LLIV - how many of the kids in the class are principal placed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does principal placement work? Do you apply for it or send an email if you don't get into AAP or does the principal figure that out all on their own?

It depends on the school. Some people have said that the AART and Principal look at the kids who were considered for LIV automatically. For the most part it is a part of setting classes for the next year and many schools will say that they prefer parents to not askfor specific placement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does principal placement work? Do you apply for it or send an email if you don't get into AAP or does the principal figure that out all on their own?

It depends on the school. Some people have said that the AART and Principal look at the kids who were considered for LIV automatically. For the most part it is a part of setting classes for the next year and many schools will say that they prefer parents to not askfor specific placement.

If they don’t want parents to advocate, then they shouldn’t offer different curriculums

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the kids are Principal placed .Does that mean they are the same as Committee placed ? what makes the difference ?

Committee placed are kids selected by the committee. They have the option of attending the Center school or their base school. They are guaranteed LIV placement through 8th grade.

Principal placed kids are kids who are placed in the local LIV class by the Principal. They were not selected by the committee for LIV. They are not guaranteed a seat in the LLIV class, they can be removed at any time. They cannot take LIV classes in MS.

So effed up to track kids like this when they’re 6-8 years old. Committee wasn’t impressed with you when you were 7? Too bad, no advanced classes for you when you’re 13!

That is why parents can apply in later grades. I would expect that a kid who had been Principal Placed from 3rd grade on to apply for LIV status before MS. It isn’t that hard of a process, parents fill out a form. They can do more but they don’t have to.

Sure, they can fill out a form. They have no control over what some nameless, faceless centralized committee that doesn’t know their kid from Adam chooses to do.

Stop pretending that not allowing kids who can and should take advanced classes to actually take those classes is somehow fair, or just some parental failing.

The entire AAP system is a disaster.

Parents can apply every year, they are not locked out. Parents can choose Honors classes for kids in MS, they are not denied advanced classes.

AAP is not perfect, there is no such thing as a perfect system. There are options and plenty of kids take AP/IB class in HS having not taking LIV classes in ES/MS. Kids are taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade, which allows them to take Calculus as Seniors. Kids get into top schools with “Just Calculus.”

I am guessing that the people who see AAP as a disaster are parents whose kids were not placed and see it as a snub of some sort. There is far too much evidence of kids doing fine without AAP for me to take things seriously. The program is a mildly ahead and provides kids in it some more indepth/advanced work that prevents them from being overly bored. Other kids catch up to the AAP kids easily enough.

Are you the resident AAP apologist or something?

Explain to me the logic of not allowing some kids (who have all been in class together for years) to take Algebra I in 7th grade while other kids from that class to take it?

It’s also beyond condescending to offer virtual head pats to the parents of the kids left behind reassuring them that their kids will be “just fine”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the kids are Principal placed .Does that mean they are the same as Committee placed ? what makes the difference ?

Committee placed are kids selected by the committee. They have the option of attending the Center school or their base school. They are guaranteed LIV placement through 8th grade.

Principal placed kids are kids who are placed in the local LIV class by the Principal. They were not selected by the committee for LIV. They are not guaranteed a seat in the LLIV class, they can be removed at any time. They cannot take LIV classes in MS.

So effed up to track kids like this when they’re 6-8 years old. Committee wasn’t impressed with you when you were 7? Too bad, no advanced classes for you when you’re 13!

That is why parents can apply in later grades. I would expect that a kid who had been Principal Placed from 3rd grade on to apply for LIV status before MS. It isn’t that hard of a process, parents fill out a form. They can do more but they don’t have to.

Sure, they can fill out a form. They have no control over what some nameless, faceless centralized committee that doesn’t know their kid from Adam chooses to do.

Stop pretending that not allowing kids who can and should take advanced classes to actually take those classes is somehow fair, or just some parental failing.

The entire AAP system is a disaster.

Parents can apply every year, they are not locked out. Parents can choose Honors classes for kids in MS, they are not denied advanced classes.

AAP is not perfect, there is no such thing as a perfect system. There are options and plenty of kids take AP/IB class in HS having not taking LIV classes in ES/MS. Kids are taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade, which allows them to take Calculus as Seniors. Kids get into top schools with “Just Calculus.”

I am guessing that the people who see AAP as a disaster are parents whose kids were not placed and see it as a snub of some sort. There is far too much evidence of kids doing fine without AAP for me to take things seriously. The program is a mildly ahead and provides kids in it some more indepth/advanced work that prevents them from being overly bored. Other kids catch up to the AAP kids easily enough.

Are you the resident AAP apologist or something?

Explain to me the logic of not allowing some kids (who have all been in class together for years) to take Algebra I in 7th grade while other kids from that class to take it?

It’s also beyond condescending to offer virtual head pats to the parents of the kids left behind reassuring them that their kids will be “just fine”.

