and local governments, school boards, and taxpayers won't prioritize spending money on special education so there is not enough money to pay for good special education teachers and separate special education institutions.

Then maybe some of this shouldn't be a school responsibility. If Billy elopes, for example, due to xyz diagnosis, that should be health care.

The health care system isn't set up to educate kids. They have a completely different role.

The education system isn't set up to deal with mental health or behavior issues. They need councilors, psychologists and psychiatrists. Teachers are none of those. Lack of treatment makes a Teacher's job almost impossible in some cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why there isn't a huge movement for school's to start actually adressing disruptive student behavior. As it is currently, it is extremely difficult for a teacher to do anything about a kids who won't shut the f**k up. If we send them to the office, administration gets pissy because it puts more work on them and they feel like it's something the teachers should deal with. The philosophy is that teachers are supposed to "build a relationship" with students, and if a student doesn't behave, the teacher is at fault.

There is so much misbehavior we have to tolerate and it seriously diminishes the learning environment for everyone. A shocking number of schools don't even offer In School Suspension anymore.

As a middle school teacher, I'm begging you parents, please start complaining about disruptive behaviors.
Contact your school board, ask them to bring back ISS, and not make teachers jump through all kinds of hoops to send some out of control kid out of the room to calm down till they are ready to come back and behave.
We teachers can't make this demand ourselves or else we get negatively branded. We are supposed to be all in for "restorative justice". The pressure will need to come from outside.

Oh, believe me, I tried. When there were kids bullying my kid, throwing things at her, assaulting her in the hall and the bathroom, I complained. We got restorative justice where she was supposed to sit with the mean, disruptive kids and listen to them cry and forgive them. Then they would do it again. I complained. Nothing. We pulled her out because the school did nothing. No consequences, no protection. Nothing. You can tell parents to complain but it’s just not worth it if you have any other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand why there isn't a huge movement for school's to start actually adressing disruptive student behavior. As it is currently, it is extremely difficult for a teacher to do anything about a kids who won't shut the f**k up. If we send them to the office, administration gets pissy because it puts more work on them and they feel like it's something the teachers should deal with. The philosophy is that teachers are supposed to "build a relationship" with students, and if a student doesn't behave, the teacher is at fault.

There is so much misbehavior we have to tolerate and it seriously diminishes the learning environment for everyone. A shocking number of schools don't even offer In School Suspension anymore.

As a middle school teacher, I'm begging you parents, please start complaining about disruptive behaviors.
Contact your school board, ask them to bring back ISS, and not make teachers jump through all kinds of hoops to send some out of control kid out of the room to calm down till they are ready to come back and behave.
We teachers can't make this demand ourselves or else we get negatively branded. We are supposed to be all in for "restorative justice". The pressure will need to come from outside.

Because they would get cancelled and labelled as racists.

This is the answer.

Yes. Our middle school made a special wrist band for students that had fewer than three unexcused tardies/absences, no detentions, and no referrals to the bad behavior room (where students get sent by the teacher if they won’t stop being disruptive in class after several warnings). Students with this wrist band got extra privileges including going first in the lunch line. Parents were ANGRY. All the UMC white parents (which are a vocal minority at our school) cried it was unfair and not equitable (i.e. racist)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your admin sucks (many do) your laws (our laws) suck. But to pawn this off on the parents “do something!” because of “negative branding” -seriously?? How about the teachers band together, make demands, and walk off? I don’t know about your school district but ours is constantly looking for teachers, and they fight over teachers. I believe you could be powerful negotiators.

As a parent, what am I supposed to do? I’m not there. I have no facts. It’s all second hand hearsay. You said it yourself, parents wouldn’t be told any information or any facts! A PTA can’t even get the names of the parents OR kids in a kids’ class, unless every parent signs a privacy waiver.

This. I’m the parent of one of the disruptive kids. He has an IEP. He is medicated. We do many hours of therapy per week. I have an actual log of all the behavioral incidents the school has reported to me. I have pushed and pleaded to get more support for my kid. Not just for his benefit but so he doesn’t disrupt other kids’ education. I feel so awful for my son’s teacher. The demands on her are impossible. But I’ve done everything I can do for my son at this point. It’s a resources issue. The school just doesn’t have what they need, but I am not in a position to remedy that.

https://www.npr.org/2024/12/05/nx-s1-5213613/disabilities-special-education-students-staff

Society should not be paying for this. Teacher or teachers can't be expected to be babysitting crazy kids basically for free (for the parent) while risking their health. Parents should be footing part or all of the bill and it should not be in a normal school. It's sort of an ingenious scam-you offload non-academic personal issues onto schools and then call it a school-related issue so untrained teachers have to be psychologists and pin cushions. This is worse than being a prison guard. If there is no suitable alternative than mainstreaming, unfortunately these kids are better off not in school than threatening the health/lives of dozens of children and adults every day. The collateral damage is too much.