Every kid in advanced math takes the Iowas and has the same opportunity to take algebra in 7th as the aap kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the kids are Principal placed .Does that mean they are the same as Committee placed ? what makes the difference ?

Committee placed are kids selected by the committee. They have the option of attending the Center school or their base school. They are guaranteed LIV placement through 8th grade.

Principal placed kids are kids who are placed in the local LIV class by the Principal. They were not selected by the committee for LIV. They are not guaranteed a seat in the LLIV class, they can be removed at any time. They cannot take LIV classes in MS.

So effed up to track kids like this when they’re 6-8 years old. Committee wasn’t impressed with you when you were 7? Too bad, no advanced classes for you when you’re 13!

That is why parents can apply in later grades. I would expect that a kid who had been Principal Placed from 3rd grade on to apply for LIV status before MS. It isn’t that hard of a process, parents fill out a form. They can do more but they don’t have to.

Sure, they can fill out a form. They have no control over what some nameless, faceless centralized committee that doesn’t know their kid from Adam chooses to do.

Stop pretending that not allowing kids who can and should take advanced classes to actually take those classes is somehow fair, or just some parental failing.

The entire AAP system is a disaster.

Parents can apply every year, they are not locked out. Parents can choose Honors classes for kids in MS, they are not denied advanced classes.

AAP is not perfect, there is no such thing as a perfect system. There are options and plenty of kids take AP/IB class in HS having not taking LIV classes in ES/MS. Kids are taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade, which allows them to take Calculus as Seniors. Kids get into top schools with “Just Calculus.”

I am guessing that the people who see AAP as a disaster are parents whose kids were not placed and see it as a snub of some sort. There is far too much evidence of kids doing fine without AAP for me to take things seriously. The program is a mildly ahead and provides kids in it some more indepth/advanced work that prevents them from being overly bored. Other kids catch up to the AAP kids easily enough.

Are you the resident AAP apologist or something?

Explain to me the logic of not allowing some kids (who have all been in class together for years) to take Algebra I in 7th grade while other kids from that class to take it?

It’s also beyond condescending to offer virtual head pats to the parents of the kids left behind reassuring them that their kids will be “just fine”.

We deferred because the base school didn’t have LLIV and we did not want to move our kid. We did place them in LIV in MS and they are doing just fine.

Algebra 1 in 7th has nothing to do with LIV. Algebra 1 is determined by kids score on the IAAT and the SOL, score high enough and you can choose to take Algebra 1 in 7th, otherwise you take Math 7 H and then Algebra 1 H in 8th grade. All schools have Advanced Math as an option. About 1/3 of the kids at our base school were in Advanced Math, no LLIV remember, and a good number of those kids tested into Algebra 1 H. The logic is that kids who don’t score high enough on the two tests are most likely not prepared to take a HS math class in 7th grade. A very small percentage of kids across the country take Algebra 1 before 8th grade and a pretty large percentage of the country won’t take Algebra 1 until 9th grade. Kids who have Algebra 1 in 8th grade will take Calculus in 12th grade, that is more then on track.

The program works as well as it can. I would prefer that they had Advanced Math, Advanced LA, Advanced Science, and Advanced Social Studies so that kids can be in groups based on strengths across subjects but there seems to be resistance tot he idea of kids changing rooms and being placed with like abilities. That leaves us with the system that we have which is never going to meet everyones idea of “right.” Overall, I think it hits the mark with most of the kids. Some kids are a bad fit in AAP and some other kids could be a good fit. I am sorry that it isn’t perfect but what do you expect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the kids are Principal placed .Does that mean they are the same as Committee placed ? what makes the difference ?

Committee placed are kids selected by the committee. They have the option of attending the Center school or their base school. They are guaranteed LIV placement through 8th grade.

Principal placed kids are kids who are placed in the local LIV class by the Principal. They were not selected by the committee for LIV. They are not guaranteed a seat in the LLIV class, they can be removed at any time. They cannot take LIV classes in MS.

So effed up to track kids like this when they’re 6-8 years old. Committee wasn’t impressed with you when you were 7? Too bad, no advanced classes for you when you’re 13!

That is why parents can apply in later grades. I would expect that a kid who had been Principal Placed from 3rd grade on to apply for LIV status before MS. It isn’t that hard of a process, parents fill out a form. They can do more but they don’t have to.

Sure, they can fill out a form. They have no control over what some nameless, faceless centralized committee that doesn’t know their kid from Adam chooses to do.

Stop pretending that not allowing kids who can and should take advanced classes to actually take those classes is somehow fair, or just some parental failing.

The entire AAP system is a disaster.

Parents can apply every year, they are not locked out. Parents can choose Honors classes for kids in MS, they are not denied advanced classes.

AAP is not perfect, there is no such thing as a perfect system. There are options and plenty of kids take AP/IB class in HS having not taking LIV classes in ES/MS. Kids are taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade, which allows them to take Calculus as Seniors. Kids get into top schools with “Just Calculus.”

I am guessing that the people who see AAP as a disaster are parents whose kids were not placed and see it as a snub of some sort. There is far too much evidence of kids doing fine without AAP for me to take things seriously. The program is a mildly ahead and provides kids in it some more indepth/advanced work that prevents them from being overly bored. Other kids catch up to the AAP kids easily enough.

Are you the resident AAP apologist or something?

Explain to me the logic of not allowing some kids (who have all been in class together for years) to take Algebra I in 7th grade while other kids from that class to take it?

It’s also beyond condescending to offer virtual head pats to the parents of the kids left behind reassuring them that their kids will be “just fine”.

Every kid in advanced math takes the Iowas and has the same opportunity to take algebra in 7th as the aap kids.

+1
Committee-placed AAP kids don’t automatically get to take Algebra in 7th. They have to score pass advanced on the 7th grade math SOL in 6th and hit a certain score on the Iowa. Any kid taking advanced math in 6th - whether committee- or principal-placed in AAP L4 or just taking advanced math and not in L4 - would have the opportunity to take these tests and qualify. If you do, you can take Algebra in 7th, even if you’re not in AAP in middle school. It’s arguably one of the more objective, level playing fields. Not perfect, but it’s all relative in this very broken system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But does this mean that my child who didn't get in to AAP in 3rd just won't have a chance at getting in to the LLIV class unless they get in to AAP?

The Principal at your school might place your child in the LLIV classroom. You can apply for your child to be considered for LIV for the next grade level.

Advanced Math is what your child needs to have a chance to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade.

Either way, your child will be fine.

Advanced math is the most important. Our ES experience was that LLIV was 90% PTA moms getting their kids in. They were the ones pushing out for math while kids not in LLIV pushed in

This is 100% the case at my child's elementary school. There are two PTA co-chairs, and their kids are both in the LLIV class. There are several PTA board members and almost all of their children are also in the LLIV class. I know these kids, they're not any smarter or more advanced than my kids. They just have pushy moms.

[Anonymous]

Question: If my child didn't get into the LLIV class in 3rd, will they ever have the opportunity to take advanced math in the future, or are they destined for regular math for the rest of their school years?

[Anonymous]

It seems crazy to make a decision in 2nd grade as to a child's entire math track for the next 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Our school, no LLIV, started Advanced Math as a distinct class in 5th grade and kids were added in 6th grade.

Most of the kids in regular math took Algebra in 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems crazy to make a decision in 2nd grade as to a child's entire math track for the next 10 years.

Then it is great that they don’t!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question: If my child didn't get into the LLIV class in 3rd, will they ever have the opportunity to take advanced math in the future, or are they destined for regular math for the rest of their school years?

This was answered two posts prior and 12 hours earlier (answer is yes, they have the opportunity). Results from IAAT and the SOL determine when a student is ready/eligible to take Algebra, not class placement. If they are ready and begin taking Algebra in either 6th, 7th, or 8th grades then they are advanced (it's just different degrees of advanced).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: If my child didn't get into the LLIV class in 3rd, will they ever have the opportunity to take advanced math in the future, or are they destined for regular math for the rest of their school years?

This was answered two posts prior and 12 hours earlier (answer is yes, they have the opportunity). Results from IAAT and the SOL determine when a student is ready/eligible to take Algebra, not class placement. If they are ready and begin taking Algebra in either 6th, 7th, or 8th grades then they are advanced (it's just different degrees of advanced).

Only 6th graders in advanced math are eligible for to take the Iowas. If you don't get LLIV, push for advanced math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: If my child didn't get into the LLIV class in 3rd, will they ever have the opportunity to take advanced math in the future, or are they destined for regular math for the rest of their school years?

This was answered two posts prior and 12 hours earlier (answer is yes, they have the opportunity). Results from IAAT and the SOL determine when a student is ready/eligible to take Algebra, not class placement. If they are ready and begin taking Algebra in either 6th, 7th, or 8th grades then they are advanced (it's just different degrees of advanced).

Only 6th graders in advanced math are eligible for to take the Iowas. If you don't get LLIV, push for advanced math.

+ 1
Also, if your student doesn’t end up on a path to taking algebra in 7th (ie , they don’t take advanced math in ES and/or pass the tests), then they can still choose to take honors math in 7th and then honors algebra in 8th and then rigorous math in high school. This isn’t as advanced of a path, but it’s still advanced. point being, students with zero aap or advanced anything in ES can still pursue an advanced path come middle and high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems crazy to make a decision in 2nd grade as to a child's entire math track for the next 10 years.

Adv Math has nothing to do with second grade. Our school puts new kids in adv math yearly based on Iready.